Another article about Columbia: http://abc7ny.com/health/columbia-university-making-changes-to-mental-health-resources-after-student-suicides/1734868/
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I wonder if there are any studies that show suicides are more likely to happen at more academically demanding and intense colleges. Does anyone know?
I would question any study that did since students who go to âtopâ schools as opposed to students who go to, say, a local directional are not the same type of student. That doesnât mean the former is more intelligent or a harder worker or anything else of the sort. It just means that there have been very different life circumstances and the two students (and student bodies) arenât comparable.
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Just because a given college is high ranked/has an elite/respectable academic reputation doesnât necessarily mean theyâre high-stress environments for every student who attends/may attend.
Assessments of whether oneâs undergrad campus is high-stress can be variable depending on the given studentâs individual experience even on college environments well known for high-stress/heavy academic competition such as Cornell, Caltech, CMU, Reed, Swat, UChicago, or MIT.
While most alums from Cornell and MIT recounted the academic environment as high stress at times, Iâve also known some who enjoyed it and wouldnât consider their experiences at those campuses high stress such as some HS classmates and 4 relatives who attended CornellâŠincluding one enrolled in A & S as a natural STEM major and another enrolled in the Engineering School.
In short, whether a given campus is high-stress or not is not only dependent on the campus itself, but also the very individual experience of the student concerned.
The Ivies & peers do a better job of reporting. That is a lot of the difference. Including student at home or on a leave of absence etc.
Mental illness is difficult to predict. Still I believe that parents who are unconditionally supportive can help take the stress down a level. Additionally, the pressure can be intense at to 10-20 schools. Especially for kids who did not come from a large, competitive meat grinder high schools. The kid who was top dog in a small town has no idea what they are walking into. None. It is like dumping a goldfish in the ocean.
In my community, the last three suicides were by non-college attending young men in their early '20s. One- in the military (it is an open secret in the psychiatric community that suicide in the armed forces is a huge problem. Depression plus access to a weapon is not a good combination). One- had a semester of college (non competitive) but dropped out and came home. Family was aware of the issue. One- no warning signs (early 20âs, popular young man, no college but getting trained in a trade).
The only reason the âcompetitive college drove him to suicideâ meme is so popular is that the media likes a story. There are friends and professors to interview. There is armchair psychoanalysis about how terrible the parents are for insisting on a competitive upbringing. Etc.
There is no drama in the MUCH more common scenario â particularly in the military where it can be officially recorded as a âtraining exerciseâ. (A gun went off when it wasnât supposed to. What else are you going to call it?)
This is very, very sad.
Suicide among veterans is well known to many people. The story is much less âpopularâ: we send our young people into the military, glorify their service, and then often ignore them when they return, especially if they need mental health services that the private and public health systems struggle to provide. I agree that itâs very sad.
About the mandatory medical insurance plan, I donât believe the one offered at Dâs collegeâa national student plan through a well-known health insurance companyâcovers mental health, though it might kick in if a student wound up in the ER and had to be admitted. Itâs something that people should look into, especially if they have no other mental health coverage and anticipate any kind of issue based on history.
My D1âs school has a mental health clinic thatâs free but not all are, as I was surprised to learn when I was evaluating the health and insurance resources for the colleges on our list for D2.
There was a suicide in Dâs dorm last year. The girl was a high-achiever with a history of depression and suicide attempts. The school isnât selective but it seems rigorous nonetheless, at least the kids in Dâs program are always very stressed. And I remember the suicide happening at a stressful time of the semester.
What was so sad is that before it happened, the girlâs roommate saw the signs and tried to get help but it doesnât seem that the college followed up.
D1 has a history of anxiety and depression and we have been very proactive. As a senior, sheâs starting to see her classmates having a lot of trouble dealing with the stress, whereas she sees herself as having got better with coping because sheâs worked on it.
I have actually been shocked at how many of my Dsâ friendsâ parents have not been open to getting their teens help when the kids have directly told them they were depressed and needed help, particularly when they give the reason as cost but they are buying expensive new houses are cars. I donât get it.
it is easy to get lost going off to college (to any college) going to a school where most students are hyper competitive and want to outshine each other coupled with being in the middle of a massive city (lots and lots of people but very lonely) add in mental illness and no support network and it can be a horrible place. many students suffer in silence and depression. (some sadly take this step)
I do not blame colmubia but putting up signs in the dorms and having emails sent out reminding students mental health counselling is available is not enough.
I knew two students who âdisappearedâ suddenly from campus. one stop taking his meds freshman year since he was away from home and his parents came and withdrew him from school and took him home. the other locked himself in his room for weeks and his parents flew to the school and brought him to a facility. he also was withdrawn and never came back to school. luckily in both cases they were reached in time.
Mental health resource â
For anyone who knows of a student or family with a student at Columbia â
St. Lukeâs Hospital is next to the campus. Itâs now affiliated with Mount Sinai.
Here is the link for information about their Psychiatric Services, which includes contact info & a small map
http://www.stlukeshospitalnyc.org/Department_of_Psychiatry_Clinical_Services.aspx
@wisteria100 - Thank you for posting this NYPost link. Iâm surprised the NYTimes hasnât covered this.
Iâm at a loss for words. A series of suicides since the beginning of the current academic year is beyond heartbreaking.
I know that college & university mental health centers for a number of years have had difficulties meeting the needs of their students. These recent completed suicides go beyond a call for help that Columbia clearly struggles to answer.
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@prof2dad - and people from his school and hometown probably made such a whoop-de-freaking-do about his going to Columbia that he probably thought he was letting all of them down by dropping out and didnât see any support for himself.
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@Bestfriendsgirl I think it is quite likely. For a small community, attending Columbia is often a big deal and comes with high expectation. I also think it is important for the family to understand what constitutes a realistic level of expectation. After all, it is always true that a half of Columbia students will be below average at Columbia.
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@prof2dad I think the worst is parents who expect a Columbia student who always had a 4.0 in high school to continue that at Columbia. Especially in SEAS, where I am told the gpa average is about 3.0, so half are below that.
With our Ivy Leaguer, we have tried to emphasize taking advantage of the activities & opportunities there, and deemphasizing grades. Much of the benefit of attending an Ivy is outside of class.
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The Columbia Spectator has an article about this.
http://columbiaspectator.com/news/2017/02/02/suicide-columbia-and-urgency-prevention-0
Two takeaways for me: This year has been highly unusual. Most of the suicides are âpeople of color.â
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Feel so bad for the parents and their loved ones. Knowing there is a possibility that this sort of things could happen to any kid including ours, I never put any pressure on my kid to get good grades or go to a high ranked college. My wife and I tried to encourage our kid to try his best and be happy with the results. But what scares me is that the pressure or stress or depression that might have contributed to those kidsâ committing suicide seem to have come from themselves, not their parents. I mean, is Columbia really more âcompetitiveâ than UC Berkeley, Harvard, Princeton, Carnegie Mellon, Stanford, MIT or Cal Tech?
But aside from offering mental consultations promptly, what can colleges do? After all, the world is competitive and cannot be helped. Aside from telling our kids to have an open communication line with us and that itâs ok to take a leave of absence or transfer to another college if our kids are depressed or too stressed out at his or her college, what else can we do as parents? I mean, they are far away and sometimes itâs hard to get the feel on how are feeling. Besides, you have to give them some room so they can grow on their own in their space.
Also, itâs hard to tell your kid not to go to his âdreamâ school because he might not do well academically there because honestly, I really donât know. Besides sometimes itâs good to challenge or push yourself to the limit; thatâs only way you are going to learn what you are made of. Anyway, this article made me tell my kid again that he should consider potential stress level he might face and be able to handle at a Honors College at a state school and Stanford when he makes his decision. I also told my kid again that even if he gets lousy grades in college, itâs no big deal â and I used myself as an example because I got lousy grades in high school and at an Ivy college and I turned out fine.
A lot of depression is clinical, genetic, brain-based and not situational. Parents still get blamed or blame themselves, but I honestly would not blame parents or schools. Of course, unhappy kids, as opposed to clinically depressed kids, also kill themselves.
In any case, it is good not to rely on college services but instead seek help outside. This may trigger an âout of networkâ cost but sometimes that can be appealed if there is no availability in network. I find it hard to believe any college plan doesnât include mental health coverage: I thought it was required by the ACA. Would love to know.
This is an old thread but as a Columbia student, I wanted to respond to it for any people interested in the school.
At Columbia, there is a lot of pressure to be someone. You can graduate with a major, but why not tack on a concentration that might be one, day, useful? I was out at dinner with my friend last night, who could easily graduate with a Financial Econ major and a finance job, and study abroad next year, but is tormenting herself over taking extra classes so she can add on a PolySci concentration.
Iâm in the same situation with Biology but with a math concentration.
New York makes people very independent by nature. People make friends and typically donât reach out to new people after because they get so busy. You have to meticulously schedule time together, which makes making friends hard. You need to prioritize socializing and having fun. Also, because of the age of most of the student body, or something, people arenât that good at taking care of one another. Good op-ed in Spec: http://columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2017/01/25/columbia-has-empathy-problem/ The incident with girl who killed herself and wasnât discovered for days doesnât surprise me. Iâve lived in that residential hall before, and itâs a long corridor of singles and people rarely socialize.
On average, Columbia students take 5-6 classes a term. Harvard students take 4. Both sets of students do lots of extracurriculars, research, and internships on top of it. Everyone here is pushing his or herself to do more, and to do better.
If youâre isolated and feeling like a failure for not being able to keep up, itâs hard. A number of students, including myself learned to base their self-worth off their achievements in high school, and sometimes, you canât replicate that performance at a school like CU.
Personal Experience:
During my sophomore year, I had panic attacks every day during finals week because I was scared of failure. I am fortunate enough to have an extremely good relationship with my advisor, who gave me her phone number and answered me when I called at 6 AM and couldnât sleep all night because of my attacks. She helped me postpone my exams and still is very kind to me.
I spent the next term and the term after trying to find a balance. My sophomore spring, I kept dealing with anxiety and loneliness and even entertained suicidal thoughts at the time, but I didnât consider it seriously because I knew it would destroy my family, and I would never want to cause them that much pain, even if I felt their actions added pressure and continued to hurt me. I called the CPS line a few times and talked to people and thankfully, again, got help from my Dean. I saw a clinician at CPS, who in retrospect, was horrible, but I was referred out and have been seeing someone for the last 2.5 years, for issues that occurred prior to Columbia, and issues now.
This year, I moved out of a dorm on campus to one by Riverside, which I find less stressful. I started working out 3-5x a week, taking care of my diet, and trying to minimize any unnecessary stress. I withdrew, late in the term, from a research for credit course when I felt the supervisor was using me and causing me OTT stress. I schedule social outings weekly with friends, and start studying for things way in advance. Iâve learned to take losses better.
Itâs not perfect, but I feel a lot better now. My point is not that Columbia is an awful place, but that itâs a very high pressure and intense place and you need to be 100% sure that itâs right for you, and 100% willing to walk away if itâs too much. I never cared too much about school fit when I was in HS, and focused on prestige. I had a unique situation that led to Columbia being the best option for me, but I really encourage everyone to carefully consider their needs.
I have many good memories here: teachers who amazed me with their knowledge, friends who persuaded me to not study and enjoy myself at our spring concert, a memorable fall break trip, etc. etc. Many friends of mine have a great time here, but theyâre the ones who are easy going and donât put a lot of pressure on themselves. School fit matters.
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âSchool fit matters.â Very wise advice.
I noticed in your account something that my kids have experienced: real help often comes from deans and advisors, not the Office for Disabilities or mental health services. And referral out for counseling can be effective and long lasting.
Also, you were able to reach out for yourself, a life-saving strength when you are struggling.
I had dinner the other night with 8 people who are all therapists. They all agreed that students and parents should not rely on services offered by the college or university but need to look outside the school for resources, and that schools can sometimes be helpful in finding therapists but canât be expected to provide therapy.
@rosered55 I have a family member at Columbia. All students received an email about this, and all of the schools have had special sessions. Same thing happened a few years ago at Harvard. Tragic.