I did know that they are under the same umbrella university … just curious what first-hand experience has been - this is very helpful - thanks!
One is an LAC and one a research U. They offer different stuff. But registration across campuses is possible and people go back and forth. Barnard is much smaller, and more intimate, but it’s just across the street from CU and there’s an open gate between them and a dedicated cross walk. Many of CUs other sections are much further away, if you think about it. The athletic fields are way uptown, for example, at the tip of Manhattan and you get there by subway or by special shuttle buses. (Of course the teams also practice in the many parks around the campus.)
My gut feelingi s that CU is so much bigger, and offers departments that Barnard doesn’t. This means that more people go in that direction than toward Barnard. Again, it’s mainly a factor of probability than quality of classes or other perceived or real barriers IMO.
But if a person is premed, for example, that person could choose Barnard organic chem or CU organic chem, either one. It depends on their goals.
My daughter didn’t fall for Barnard because of Columbia, but we definitely saw the relationship, the proximity, the campus, etc. as a huge bonus. Most of the classes she is interested in seem to be at Barnard, and as I said she is currently in an all-girls school so quite comfortable, but is looking forward to having young men in class and around campus.
The question was prompted because we are continuing our search for back up schools should Barnard not work out, and in looking at Wellesley there was a comment on the board that Wellesley has a good relationship with MIT and Brandeis, but that Barnard/Columbia isn’t the same. That’s the word of a Wellesley student, so wanted reaffirmation from insiders. Our tour guide definitely painted a relaxed, cooperative relationship, which we found exciting.
Trying not to think too much about how perfect the school is!
I can’t remember if you’re only looking East Coast, but if she loves Barnard, she may love Scripps. The consortium there is active and the schools are quite close.
A safety might be Mills, where you can cross register with Berkeley. The distance between schools is greater there, but the Bay Area has so much going on. She might really enjoy it. A friend of mine, her daughter is there now. Very understanding school. Lovely to look at.
Agnes Scott has cross registration with Emory fyi and that school offers so much. It’s one of my “hidden gems” favorites, everything from the astrophysics major to the Scottie dog mascot.
As always, great suggestions! After being away for dance, she really wants to stay in New England, so those are out. But I LOVE your creative thinking - please keep any thoughts and suggestions coming!! CUNY & SUNY didn’t seem like a match either : ( SL too staid if they don’t go into the city …
If she’s interested in Dance, though SL is supposed to be great for that. She might just love that program.
It is more than “possible” – it is unified registration system. All students have access to complete course listings, and when they enroll in standard courses, they simply choose the course that they want and sign up. With a few exceptions, there is no special procedure to follow, and Barnard does not limit the number or type of Columbia courses that its students can take. The exception would be Barnard’s first year writing courses and Columbia’s lower level core classes; and some courses with limited enrollment, such as senior seminars geared to students within a specific major. Many courses are considered interschool – and the same course may be offered some semesters at Barnard, and some at Columbia.
Columbia puts more restrictions on its students about taking Barnard courses for satisfying major requirements, in some majors. But some majors are coordinated/shared departments, or are housed primarily one one campus or another.
My daughter would not have been able to meet Barnard’s distribution requirements without Columbia courses, simply because of scheduling issues. Barnard’s requirements have been relaxed somewhat since my daughter attended, so maybe now it’s a little easier.
You can view the course directoroy here: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/bulletin/uwb/
You can browse by subject or department. If you browse by subject, you will come to page that list both Barnard & Columbia courses. So for example, if you look up “history” you will see courses listed from both schools - the ones with a “BC” prefix are Barnard. You will also find courses with a “UN” prefix that are given at Barnard.
When you click on the link to each course description, you will see that the list which students each course is open to.
re #22: "…in looking at Wellesley there was a comment on the board that Wellesley has a good relationship with MIT and Brandeis, but that Barnard/Columbia isn’t the same. "
FWIW, Wellesley was my oldest daughter’s “runner-up”. D2 didn’t apply because it didn’t make the dance cut. But a Wellesley student posted on my CC dance thread that she was dancing at Harvard, so there may be some angles we were unaware of. (But then going 40 minutes each way to get to a dance class doesn’t seem appealing…)
It seems to me that Wellesley/MIT is nothing like Columbia/Barnard. It is probably more like Bryn Mawr/Penn, I think. (Whereas Bryn Mawr/ Haverford, is more like Barnard/Columbia, relation-wise). Their relationship may be “better”, but is proportionally much more social than academic. Versus intertwined.
There is nowhere near the same level of cross-registration. There is a bus, but IIRC they are 40 minutes apart, not across the street. And then you have to deal with the bus schedules (and some additional time getting from your destinations to/from the bus stop). Academic calendars and schedules do not coordinate perfectly (at the time, anyway).
Wellesley students DO go regularly to MIT parties . But tthe the bus that takes them there is known, by all apparently, as "the “**** truck”. My D1 objected to the connotations.
Also, at that time anyway, Wellesley was no backup to Barnard admission-wise.
Other than the social aspect, my D1 thought Wellesley was wonderful. As did I. Though in retrospect a larger school would have suited her better.
Regarding Sarah Lawrence- which I grew up 2 miles way from, FWIW-
The situation there is probably a lot like at Wellesley, or Bryn Mawr.
if students mostly go into the city on weekends, what’s wrong with that?
It’s not like they cant go in any other time. They are students, they have stuff to do. Like study…
I’m sure if they score tickets to a good play on tdf they will go in on a weeknight. But that won’t happen all the time because they have stuff to do, right where they are.
However, they don’t have to go all the way into NYC to do something a bit different. They can, and do, walk to downtown Bronxville, which has a very nice downtown area. I have to say though. I sometimes see a troop of hippy-ish dressed students traipsing into Bronxville and they look really odd there- out of place. Bronxville is the kind of tony suburb a lot of them probably grew up in. My idea of college is you go to a different environment. But that’s me.
Now, if you are economically encumbered, you might go to the city less often. Because everything is expensive on a student budget. But other than that, nothing is stopping you. Bronxville is one of the best train commutes in Westchester. And one of the fastest drives in, too. The train is expensive for a student, but I think somebody said the college runs some buses? Though I imagine the bus schedules may not always coincide with your plans…
They are in a (walkable) suburb. Lots of people living in suburbs do not often go into the city. Because there is enough for them to do right there. I live in a suburb too, and I don’t go into the city that much. And when I do go, it is usually to do things that most college students can’t afford to do.
Finally, their dirty little secret.: Sarah Lawrence is actually in… Yonkers. Only some small part of the entryway is physically in Bronxville. Not that it matters.
The school is very small.
The issue isn’t that they only go on the weekends. The issue is that SL students don’t bother going, even though there’s a free van to take them, at least that’s what my tour guide told us during our three hour tour . . . .urged incoming students to take the bus at least once or twice, like that would be a big commitment . . . and they wouldn’t otherwise do it. @monydad
As far as the student budget, while this is true on the surface, only is the city expensive if you don’t know how to get things done for cheap. The Met, where the SL van drops them is pay what you wish. You can pay as little as a dollar. The same with several other museums: the AMNH the new Breuer, the Cloisters. There are free days when the museums are free. There is TONY online mgazine that lists several free events every day. There are rush tickets for students and free events in the parks, at Lincoln Center, and all over the other boroughs. There are event still 99 cent pizzas and Gray’s Papaya and food trucks for cheap eats. Etc. Etc. Etc.
All I can tell you is my daughter lived in NYC and told us she found it very expensive, on her student budget. Even though she had a part time job.
Re: SL, I thought Calmom’s son said they went in on weekends, though not always. If I read wrong, sorry. But if they aren’t going in, they must have done the cost/benefit analysis (where cost includes elapsed time) and decided they’d be better off not going in. Just like so many suburbanites do. After all, they are smart kids. They can figure that out. That implies there is enough for them to do right there, or close by. Which is a good thing.
But there are no obstacles preventing them from going in, if they feel otherwise.
The train station is a 15 minute walk from the campus. But I imagine lots of people have cars, so they often get a lift. On the other hand, the Bronxville movie theater is a 5 minute walk from the train station, which is a lot faster than going to NYC…
Wait it can’t be 5 minutes from the station, the theater is like across the street.
Re SLC – historically there has been a lot of tension between the Bronxville community and students --very apparent to my son when walking around the area or going into shops. I don’t know if anything has changed in the years since he was there – he attended from 2001-2003 … but definitely students did not feel welcome.
SLC is quirky – I think it makes sense for a student who knows that they want that environment, but probably not a good choice for a kid just looking for a safety. My son thought SLC was exactly what he wanted – he wanted small school, small classes, flexible course requirements - but he outgrew it pretty fast.
Now that you mention it, I heard there was some tension too (but forgot). The townspeople there are definitely cut from a different cloth. Which I alluded to previously.
Nevertheless, the students do go down there. I’ve seen them. Multiple times. Particularly heading for this one bar, that’s sort of on the way to the main drag.
They stick out.
Cultural issues aside, probably the students tend to come there in largish groups, so take multiple tables, and just hang out for long periods of time and spend like no money. Which would be an issue for a lot of the bars/restaurants there. Just speculating.
@monydad very helpful insights into Wellesley - you are a 2-for-1 resource! To clarify, I didn’t mean Wellesley was a back up for Barnard as in a ‘safety’ school. Going through this for the first time, my understanding is that there are lots of reasons why someone does not get into a school like Barnard, and we are not approaching it as though she has to lower her hopes to all safeties. So from an admissions acceptance rate standpoint, Wellesley is fractionally easier. Scores are comparable. Perhaps what Barnard might not see or need, Wellesley would - we wouldn’t know unless she applied. We have maintained a formula of 3-3-3 (reach-target-safety), although I HATE those terms or ways of viewing colleges that offer so much. Her order of preference does not in fact match that order - in other words, she does not feel the ‘reaches’ on her list are necessarily her top choices. And the list is very organic, schools are moving off and on depending on conversations and tours. Wellesley was a very recent add - we’ll see after this weekend how it fares in her eyes!
And nothing wrong with SL students not heading into the city regularly, it’s just that my D is excited about NYC and would like to be with others that see the proximity as an opportunity. I’m sure the local town is great, but she would look at the school because of it’s commute to the city, and if no one is going, it loses that appeal. I’ve heard similar things about Fordham - Rose Hill.
IIRC, Wellesley students mostly confined their Boston trips to the weekends as well. D1 said the campus felt depleted on the Saturday she stayed over.
I’d guess you’ll find the same at Bryn Mawr…
And certainly at Vassar, NYC is pretty far away. Ditto Bard, probably even moreso.
Connecticut College even moreso.
My guess is she likely won’t be getting into the big city that much more if she attends any of these other schools.
Though Wellesley they go in more than the others, no doubt. but my question would be, is that a good thing. Because they are going because there is inadequate social life for them at Wellesley, so they have to go chasing it.
And I get what you’re saying about the balanced application plan. If my D2 didn’t get into Barnard ED she was going to also apply to Vassar, which was considered a tougher admit at the time. I didn’t mention that before because the title of your thread was “suggested safety schools” so I only listed the schools that were not considered tougher or equally tough admits.
There are some other schools that were tougher admits that I left out in my prior post about suggestions, for the same reason. When I get a chance I’ll go back & look for them.
Sorry @monydad - you’re absolutely right! Yes, I was looking for safeties and got sidetracked with lots of great suggestions.
Would you mind sharing how many schools you had on your back up list?
Sounds like your list may have been similar (or else I’m blending @calmom info : )
Vassar
Connecticut
Skidmore
Others?
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/3488462#Comment_3488462
Hmm, I guess she was going to apply to GWU, after all. That’s odd, I remember she didn’t really like it when she visited. But maybe she just didn’t have enough of a list.
She was not overly geographically constrained, it just turned out that way. She was an excellent student, and would have been competitive for most of the more selective schools on my linked thread. She had individual reasons for not wanting to apply to some of the other schools. Though I not longer recall what they all were. I recall she didn’t want to go to school in the south. And IIRC she wasn’t confident Cornell had enough dance for her (though, as things turned out, it did), and she thought it was too big.
In retrospect, now that it’s all done, a university-sized school was better, for all my kids. But that’s hindsight. Barnard is effectively bigger via Columbia, its size was not an issue there. But D1 attended an LAC in a more isolated location and eventually disliked it there. YMMV.
D2 also didn’t really care about being in a city. She lived in and just outside NYC, so the city was no big deal aspect to her, either way. Again it just turned out that way. The biggest deal for her were the dance programs.
She didn’t really have a safety, per se. At her Skidmore interview, the adcom, after seeing her transcript & SATs, was basically in full sales mode, he was practically salivating. Maybe that was just a generic sales pitch, but we believed him. If Barnard had rejected her, she might have thrown in a real safety, like one of the SUNYs. But it never got to that point. And if we discussed it I no longer remember.
Looking at your link @monydad, it looks like our lists are very similar - although we aren’t including any south of DC or west of NY. Saw Skidmore and didn’t care for it, so never interviewed, but it would have been a nice safety to have - great location. We’ve got about 6-7 schools on the list now, so I think we’re set. Enjoyed our visit to Wellesley but in the end it didn’t seem like a fit.