<p>MomofWildChild is right about Rice. I wanted to apply there last year as a double major for violin and psych, but none of the violin faculty there allow their students to double major (unless you're sneaky about it, that is.)</p>
<p>So... I ended up withdrawing my application and cancelling the audition.</p>
<p>Imma, My son (oboe/composition/government) was asking the same questions as you are last year. Although he applied and was accepted to Thornton School of Music at USC, Indiana SM which he considered strong music schools (some of the best), after emailing friends at both places in composition, both said that they had to really forgo further study on their instrument. You can't be accepted into composition without auditioning on an instrument as well as sending in compositions. The music programs were focused. USC was still in the running because he knew it was possible to extend his studies there after "interviewing" last summer with a lady who had been in music and medicine. College of Wooster seemed to allow study to be extended into other fields. It was more flexible. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to visit so in the end he was uncertain about the school even though they were the best corresponders of the group. Bard he visited and loved the environment. Bard College offers liberal arts and music. He might have really been interested in them but the financial aid in the end wasn't as good as USC or Indiana. He chose Lawrence University (his first choice all along) because it seems to do everything. It's a liberal arts education with a music conservatory. He is accepted into their double degree program. Nothing is set in stone. He can grow at Lawrence, develop his music in both areas and study government. Who knows what lies ahead for him. He's 18! One minute he is making documentaries and scoring the soundtrack and the next he's running for Mayor or playing oboe in some German symphony orchestra. And Imma, I'm sure he wants to buy himself stuff too! Find schools whose major focus is liberal arts, who have BM programs, who are known for good financial aid and merit aid and apply. Be careful that the programs are well integrated. Best of luck. Several are mentioned above. But there are many, many others.</p>
<p>so your son did a TRIPLE major?? Wow he must be a busy kid!</p>
<p>does being a music/social science major also help in terms of grad school opportunities, like law school for instance?</p>
<p>Imma, it's not a triple major. It is BM and a BA. Although he has various interests in music it is only double and it takes an extra year at Lawrence. From my understanding, musical studies can be a stepping stone to other careers. It depends on the individual. That said, pursuing what you love is a great way to begin!</p>
<p>Imma,</p>
<p>Oberlin may be worth considering. My daughter will start there next year. Here are a few things we have learned:</p>
<p>1) The official way to get in to the 5-year double degree program is to apply to both the college and conservatory separately. However, if you only apply to the conservatory and are accepted there, it is reportedly relatively easy to get into the double degree program early in your first year. The same does not work in the other direction, because all conservatory students must get through the audition process. If you feel that you are more likely to be admitted to the conservatory than the college, applying to the conservatory only is not a bad way to go.</p>
<p>2) However, please realize that it is difficult to get accepted to the conservatory as a vocal performance major, particularly if you happen to be a soprano. One of my daughter's friends had what we thought was an outstanding pre-audition CD and she was not even invited for a live audition. Make sure your pre-audition CD is the very best it can be and that it meets all of their requirements.</p>
<p>3) Visit the school if at all possible. While not quite in the middle of a cornfield, it is in a small town in Ohio. That appeals to some people and turns others off entirely. If you need a Starbucks and a Borders within walking distance, look elsewhere. If you are politically conservative, you may also want to look elsewhere. </p>
<p>4) The Early Review program in the conservatory is a wonderful thing if you can have your audition materials ready in time. If they admit you, the decision is non-binding and you don't have to respond until May 1 of the next year. Getting admitted there greatly reduces the stress level at auditions for other schools, usually held in January through March.</p>
<p>5) There is an excellent Early Music program if you like Baroque, Renaissance and Medieval Music.</p>
<p>6) If you happen to be into contradancing, they hold a dance at least monthly with a pickup band featuring conservatory students and community members.</p>
<p>Imma -- BassDad is entirely on target about his description of Oberlin. The 'official' way to get into their 5 year double-degree program is to apply separately to the conservatory and the college (which is a pain in itself!). However, by being admitted to the conservatory, there is the 'back door' option of getting into the college, too, once you get there (that, in itself, leaves a bad taste in my mouth!) IMO, you really have to want to go to Oberlin to do this and be a very disciplined and self-starter type student. The conservatory and the college have their own agendas(with definite tension between them) and the student ends up in the middle! There is virtually no integration of the two degrees and faculty advisor support. My D did not like the whole situation and chose not to go there for that reason. Like overseas, she is in the 5 year double-degree program at Lawrence where there is loads of support (by the administration and faculty) for the double-degree and it is fully integrated into the curriculum. She will receive a BM in vocal performance and a BA in either Art History or Classics. She loves to sing but she also loves Greek art! After looking at loads of places with a combination BM/BA major in mind, Lawrence is the only place that really has its act together. Double-degrees can be done elsewhere (usually all would be in a 5 year time frame) but but expect roadblocks and scheduling difficulties and turf battles!</p>
<p>
I wonder if you looked at Case Western and CIM's program? Case is top notch for Art History; they collaborate with the Cleveland Museum of Art. Case allows any combination of double majors through its single admission process. They offer a joint program with Cleveland Institute of Music (1 block away) for a BMus in performance (although that is a separate application). In dealing with numerous schools for my D this year, Case was among the easiest to deal with. My D will be Case-only, but her lessons and music theory classes will be at CIM. CIM is actually closer to the Case dorms than the engineering quad. The CIM faculty is largely from the Cleveland Orchestra, as is some of Oberlin's.</p>
<p>The BM/BA can be also done at Eastman/URochester but the schools are not as well-integrated (it takes 2 separate applications) and are separated by a 20 minute shuttle bus ride.</p>
<p>WS17 - We did look a bit at Case and CIM but my D did not want to shuttle between places (same at Eastman/URoch and Tufts/NEC). She wanted an integrated college experience where both the music and liberal arts students live and go to school together. Unfortunately, few places accommodate such an objective and there is the hassle of two different application and admission processes.</p>
<p>We looked at "all of the above". D was accepted to the Oberlin double degree program, Case/CIM, BU and Indiana. She decided to go straight vocal performance at Rice. I think Indiana is a workable double degree program. I agree that Case was easy to work with on the logistics of the application and the program. The one that seemed like the biggest hassle was Tufts/NEC.</p>
<p>Again, I want to thank all of you on this thread for your thoughtful input. We found it extremely useful, accurate and often brilliant! S was accepted to 4 prominent double degree programs and 5 comprehensive universities where double majors are possible. We visited all but one (UCSC), and after weighing the information from the admissions officers, academic advisors, students and CC parents and students, he has decided to enroll at UCLA where he not only has exceptional opportunities to grow and perform as a vocal performance major, he can study composition, conducting, film, and he can also use the extensive UC core requirements to explore his other major which though he is leaning toward political science, he is entering as undeclared. He can go to summer school at UCSD (h is a professor, so S grew up on this campus) and the credits will transfer seamlessly to UCLA. </p>
<p>One of the programs he examined was Oberlin. In the end, Oberlin was his second choice because of the unique character of the school, the amazing facilities, the adorable town and the liberal atmosphere. The teachers welcoming and excellent. He had previously been contacted by three professors; he had lessons with two and observed the studio of the third. This was the first conservatory he visited, and he learned an enormous amount about what to ask and look for. At Northwestern, he has a friend who is in their double degree program (clarinet/psychology) and loves it. At Peabody, he ran into a friend from AIMS in Graz (Summer 2003), who was admitted to the masters program and is an expert in interviewing students to find out which professors to seek/avoid. In the middle of all of this, he attended UCLA School of Arts and Architecture's open house. The music department is small, but we had earlier this spring seen an opera produced by the students which was phenomenal (and sold out!). S attended an opera rehearsal, had lessons from both professors with whom he will study, and listened to the academic advisors who praised the intellectual achievements of the music department students. They do not overenroll; they are extremely selective (12 undergraduate vocal students this year--35 in the entire program), the students have to meet UCLA admissions standards, they just hired a famous baritone, with whom S will get to study, and the department is growing. Unique to UCLA is the attitude of teachers. They are extremely collaborative and they encourage students to study with several teachers before making a final selection. In fact, if a student finds that s/he learns well different aspects of his art from more than one teacher, he may alternate, studying for a quarter with one, then changing to get different feedback from another to make sure everything is covered from all the available points of view. The teachers themselves are able to say that they think for a certain skill another person would be an excellent coach at this time, so go study with him or her and then come back. Since the program is still small, everyone is aware of the goals for each student, and the program is constructed to promote maximum growth. In recent years, the students have emerged from this program ready to sing anywhere. </p>
<p>This is an amazing journey, and we are not finished yet. All of us will be involved with our children's path through college (at least providing financial support and emotional support when needed). I am interested in how all your children fare and what they find in these new places so carefully and hopefully sought. </p>
<p>For a new thread: what are your students doing this summer?</p>
<p>Operamom -- Congratulations on your son's decision! If I am correct, he posted his decision 'dilemma' on CC last week and the vibe I got was that he was leaning toward UCLA. It sounds like a fabulous vocal program and, of course, he has the rest of the university at his fingertips. Re: summer activities -- could you post what your son thought of AIMS? My D has been very reluctant to investigate German singing programs - she just hasn't 'gotten into' the language and repertoire at all. She looked briefly at UMiami's Salzburg program and AIMS but thought the latter was for more advanced singers (she is just finishing her freshman year in vocal performance) - although it appears that they have a studio program for younger singers. She attended Tanglewood after sophomore year in hs, Rising Star Singers after junior year, (<a href="http://www.risingstarsingers)%5B/url%5D">www.risingstarsingers)</a>, an excellent program run by two faculty from CCM, and last summer, Opera Theatre and Music Festival of Lucca (also run by CCM). She may go back to Rising Star Singers this summer but she just got into Middlebury's Italian immersion program - so probably will go there. She definitely leans toward the Italian repertoire and after studying in Lucca last summer wants to spend at least a semester, if not a year, in Italy. For all others posting on this thread -- let us know what your kids are doing!</p>
<p>S just received a big scholarship to Tanglewood. He is a graduating senior. They say that though this is a high school program, there are often many graduating seniors there. What do you think? His alternative (i.e. before the scholarship came through) was to take linear algebra at summer school to begin his liberal arts education and lay the foundation for his second major (he has had calculus, and this would be his second year of college level mathematics). Also, has anyone heard of anything from Tanglewood transfering as college credit? It is a high school program, so I can't imagine that there would. I think Tanglewood would be certainly a lot more fun than summer school. Please share what your students who have attended Tanglewood have thought. Did they like it? Did they learn a lot? Would they go back? Is it a good use of time for the summer before college?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Operamom -- Our postings must have crossed! Tanglewood is an amazing program and I would recommend it VERY highly for your S. My D attended a few years ago (MomofWildChild's D was there at the same time!). Although my D went after her sophomore year in hs, there were plenty of students who had just graduated from high school (particularly boys - whose voices and interest in singing mature a bit later than girls!). My only reservation would be the time frame - the program usually ends the middle of August and it could be tight getting from MA back to CA to start UCLA. I believe BU does award college credit for the vocal program -- my D did receive a transcript and grade for the program. However, we have not attempted to transfer any of the credits to her present program. Unless it has changed, there are 75-100 singers in the program but there are loads of other music students attending other programs on the Tanglewood campus. Each student gets free admission to all Tanglewood musical events (go to their website for this summer's schedule). My D absolutely loved it there -- she met loads of people, had fun, did solo recitals, opera scenes, and chorus (in Seji Ozawa Hall!). I'm sure MomofWildChild's mother would agree.....</p>
<p>Sopranomom--yes, Erlkonig is my S. Thank you for your input and encouragement. The response to his post meant a lot and was helpful and supportive of his thought processes in analyzing his options. </p>
<p>Re: AIMS. S met the director when he was 15 and was invited to AIMS at that point. We waited another year, and he attended the Lieder Studio which is, indeed, for the younger students. Still, he was the youngest, and while it provided an enormous jump in skill (both vocal and foreign language) and maturity, it was a major challenge. He had German language instruction every day (1 1/2 hours), and German diction, vocal coaching, vocal lessons, German poetry and studio each twice weekly. He participated in a chorus and a few concerts where he had solos, but they were very careful with him. You are right that the program is primarily for students making the transition from conservatory to career, but he had just performed in the spring with the bass who was his teacher that summer, and he knew people involved with AIMS who thought that, while a stretch, the program would be beneficial. It jump-started his German and gave him an experience of Europe in a lovely, manageable city. He worked very hard, attended almost every class, and grew enormously. It was, however, a poignant time to go because the director who encouraged him was, that summer, diagnosed with inoperable cancer and died just after AIMS ended. The faculty was so professional that the students were mostly unaware of the grief experienced by the staff as this sad event unfolded. It is apparent that the 34 years she devoted to developing the program gave it the momentum to continue without her--it is apparently better than ever! But you should seek information from someone who has attended under the new regime.</p>
<p>Sopranosmom undoubtedly has a better picture of Oberlin's voice, art history and classics departments than I have. Personally, we found the double bass faculty to be very supportive of double majors (I guess they are used to doubling) and the math and physics departments did not seem unreasonable in that regard. </p>
<p>I think you have to be pretty disciplined and self-starting to do a five year double degree program anywhere. </p>
<p>The existence of the "back door" does not bother me. Conservatory students who use it are not depriving someone else of admission to the college. If a conservatory student is not hacking it in the college, they can leave by the back door just as easily.</p>
<p>For reference, we also investigated programs at CIM/CWRU, Peabody/Hopkins, NEC/Tufts, NEC/Harvard, Curtis/Penn, BU, Carnegie Mellon and Rice. Daughter did not apply to all of those and was not accepted at all of the ones she did apply to. Once the smoke settled, Oberlin was her clear best choice.</p>
<p>Agree that Tanglewood is awesome and would be fine for a post-senior year summer. My D (not my Wild Child) loved it and would go back. Not sure about the credit issue. It is truly a magical place with so much exposure to great performances and talented young people and teachers.</p>
<p>sopranosmom: I hope your very talented daughter will reconsider her thinking about German language study. My daughter did a double degree in voice and foreign languages, a MM in vocal performance, and then she went to Germany on a Rotary Fellowship. After three years at the Hochschule in Hamburg in the opera program (very competitive, 350 auditioned, 3 accepted), she was awarded a contract in a small house (C level), which she has now left for a larger house (A level) with wonderful colleagues in a beautiful city. Her Rotary Fellowship was more easily earned because she could function in German, the German was absolutely necessary for admission to the Hochschule, and because so many operas have spoken dialogue, it is important in the theater. All she ever wanted was to be able to make a living singing, and she can do it in Germany, while she could not do it in the U.S. She has since married an EU (not German) national, had her first child (wonderful medical care for very difficult pregnancy and birth), and she is very happy with her life. For a soprano, it is difficult to make it as a performer, and this is the best shot most singers can have. [Many newly hired faculty members in U.S. colleges and universities come directly from singing careers in Germany, and few of them were superstars; but they were performers with lots of experience.] There are other American singers, even sopranos, there, and they do very well in the system, because they are so well prepared as musicians. The men tend to rise in the system more easily, and the talent level in the smaller houses is not so high. When I commented about that, she said American male singers tend to pamper themselves more, and they are not so reliable as European male singers. </p>
<p>In the German houses, most things are done in German, but not all. The warhorses are done in the original language (Verdi, Puccini, etc.) Her first year she did a West Side Story, where the songs were in English, but the dialogue was in German! Italian is easier to pick up if any romance languages have been studied, but Germany requires specific effort for a native English speaker. </p>
<p>The bottom line is this: unless your daugher will soon be winning the MET audition, apprenticeships in major programs (Santa Fe, Chicago, Houston), etc., she will not have a career as a singer in this country. She needs to prepare herself to function where the opportunities are, if she wants to be a professional singer. Italian is necessary, but probably there are fewer Americans singing professionally in Italy than in any state in Germany. </p>
<p>Good luck to her, and to you, too.</p>
<p>lorlelei2702 - I agree with all you say -- I just wish my D did! She is naturally an excellent Italian singer and speaker so gravitates to Italian repertoire. She has sung in German and (rationally) knows she has to learn it and the repertoire but she has been reluctant. However, she was picked for a master class this year for some of Schumann's repertoire and has warmed up to it! I would love for her to do a program in Germany-- I am sure she would love it! Hopefully she will listen to her teacher (and her mother!) as her training progresses.</p>
<p>Operamom -- Thank you for your input on AIMS -- it looks like a great program! I continue to 'nudge' my daughter toward a German program at some point but it looks like this summer will be more Italian!</p>
<p>If anyone has any questions concerning the instrumental part of BUTI (Tanglewood), I'd be glad to help. I probably wouldn't be able to help much in the vocal department, although I do have quite a few vocalist friends who went there and enjoyed it a lot.</p>