Suggestions for Best Universities?

Parents Forum
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<p>My oldest is strong in languages and classics, and is interested in doing language translation, international studies, classics, or possibly international relations. Are there other suggestions for a very strong humanities type? Tippy top scores in 2 of the 3 SAT sections and weaker in math. </p>

<p>Suggestions?</p>

<p>We have been looking at universities all summer and are looking at these potentials. HELP US cut them down! Please!</p>

<p>Cost is a factor. We are unlikely to get much financial aid, but unable/unwilling to go into debt. It has to be doable (we are very frugal). We do have an asset to liquidate that won't cover all four years unless we are very particular, but it could if we are careful. Merit scholarships might happen, especially if summer math drilling helps improve that score (just a tad under 2100 now with one take - all because of math!)</p>

<p>International possibilities:
St. Andrews, Scotland
McGill
University of Windsor
University of British Columbia
(Possibly somewhere in England -can't decide!)</p>

<p>Big State U (possible large scholarship there)
Brandeis
Carthage (if got language scholarship)
Pomona
UNC-Chapel Hill
UMass-Amherst
Middlebury
Tufts
Johns Hopkins (maybe easier to get into Humanities?)
Miami Ohio
UT-Austin IF can do Plan II
UV</p>

<p>Reaches:
Stanford
Brown
Harvard?</p>

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<p>How can I edit this post? I would like to and my edit button seems to be gone!</p>

<p>Nothing but computer issues today!</p>

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<p>I think you are only able to edit within a set time frame after posting.
Just add your new info.</p>

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<p>You have a number of OOS publics as well as a schools that give no merit aid and schools that do not give much merit aid. Can you pay full freight for those? </p>

<p>Without knowing your bottom line price point, it is hard to offer suggestions. But since finances are a consideration, I would suggest you look on the financial aid section of this forum for the thread about guaranteed merit awards and see if any schools there would work. These merit awards are based on strong admissions credentials, and do not take your income or assets into consideration. Perhaps there is something there that will have the majors and the correct price point.</p>

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<p>Thanks, Thumper. How do I find out which schools give no merit aid or not much merit aid? Is there a list of those schools?</p>

<p>I do not believe we will pay $200,000 for a degree, but the asset should cover at least half of that. We all prefer to remain as debt-free as possible. </p>

<p>I wish we had a lasting edit button. Many sites do and that would be great!</p>

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<p>Which state are you from? University of Michigan and UC Berkeley have superb Classics programs- JHU is very pricey.</p>

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<p>Yours is not a good list for merit aid. The schools on your list do not have to offer money for good students to go to their school. Start with this extremely helpful list:</p>

<p><a href=“Colleges and Universities That Award Merit Aid - Graphic - NYTimes.com”>Colleges and Universities That Award Merit Aid - Graphic - NYTimes.com;

<p>If you need merit aid you might need to shift your focus away from the obvious names. I know we have.</p>

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<p>Dickinson in PA</p>

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<p>The best school is the one that fits best. We do not need all of the details but your son needs to figure out what type of school suits him most. Big/small city, big/small school, close/far from home, private/public… Does he want to be the big or small fish in the pond? So many factors- academic, social and financial.</p>

<p>Your son needs to be actively engaged in HIS search. Make lists. Visit schools. Sort according to priorities as perceived now and again in a month or three. Figure out WHY all of the above schools made the list. No need to tell us. Consider post undergraduate plans. More schooling, work? Consider possible majors- there are many he won’t have even thought of until he encounters them in college. Find books in your local library about choosing a college.</p>

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<p>I agree with Wis but this family has also stated that they have financial considerations, will likely not qualify for need based aid, and have an asset that can pay $25,000 per year for four years. Whatever schools they are looking at need to also have the potential to fit their financial criteria.</p>

<p>All of your reach schools give need based aid only. Middlebury gives need based only. Tufts has very very limited merit awards. Ditto Pomona. </p>

<p>Some of your schools do meet full need, but it sounds like you actually don’t HAVE financial need so you need to look for merit aid. </p>

<p>OOS public universities are typically not good choices if you can’t pay the bills. They tend to offer their best merit aid to instate students. </p>

<p>If you can spend $25,000 a year on college, you will need $25,000 to $30,000 worth of merit aid at most of the schools on your list. My opinion is that is going to be hard to come by…but maybe others can chime in on what they know about this list. </p>

<p>You might want to post your question about aid and your school list on the financial aid section of this forum. My guess is there are folks there who might be able to advise you.</p>

<p>Also, each school has a net price calculator on their website. This should give you a ballpark of what you would be estimated to be paying. Do them for each school. I will say…it sounds like you have a significant asset and that could screw the NPC results…but it’s a start.</p>

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<p>I find it ironically amusing that TranquilMind sounds flustered, “Nothing but computer issues today!”</p>

<p>Please pardon my digression.</p>

<p>I noticed that OP started the thread about attending selective/difficult high schools. I would suggest that a big advantage of these schools is the guidance department. Even if you have a personality conflict, they willl have wonderful resources to help build an application list.</p>

<p>I am also confused about why OP only lists vague SAT scores (just under 2100, perhaps something like 750CR/750W/590M?) but does not describe course rigor, GPA, or outside activities. The university list is dominated by highly selective schools that based solely on the ambiguous SAT score are not realistic. </p>

<p>My suggestion is not to cut your list down, but rather to expand it. Pick only two or three from your current list as Reaches but find some Matches and at least a couple good safeties. Remember that a safety has three components: high likelihood/guarantee of admission; affordability either through low COA or guaranteed scholarships; and someplace the student finds desirable for four years of study.</p>

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<p>Thanks PsychoDad for the suggestions. And redpoint, that list is great!</p>

<p>I appreciate all of the suggestions, and am passing them on as well.</p>

<p>rmldad, I’m not sure why you are confused that I am not exceedingly specific about scores, or extracurriculars, though perhaps that is the custom here, and I’ve not been posting long. I was specific enough about the score (and you are close, but higher on CR), and there are several good EC’s, including club founder, another club co-prez, volunteer work, etc. Every course was college level (with college texts) or simply a college class at the university, as that is the deal with this school, so I’d certainly say rigorous. Honestly, I’m just too private to very specifically identify my child or family. </p>

<p>I’m sorry if I have violated some forum custom. That was not my intention. I wanted to give enough information to be helpful without just anyone who knows us (and this site is popular) being able to say, “Oh yeah, that’s X!” </p>

<p>I’m also a bit perplexed as to how my sounding flustered about my computer issues is “ironically amusing”. It sure wasn’t amusing to me! I guess I don’t get it. But then it’s late and I’m too tired to think. </p>

<p>I do really appreciate the advice. I think the safety (or two) and a couple of top dream-probably-impossible-reaches are selected. It’s just the vast potential choices in between, from probable to reach that are still in discussion, I think. And the international factor, which seems to be highly desirable to this kid, who has already traveled a bit. That’s the harder part. </p>

<p>Yes, we will see what the Guidance office has to offer this year, but they don’t do the work for you. They just help along where they can, is my understanding, secondhand, from my kid, who spoke with last year’s seniors.</p>

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<p>Thumper, thanks for the thoughts. Yes, I guess we simply picked all the schools that sounded as if they were strong in the general area of potential majors, without reference to cost. I had read somewhere that a “geographically desirable” student might get merit aid to entice him to go to that distant state school…not true?</p>

<p>Cost is OUTRAGEOUS at some of them, including a really good university in a large city known to market heavily to the kids at this school. I can’t believe it. Maybe we should have just looked at cost first! Anyway, I’m going through the excellent list provided earlier by redpoint. I appreciate all the advice and am eager to hear any more.</p>

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<p>Some schools offer generous classics scholarships. Rhodes college in Memphis comes to mind and they offer generous merit scholarships as well. The Lutheran schools seem to be strong in languages and are also generous with merit aid. You may want to google Lutheran colleges as they have their own website and many are outstanding schools. I don’t know where you are from but I see Carthage is on your list and many are in the Midwest. I have one daughter at Augustana in Rock Island Illinois and another looking seriously at a different Lutheran school.</p>

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<p>These lists may be worth a look for someone who does not find much or any financial aid in the net price calculators, but is not able or willing to pay list price:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-19.html#post16145676[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-19.html#post16145676&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-2.html#post15889078[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-2.html#post15889078&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>TranquilMind - I found irony in your user name indicating tranquility, but your posting indicating frustration.</p>

<p>You don’t need to apologize for withholding information as privacy is certainly important. However, the more information that you provide, the more accurate our advice can be. There is an enormous difference between an applicant with 2100 SAT who is Valedictorian, Intel finalist and 12 AP classes as oppoed to an applicant with 2100 SAT but has a 3.4 GPA, few APs and no meaningful activities. The former student would be strongly competitive at all the schools on your list while the latter student would likely be a long shot at all of them.</p>

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<p>In addition to your identified reaches without additional information in regard to your child’s academics I would suggest that your list has at least 6 more reaches within it.
Your best state schools, liberal arts colleges likely ranked in the high 30s plus who are generous with merit aid would be the most logical places to be researching. I have no awareness of the international possibilities. I believe McGill would be total cost in the low $30,000’s depending upon major.</p>

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<p>It’s okay to have a reachy list if you have one (or better two) safeties that you know you can afford that you will be perfectly happy to attend. My younger son had similar interests (though no talent in languages he did have four years of Latin.) His SAT score was also brought down by math, but his CR was a 790. He had 7 APs with 5s on all the ones taken before applications. His grades were in the B+/A- range. I believe he came off very well on the soft parts of the application (LORs, essays, activities). He got into Tufts, U of Chicago (EA), and Vassar, but not into the more selective schools on his list. He got offered a half tuition merit scholarship at American. </p>

<p>Have you run the financial calculators? Though I believe if you have an asset you can liquidate they’ll probably expect you to be full pay, at least until most of that money is gone.</p>

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<p>Tranquil Mind I have sent you a pm with some more info but I just want to give my experience since many posters have posted that OOS at state schools do not receive merit scholarships. My experience has been exactly the opposite. My DS is on a full merit ride from Ohio State. His has three scholarships- the National Buckeye which was awarded for being in the top 40% of his high school class and an SAT (CR & M)over 1220(something quiet attainable although I think you now need a 1280) one for his PSAT score (he did well on it) and another one for a scholarship competition that involved recommendations and writing six short essays. (Frankly we were shocked when he won that one but as they say “if you don’t apply you can’t win”.) DS had received other great merit scholarship from out of state schools. Fast forward to present day and my rising senior has already applied this summer to two OOS state colleges and has been accepted. One has given her 2 great merit scholarships and the other has told her she will receive a merit award from them. Like you I protect my children’s privacy here but if I recall correctly her grades are similar to your daughter’s and her SAT is just under 2000. Again both colleges that have accepted her have told her that she was an attractive candidate because they are trying to increase students from our state attending those colleges. Like you are learning it simply takes research and work in learning about these opportunities. Although posters here on CC can help you really have to make the contacts with admission staff. For the two schools where my DD has been accepted; she contacted the reps in April and met with them when they were in town; she told them she needed merit money to attend and would she be in the running for it. After orally giving her stats they both told her that she would be accepted if she applied and that she would receive merit which made an oos state college affordable for us. As others have told you; it is important that your student love all the colleges on her list including her safeties. The colleges that my DD has been accepted to are her safeties but she loves them and would be happy to attend them. </p>

<p>Now you have asked “how do I find which schools give merit money?” Here is how I do it:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Go to Collegedata.com and enter the schools name in the “college quick finder” box on the far right of the page. Using Johns Hopkins as an example; the next page would give you the “college match results” On this page under “financial friendliness” will be listed the percent of need met (this is relevant for those looking for financial aid) the percent of merit aid awarded (this is relevant for you and me since we don’t qualify for fin. aid and need merit aid) and the avg. amount of student debt at graduation (when you see a high number you know the college is not generous with any kind of aid). Again using Johns Hopkins as an example you see it only has 6% in merit aid; however you want to test this number even further because some colleges will award a student merit aid as part of their financial aid package. The number you are really trying to find is the percent of merit aid awarded to students who had no financial need (again this means you and me.) Click on the colleges name to get to the college’s page and click on the tab on top named “money matters”. In the section called "profile of 20xx Financial aid look at the freshmen section and scroll to the bottom in that section called “merit-based gift”. That is the number you want and for Johns Hopkins you would see that only “17 (1.3%) of freshmen had no financial need and received merit aid, average amount $29,310”. What this means is that this school really shouldn’t be on your daughter’s list because it is not a generous school. Instead compare this to Hendrix College (a school I love that is part of the colleges that change lives) which gives 31% of freshmen with no-need a merit scholarship averaging $20K. So the way we do it in our house is my daughter will tell me schools she may like and I do this money test and then give her the ones that we can afford. From there we visit the affordable schools and she makes contact with the reps for those schools. </p></li>
<li><p>Another place to find out about a school’s merit aid is by examining it’s Common Data Set. You can enter those terms on a college’s website search box or good the college’s name and the term “common data set”. Section H-2 (look for financial section if I have the number wrong) gives you all kinds of good data relevant to money. Look at the box listing “Awards for student that are non-need based.” It will give you the number of scholarships and amount of scholarships given for merit. </p></li>
<li><p>Another place to look for merit scholarship is the college website itself. Enter the term “merit scholarship” to see what the school offers. (I will finish this post in a second one because it is getting kind of long).</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Continuing my post from above:
3. Click on the result for freshmen students. If you would have simply done that you right away would have learned that “Pomona does not offer merit scholarships.” which is in the first paragraph of their financial aid page. Thus Pomona can’t be in the running for your daughter because it is not affordable to you. i am sorry if I come across a bit snippy in this part of my post but I am getting frustrated with posters lately on CC who have the same situation as yours and could have found the answer really easily as in the case of Pomona College. I know your DD is your first child applying to college but there really is not easy way of doing it to answer your financial question. It takes work and as my older child said when he was applying to college “my mom got a ph.d. in college admission with all the research she did that summer”. Where it is unclear with the college about merit scholarships; then I suggest you have your DD write the admission rep and inquire about merit scholarships. The second question always out of my DD’s mouth when meeting a rep is “what kind of merit aid do you offer for a student like me (she gives a bit of info about herself)?” Sometimes merit aid may not be on a college’s website so it is important to ask. For example my DD learned that at SMU just about every student accepted to the engineering school receives a merit scholarship and that SMU gives additional merit aid to females wanting to major in mechanical engineering because they want to increase enrollment in those two areas. These scholarships were not on any SMU website that is why it is important to ask. Also ask if merit scholarships can be stacked. Stacking can make a college affordable. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Another place to look for merit aid is at listings by other people. Bob Wallace here on CC always does a list. The Collegiate Blog has another list. Also look at meritaid.org. Read Lynn O’Shaughnessy’s book “The College Solution” and everything on her website. She told of checking meritaid.org and finding a scholarship listed for science students at a college her son had applied to. She had him complete the application which took only one hour and he received an additional $5K scholarship from that college. </p></li>
<li><p>Look at your DD’s email this summer. I bet with her SAT score some colleges have sent her app fee waivers and given her an expedited application with a merit scholarship offer. My DD looked those over and found a school she liked and use the special app to apply. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>I know it might seem overwhelming but go through those steps. You are right- you need to figure out the financial picture first before your daughter applies. Have her come up with her list and test if for financial affordability. Go back to her with your list of what is affordable. My DD and I did that throughout the year and so by June she had her college list. She has been working on her applications and has 4 submitted so far and has another 4 in the drafting stage for submission in mid Aug and she will do the final 4 in September. (those schools have later deadlines). For other posters reading this thread I recommend following this schedule. It makes for a very calm house during the application process. Now for her brother we were not on that schedule since he was our first so I put in a ton of time figuring out scholarships etc over the summer of his rising senior year while he worked on his common app and essay. By September and October he had his list and he was then easy for him to complete his apps. He ended up with close to $750k in merit money from 9 colleges and he was not the valedictorian and his SAT was not over 2000. He applied to schools where he was an attractive candidate and the schools gave merit. I spent many nights up late doing this research because there was no easy answer. </p>

<p>My DS loves his school and he will graduate this May debt-free with happy parents who paid very little for his education. Since my DS is an international relations major I highly recommend you have your daughter look at Ohio State. They have an great ir department including the John Glen School of Public Policy and this summer my DS is at their language institute in Germany improving his German. (We had to pay for his summer tuition but that was okay with us because we had not had to pay for tuition for 4 years). Your daughter would qualify for the National Buckeye Scholarship which would take a big chunk out of the tuition bill. </p>

<p>Good luck; I know it can be tough but with putting the time and research in you can come up with an affordable list.</p>