Looking for help. Daughter has 4.58 W(will probably go up to 4.63 or so after second semester of junior year is factored in) and 3.95 UW will be around top 5% in her class. Has a SAT score of 2370 and PSAT score of 1500 (am hoping she will be National Merit Semi Finalist). However she does not want to apply to Ivies but go one level lower. She is pretty stubborn, smart does not give herself credit for being smart enough, probably prefer an independent minded student body, would not mind either suburban or city atmosphere but not rural. Would like a pretty and Non commuter campus. She wants the coast. Our preference is Bay area, near LA , New York /Boston or Washington DC as we have family within a few hours of those spots. She eventually wants to be a Physician but is planning on going with Comp Sci as a Major or Minor with Pre Med courses or vice versa. We are a single income family with around 150K saved for her college and can fund some more from yearly disposable income thinking total of 200K as we have another daughter that we plan to spend similar for . We know we will not get too much Fin aid since I make too much for aid. The schools she has right now on her radar are Wellesley and Barnard. Could folks please suggest options for schools a level below the Ivies and also mention if any of those are likely to give merit especially for girls doing comp science. We are debating about spending the money on undergrad since she is likely to go Post grad so we will probably present her a choice around decision time so she can decide if she wants to spend her money on undergrad or post grad. We are in TX so looking at A & M, UT and Alabama honors as safeties. Has OK EC’s volunteering, has been teaching kids for the past few years, Junior year summer is doing a research project at one of the UT’s through the Welch foundation. Thank You very much for any thoughts and suggestions.
In the LA area, consider USC, Occidental and Scripps… Scripps is a women’s college, but part of the Claremont Consortium which includes Harvey Mudd… which would give her access to excellent computer science.
In Massachusetts/Boston area, consider Tufts, Brandeis, Boston University, Northeastern, Smith, Mt. Holyoke
In DC area, consider George Washington & American.
In the same way that I would suggest that a top applicant not focus on “Ivies” as a group, I would also suggest that a top applicant not rule them out as a group. They have a very different feel from one another.
I would suggest the same thing to her that I would suggest to someone who only wants to consider Ivies. Instead of considering what schools she will and will not consider, I suggest focussing on what she wants to get out of her experience and then work to identify the schools that fit those criteria.
Questions to consider
Is the premed her primary focus, and the CS secondary, are they co-equal, or is CS primary? It sounds like she has broad interests.
Which schools have the highest medical school placement rates? Highest average MCAT scores? GPAs?
Note: You have to ask about the percent of admitted freshman premeds that are admitted to medical schools. Some schools claim that almost all of their premed graduates are admitted to medical school, but do it by basically forcing all but the top 25 percent of premeds to drop the major, so the percent of premed grads admitted to medical school is high, but the percent of freshman premeds admitted to medical school is poor.
Does the school have a research hospital on campus? This can make for better research opportunities and opportunities for experiences.
How good/extensive is the advising for premed students. Expert advice can avoid many critical mistakes.
How good/extensive is students’ access to research opportunities?
How good/extensive is students’ access to medical-related work experiences (EMT, nursing, etc.)?
How good/extensive are student opportunities for medical-related volunteer work?
Does the school have a large premed program that will allow her to have a circle of friends who are sharing that common experience and support one another?
@Much2learn : Thank You. Have been trying to get that through to her but having some difficulty. Hopefully have a little while to work on it and can convince her to try it. Becoming a physician is her goal. The comp science is more of a back up in case the physician does not pan out for some reason.
It is common for top girls to underestimate their achievements and think they aren’t really qualified for top schools. In contrast, boys who are relatively less prepared and capable are more likely to think that 5 minutes after they submit their college application Harvard’s President Faust will be calling them personally and begging them to attend.
One key thing to understand is that in top programs everyone is bright, but most are not super geniuses. Success will be determined more by a student’s ability to be organized, put in a lot of effort, and be invested in what they are doing.
My D1 is a somewhat similar student. She is in CS, not premed, but before college I talked with her a lot about the fact that there was no shame in trying something difficult and failing. The shame is in being too afraid to try something difficult because you are afraid you might fail. We assured her that we were proud of her for trying something difficult, and that would not change even if she failed every single class. She is now two years into this adventure, and they have been two amazing years for her. She is having the time of her life, and getting better opportunities than she ever imaged.
This anecdote is not intended to suggest that a top school is right for everyone, because that is not true. It is right for some and not for others. What I am suggesting is that your D should not be so quick to sell abilities short. She may find that, if she is determined and willing to work hard, that she can achieve more than she realizes. However, fear of failure can prevent her from finding out what she is really capable of.
@Much2learn *cough cough definitely not sexist at all *cough It goes down to the student themselves, some are bright and confident others are bright and not as egoistic as others(your daughter). This can be a good thing at times but hopefully she will be able to give herself the credit that she deserves for all of her hard work. But come on it isn’t like all guys think they are amazing and all girls don’t, there are confident guys and girls.
@TryntoFigureOut Your daughter is extremely humble and has the potential of getting into ivies for sure. That being said you do not have to chose ivies as they are often costly, it is undergrad, and you have another daughter.
Here are some schools that are excellent in computer science, the list starts with ones that may be considered ivy level
Cal Tech, Georgia tech, MIT, UC Berkeley,
UC San Diego, UCLA, UIUC, USC, Purdue
UC Irvine, UC Davis
Just throwing some names out there. I believe your daughter can get into some(hopefully all) of the colleges on 1 and she can probably get into all of the other colleges with the possibility of scholarship money at some. Good Luck!
It’s hard to give suggestions without knowing what your daughter wants to focus on (CS or premed), how big of a school she wants, and whether she wants a tech school or something more diverse.
Definitely look at the super-reach schools (Ivies, Caltech, MIT, Stanford, Williams) if she likes them regardless of the difficulty of admission. The kids who get in are not all super geniuses like I thought at first so it’s worth a try. The $80 application fee is nothing in the grand scheme of college tuition I was in the same boat last year and almost didn’t apply to the school I’m going to be attending next year because of the sub 10% acceptance rate.
Tech schools like MIT, Harvey Mudd and Caltech are great for CS but might be more difficult for premed. Top UCs are a great deal for California residents but might not be the best for OOS or pre med because of how large and strapped for money they are. I know USC gives full/half merit scholarships for NM finalists so that may be worth looking at! Hopefully that was helpful!
If she is looking at Wellesley and Barnard, she should also consider Bryn Mawr and the other colleges in the tri-co (Haverford and Swarthmore)–all in suburban Philadelphia.
@maria93101 : She is gonna do CS as undergrad. However she ultimately wants to become a doctor. Right now it looks like CS will be the major with Pre Med courses. However she may also go the route of doing some other Major like Bio and minor in Comp Sci. The leaning is towards the former but may change to the latter. She is not wanting to apply to the Ivies and I am trying to get her to change that. I do not want her to reject the schools just because they happen to have selective admissions and she thinks that the kids there will be too brilliant for her. We can easily afford the application fees , she knows that the issue is she is worried getting in may force her to think about going there and not applying is an easier option as it does not force a decision. She does not want very large schools and wants more diverse schools than tech, she has a range of interests, loves music, current affairs and history too. Thank You all for the help, really appreciate all the comments.
@petengineer “…it isn’t like all guys think they are amazing and all girls don’t, there are confident guys and girls.”
That is completely true. I am just saying that there is a clear tendency in that direction, which is something to be aware of when a girl has very strong achievements but thinks she is just not good enough.
For example, after the SAT exam, D1’s boyfriend asked her how it went. She said she thought it went okay. Then he began bragging about how the test was too easy and not very challenging for him. He lectured her for an hour about how he had deftly avoided the pitfalls, recognized the college board’s tricks, and cracked even the most difficult problems in seconds. He explained that he could teach her how to do better the next time.
When the scores came back, he had an 1850 score, and she had a 2340.
For CS and premed and women’s school, she should look at Mills. A friend of mine chose Mills this year for the consortium-type agreements at various area schools. There has been a change in leadership at Mills and it looks promising. In addition to its own programs, it offers cross-registration at Berkeley and sits in the lap of Silicon Valley.
Also, she should look at Santa Clara for coed schools that are often overlooked.
On the East Coast, she may want to look at Agnes Scott as they offer the sort of gentle guidance of a small LAC with cross registration with Emory–with the CDC–and there’s a CS agreement between the schools too. Agnes Scott is to my mind hidden gem. Not on many people’s radar, solid in all ways, great traditions, gorgeous campus, not political.
People have mentioned Smith and Holyoke and Bryn Mawr, but there’s also Amherst at the 5 colleges, which may be more her speed. It’s not a women’s school, but it tends to attract people who sound like your daughter (I’m going on very little information so forgive me if I’m way off!) The 5-colleges offer a lot. You daughter doesn’t sound very political and of the 5 colleges to my mind at least, Amherst is one of the least political of the bunch.
@intparent : Thank You. That is one of the things we are considering. Hopefully once she is back and we get a list together we will try to figure out a way to find out how many of the colleges have grade deflation that would cost her going forward and eliminate those colleges. I was going to rule out some of the pure tech schools as I did think that at those schools we would have the grade issue in addition to not allowing her full opportunity to explore her interests. Thank You all for the other suggestions.
Much to learn
Agree that some girls undervalue their achievements but certainly so do some boys.
I have a son and a daughter and do not feel it is is appropriate to make such sweeping generalizations based on one individual.
That’s all. Thanks
Good luck on your daughters college journey.
@mothersv “I …do not feel it is is appropriate to make such sweeping generalizations based on one individual.”
First I recommend you read this comment
“@petengineer “…it isn’t like all guys think they are amazing and all girls don’t, there are confident guys and girls.””
@much2learn “That is completely true. I am just saying that there is a clear tendency in that direction, which is something to be aware of when a girl has very strong achievements but thinks she is just not good enough.”
Also notice that the anecdote was preceded by the words, “For example.” That means I am offering it as an example, not suggesting that it is evidence. A significant amount of research has been done of the subject though. Here are a few links to information on that subject.
For grade deflation and premed, a friend of mine’s daughter was shocked at Princeton. FYI. She had a very hard time getting into med school despite being (obviously) an excellent student. Daughter had been accepted undergrad at Yale and Princeton. Mom says that if she’d known how impossible it would be to fight the grade deflation at Princeton and how this would affect her entrance to med school, she would have guided her daughter to start at a nursing program in an undistinguished school (I won’t name the specific school but it was one I’d never heard of at all). There she could have gotten her clinical work, her prereqs for premed and would have been the star of the school.
I think that Mom was exaggerating, but only slightly otherwise she wouldn’t have named a specific nursing school. She’d clearly thought of this in detail.
The larger point of this is that many people assume that the more prestigious the school, the easier the entrance to med school. Not necessarily so.
I was in the same boat last year and almost didn’t apply to the school I’m going to be attending next year because of the sub 10% acceptance rate.