<p>Anyone had experience with EPGY at Stanford, residential programs for high schoolers?</p>
<p>I might agree with you, but the law says otherwise. Colleges and universities, with older students, in the last decade have lost virtually every civil case dealing with students damaged (or dead) as a result of alcohol and drugs on campus, and even off campus (in fraternities). Do I think parents should take more care? Definitely. Do I think colleges and universities should be held responsible when the environment they condone in these programs seems to encourage or is at least extremely permissive about the use of alcohol and drugs? You bet. And if I sent a non-drinking, non-drugging kid to one of these places, only to have her surrounded by this set, you can be sure the program would never hear the end of it.</p>
<p>you parents need to get a grip. just because people are drinking and doing drugs on campus doesn't mean that your son or daughter is going to turn into a binging excuse for a human being.</p>
<p>I worry about just the opposite. I wouldn't worry in the least about her drinking or doing drugs. I would be concerned that she felt alone, isolated, and that the academic and social environment would suffer as a result. And that seems to be what the parents who have their kids in the program seem to be complaining about.</p>
<p>mommamia: I think the difficulty/challenge of the course depends also on the instructor. Though my daughter's course at Brown was only 3 weeks, it was a philosophy class that involved a ton of reading. I gather the class was a good one, and he required knowledgeable participation, so those who didn't do the reading and other homework were really lost. Some of those dropped out of the class early on, which left a core group of some very bright kids. So I don't think it's the length of the course (though that may make a difference); I think it's the instructor and what's planned and expected.</p>
<p>kcirsch, that's not the point. I'm not worried that kids are going to turn into "a binging excuse for a human being", but I am worried that they are not being supervised in a reasonable manner taking into account their age. </p>
<p>The basic issue is what the appropriate level of oversight for kids doing these summer programs should be. The fact is they are still minors, and the programs market to them and their parents knowing this. I think the parents have the right and responsibility to insist that the program sponsors take reasonable steps to insure the safety of the participants. </p>
<p>I don't know much about the specific programs being discussed, but based on the comments I've read the Brown program seems to me to be at one end of the spectrum, while the Cornell program is at the other. </p>
<p>Kids are always going to push the limits, that's pretty much in their job description. And maybe there is and should be a huge difference in how 17-18 year olds are treated compared to 14-16 year olds. To my mind, a program that takes younger kids, assigns RA's/Counselors (indicating that they understand that leaving kids completely unsupervised is not reasonable) and then pretty much throws up their hands and says "you're on your own, go be adults" is asking for a lot of trouble and taking on a huge liability, as Mini says. Particularly if the program then turns a blind eye to things that may occur.</p>
<p>"And maybe there is and should be a huge difference in how 17-18 year olds are treated compared to 14-16 year olds. To my mind, a program that takes younger kids, assigns RA's/Counselors (indicating that they understand that leaving kids completely unsupervised is not reasonable) and then pretty much throws up their hands and says "you're on your own, go be adults" is asking for a lot of trouble and taking on a huge liability, as Mini says. Particularly if the program then turns a blind eye to things that may occur."</p>
<p>Summer at Brown has a new dean of residential life this year. he said he was going to be stricter. guess not. this looks so bad for brown -- can't believe they don't realize that so i guess they just don't care</p>
<p>Brown absolutely does send kids home every summer for drug and alcohol offenses. They brief it at the opening meeting, and according to the OP, they enforce it. That said, they can't be everywhere all the time. No one is going to walk the kids to class and back, or walk them to the gym, etc. There has to be some personal responsibility. If you can't leave your kid home alone and know the liquor will still be there at the end of the day, don't send them to a college like program. My daughter loved the freedom. She went to Starbucks and the Crepe Place when she wanted. She and her roommate went for cheesecake at midnight. She visited a friend on Nantucket for the weekend using public transportation. She pulled two A's and had a ball in courses I would have never considered fun (well, maybe one of them). Every college floor I ever lived on had an RA assigned. You usually saw them when the police got called. And yes, I was a minor. I turned 18 as a junior.</p>
<p>LOTS OF INFO HERE:</p>
<p>This thread is so very interesting...as D2 is planning to apply to the summer program at Brown next yr. She, too, is fairly independent and focused. I guess am I ready for her to experience "all that" as a rising junior. My gut reaction is to discuss with her the "possibilities" of what she may encounter and let her decide. Maybe even apply to a 2nd program...in case she changes her mind. This is predicated on her intention (as of now) to apply "early" to Brown. We wanted her to experience living and breathing there first hand. Thanks for the discussions.</p>
<p>On the other hand, her sister had a great experience at Smith's summer program. Meet students from all over the world...and probably was the biggest factor in her decision to attend college back east.</p>
<p>I want to thank everyone who responded to my concerns and have contributed to make this exchange of personal experiences and ideas interesting and informative. My d has made a few friends, but all in all she is not enthralled with the overall experience. At her age, the whole social climate can make or break one's experience and I think we both knew immediately that the roomate thing was not an ideal match. I don't know if there is drinking going on at Brown; I assumed that what she meant by "party animals" was a loose description of students that only want to have fun and aren't really interested in academic growth. (naive parent?) She said her age was a factor and that if she were a few years older she might it enjoy it more. She also acknowledged that she needs a more structured program. I need a more structured program too, just for peace of mind it brings.:) Chevda's comments about Cornell being strict prompted me to immediately book their website for next summer. Also, Earlham looks interesting. We signed up for the mini-course because she wasn't eligible to take the credit courses at Brown, besides, they are 7 weeks long and very expensive. I think U-Chicago has a much shorter program (3 weeks) and I didn't see an age requirement on their website. She has average of 2-3 hours of homework daily, and I think the quality of the mini-courses can indeed be just as challenging as some of the credit courses ,depending on who you get as a teacher.</p>
<p>As far as the whole adcom discussion goes, I too, don't have the luxury to leave my teenager at home, so, whether she wants to or not, she has to go away at least a month if not longer over the summer because it is almost impossible to find something that would be compatible with my work schedule. We depend on programs with financial/merit aid because I coudn't afford it otherwise and every summer, despite the scholarships, the camp experience drains the bank account to the point of worrying about basic neccessities. I suppose parents don't always make the right decisions, but I think whether she has a stellar time or not, she will grow on some level and the knowledge she gains will help her later when she starts applying to college because she will have had the experience of living and studying on a college campus. </p>
<p>Raichel</p>
<p>Just skimmed through all this.</p>
<p>A friend and I went to Brown- I went between my jr. and sr. years and she went between her soph. and jr. years. We both had fantastic time even though we were both in the same program. Though we enjoyed ourselves, we wouldn't go again the following summer. Like some have said, there was just too much free time. She and I spent a LOT of time reading for pleasure and doing our AP work. Our roommates were huge partyers and almost never came back to the room before 1 AM. There were some sexual activity in my dorm... I suspect. My roommate spent a lot of time shopping and hanging out in downtown Providence. </p>
<p>Fortunately, I had great friends to talk to online for hours and made a couple of nice friends who were in both of my classes, who weren't into "goofing off". We formed study groups and sometimes hung out. Otherwise, really, for most part, I was lonely and bored because I couldn't relate to those immature kids. </p>
<p>I enjoyed my history and Russian lit classes... a lot of work! Pretty comparable to the work that I actually get in college now. I was disappointed that I only got grad students inside of profs as the site said... </p>
<p>So overall, it was so-so. I wouldn't recommend it to my brother, who absolutely needs to be around "geek" kids in order for him to reach his academic potential. This laid-back summer program is really for people who don't need peer influence in order to do well. </p>
<p>Anyone know anything about Oxbridge?</p>
<p>I've talked to two parents who had kids at Oxbridge - one who raved that it was a wonderful experience (d. was rising senior and attended with a friend, although they don't allow you to room with friend) and another who pulled her child out after two-three days because she felt there was inadequate supervision (her d. was a rising junior) - cell phone was stolen, young kids drinking. The former said that that kind of thing was going on around her d., but that she was insulated by a group of like-minded kids who all had a blast and learned things.</p>
<p>There is an element of luck in all these programs. If you're able to find 'kindred spirits' it can be wonderful. The more I read, though, the more I feel that university programs (unless you can commute as a day student) aren't the right fit for me as a parent. It's like handing someone a big pair of shoes - sure they can wear them, but they really don't fit and you flounder a bit. There are so many programs out there it's easy, for me, to make the cut that way - eliminate the university ones and you're still left with many options. Might feel differently with a 17 year old than a 14 year old.</p>
<p>I suggest to look at the Andover and Exeter Summer programs. My son went last year, had the time of his life. I tried to talk him out of going this year but he couldn't wait to go back. Much more supervision than the college programs. They also have mandatory athletic requirements. Approx. 40% of the kids are foreign so it is a fascinating group of kids. It is a great way to get them acclimated to dorm life and being away from home. and they will not be hanging out at Starbucks at 1 in the morning!</p>
<p>avoco ...And that is the difference between a high school program and a college program...</p>
<p>LHD ... I wouldn't send a 14 to Brown. I would have to think hard about 15 again, and only for a strong student. Mature 16 is fine. She'll be at Harvard this fall at 17, so they have to grow up sometime. That's my two cents. Any parents or kids that want to discuss Brown Summer can PM lindseylujh.</p>
<p>I thankfully have no experience dealing with the really difficult issues some of you parents have been dealing with. I do have a take on it because of my D's experience this year at Texas Girl's State. Remember, Girl's State is a "good citizen" project of the American Legion Auxiliary with thoroughly vetted girls, selected from girls originally selected by their GC. </p>
<p>D calls home night three and it sounds as if she's on a cell phone. I say "D. You 're talking on a cell phone. Under the rules that's verboten." "Dad. Don't worry. I'll explain when I get home". She calls a few more times. Same conversation. </p>
<p>I pick her up and she tells this story. "Dad. I didn't want to say over the phone because my roommate was there and it was her phone I was talking on , but two girls were caught smoking pot in their room and they were not sent home. After that I kind of figured my violation of the cell phone rule was probably a non-expulsion offense." Well, maybe they didn't have good evidence about the marijuana. "Dad. The girls gave them the bag of pot when they asked for it. I think they had pretty decent evidence of guilt." Oh my God. I've raised another lawyer. Quick . Get the shovel.</p>
<p>Is 5-weeks, less expensive than HSSP & some other programs,
for-credit (demanding) college courses, well organized,
good supervision & curfew.
Not aware of any (excessive) drinking or similar issues,
kids generally very nice, socialble, & low key (i.e. not aggressively competitive).</p>
<p>As to topics such as why send children away for the summer,
why should kids do any "structured" summer programs at all,
is it for resume-padding,
is it just for affluent kids, does it help admission etc.:
- In jr year, his Guidance Counselor pretty much insisted that he go away for some summer program, "to learn independence, group living" etc.
We were actually taken aback by the suggestion, had thought he could just
work & relax locally. He never expressed any desire to go away either.
- Had a hugely positive experience at YSS, enjoyed meeting kids who were nice, intelligent, & compatible. Learned a lot too.
- Decided Yale is his 1st choice, applied EA & accepted, never interested in other colleges (also accepted at other Ivies).
Finished freshman year so far, all positives & very happy.
- These programs can be very worthwhile if: select the courses that you really want to take, work hard at it, grow & mature, have fun with good friends.
It's NOT worthwhile if: taking courses that are not a good match,
either not work hard at it or can't keep up with the academics.
Then it's like you have "nothing to show" after spending thousands...
- Admission: a whole bunch of the summer kids all decided to apply EA,
with mixed results.
So there was no clear pattern, it's indeed based on each applicant's overall record & presentation.
- These summer programs are by no means "necessary".
Many generations of kids have gone to college without major adjustment problems,
when they did not live away from home before.
So it comes down to a very individual decision for each family & each child.</p>
<p>Would it be appropriate to share (approximately) how much the Andover, Exeter and Yale programs cost? Just wondering...(the combo of supervision plus high level academics is v. appealing!)</p>
<p>Thanks!!!!</p>
<p>See
<a href="http://www.yale.edu/summer/financial/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.yale.edu/summer/financial/index.html</a></p>
<p>Note:
HS students must take 2 courses ($3800), or 1 science + lab ($1900+950),
or Lang Institute.
So costs can vary.
Add room/board charges, but they do allow commuter students or those wishing to live off campus.</p>
<p>go to <a href="http://www.exeter.edu%5B/url%5D">www.exeter.edu</a> and look up summer school. it is around 5,500 all included except books. Andover about the same. Classes 6 days a week with many colleges coming to campus during the session. Sports offered are soccer, rugby, squash,soccer,crew etc. They have many dances, movies,etc to help bring the community together. Can't recommend the boarding school summer programs enough. For younger kids, say 5-8 grades, Eaglebrook school has a program that runs 4 weeks that is an undiscovered gem. Not advertised and mainly word of mouth, but a school where Henry Kravis, Michae Douglas, and the King of Jordan attended. good luck to all.</p>