When Harvard recommends taking four years of a science, does taking a science course over the summer count as fulfilling one of those years? I currently don’t have room in my Junior Year schedule for a science course so I thought I would take a dual Enrollment course the summer of my Junior-Senior Year- is this a bad idea or would I be at a disadvantage?
Usually, a summer course is the equivalent of ONE SEMESTER of an academic subject, so taking a science course over the summer would only partially satisfy Harvard’s recommended high school courses. Keep in mind that a summer course crams 16-weeks of one semester into an 8-10 week summer schedule, so students are required to master that the material in about half the amount of time. That’s not an easy task when taking a science course with a lab.
Most selective colleges (HYPSM et al) want to see high school students – even those interested in Humanities – take one year of physics, one year of chemistry, and one year of biology, and an additional year of one of those subjects at an advanced level. Which of those courses are you planning to skip? And, what are you planning on taking instead?
By the end of my junior year, I will have taken Honors Biology (Freshman), Honors Chemistry (Sophomore), and AP Physics (Junior). So I wouldn’t be skipping one of these subjects, per se, just the advanced level of AP Bio or AP Chem. Science happens to be weakest subject.
I was thinking about a more specific science that’d I enjoy (something like astronomy, for example).
Taking AP Physics WITHOUT taking a regular or honors Physics class is going to be very difficult for you, especially if science is your weakest subject. I would recommend you take a regular or honor level Physics class junior year, and then an AP level class in either Bio, Chem or Physics your senior year.
FWIW: Harvard’s recommendation of courses includes those taken during your senior year of high school.
The teacher at my school recommended I take AP Calculus (Junior Year) before taking AP Physics Senior Year (I had a typo above). I really don’t have room in my schedule to take an honors Physics first- I’m already taking one class too many and I need to figure out which class to drop. My teacher said they thought I was fine to try to do AP Physics without honors physics ahead of time if I had Calculus
Many selective colleges think of high school astronomy, zoology and psychology as “lite science” and do not prefer them over one year of physics, one year of chemistry, and one year of biology, and an additional year of one of those subjects at an advanced level. That’s true even if you take astronomy, zoology or psychology at the AP level.
For example: Harvard doesn’t give AP course credit unless a student chooses “Advanced Standing” (the exception is the AP Foreign Language course), but look at Yale’s AP credit list. Astronomy is not listed, while no credits are given for Psychology: http://catalog.yale.edu/freshman-handbook/academic-information/acceleration/table-of-acceleration-credit/. It’s the same over at Princeton: https://www.princeton.edu/pub/ap/table/ and Stanford: https://registrar.stanford.edu/students/transfer-credit-and-advanced-placement/advanced-placement/ap-credit-chart and MIT: http://web.mit.edu/firstyear/prospective/credit/ap.html
My recommendation: Don’t take astronomy instead of regular physics. I’m sure you have room in your schedule, but you are personally preferring to take courses you might enjoy, rather than those that selective colleges expect to see on a student’s transcript.
I’ve been trying to find a good balance of classes for a while but I’ve been told on other forums that I shouldn’t choose classes based on how it will look in college admissions. I personally believe that I should because there are certain requirements that need to be met to have a good shot at selective colleges.
That being said, here is what I am looking at taking next year. I’ve put in parentheses which credits I am taking that are required in some fashion before graduation.
AP Calc AB (Math Requirement)
AP Calc BC
AP US History (History Requirement)
AP Euro History (Asked for by Harvard)
AP Lang (English Requirement)
AP Music Theory
French III (Foreign Language Requirement)
Drama (Fine Arts Requirement)
Which basically leaves me to drop AP Music Theory for Honors Physics, giving me one less AP course (and an AP I’d enjoy and be strong in, and that I feel I need to take before senior year for a couple of reasons), and AP Calc BC, for which I was planning on taking the AP test for in order to move to a DE math class senior year that I was hoping to take.
I’m not necessarily looking for a college credit, per se. I’m looking at different college classes that I’m able to take that aren’t normally offered at my school (it wouldn’t necessarily be astronomy; that was just one example) because if it’s something I’m more interested in I might do better in the class.
Thanks for your insight.
First off, and I believe this was mentioned to you (or another student) on different thread, Calc BC contains THE SAME material as Calc AB (your Math Requirement), but has additional subjects covered. It makes absolutely no sense to take Calc AB and BC concurrently, so I wouldn’t advise you to do it. If your high school will not let you take Calc BC in place of Calc AB, drop Calc BC and take regular physics. Yes, I’m advising you to drop Calc BC because it will appear to colleges that you are taking virtually identical courses at the same time. See: http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/public/courses/220300.html
The other option which you suggested is to drop AP Music theory and take regular physics instead. AP Music theory is another of those AP courses considered “AP Lite” by selective colleges. IMHO, selective colleges would prefer you have regular physics over AP Music Theory or taking Calc AB and BC concurrently. So, you have two options right there to play with on your schedule.
It was mentioned to me on another thread, but I wouldn’t be taking them currently. AB would be taken in the fall and BC in the spring each as block, semester long classes, with BC following AB. I was advised by several people on this forum to skip AB and jump straight to BC but my school recommends (and probably requires) that AB be taken before BC.
That being said, I will consider what you advised. Thanks for your help.
That would be my recommendation as well. Please ask your guidance counselor if you could take Calc BC instead as most high school students I know do not take both math courses – they take one or the other. If I were an AO, I’d question why you took both Calc AB and BC, as the curriculum has much overlap thereby making your course rigor seem highly duplicative.
And I was one of the people who said that. I also said that you should not focus specifically on Harvard, or any school, when doing course selections.
So let’s go back to the initial question.
The core of a HS schedule for any given year (assuming that you have not already completed graduation requirements and a college’s recommended preparation in a certain subject) is to have one course each in English, math, social science/history, science, and foreign language. Once that’s out of the way, you can fill the balance with electives. So not having room because you’re doubling up on subjects like arts or math at the expense of a science is not the way to go. FWIW, I would assume that AP Music Theory would meet your school’s fine arts requirements.
Yes, one can fulfill shortcomings by filling the holes in summer school, but I am of the opinion that summers are better spent doing non-academic work. Additionally, it will make you, IMO, fresher for the beginning of the next academic year and will probably provide more interesting essays on your college application. Schools like Harvard are really not interested in filling there class with students who are pure academic drones.
In this case, go with what your school recommends. How AP Calculus is taught varies from school to school. One way, and it sounds like how it is at your school, is to cover the AB topics in AB and to only cover BC topics in BC. Other schools cover both AB and BC in the BC class, but that’s not applicable to you. So for you, jumping straight into BC makes no sense, since you will not have learned 60% of the material needed for the AP test.
No it’s not. Harvard asks for European history, although it does not need to be AP. And really what they are saying is that they would prefer exposure to one or two non-US history courses. Keep in mind that Harvard’s suggestions are just that; it is not meant as items to check off the list. Many applicants attend HS’s where HS policy would preclude following Harvard’s suggestions and they are not disadvantaged in the admissions process. Similarly, applicants may have had valid reasons for being unable to fulfill the recommendations. From my own experience, although Harvard requests it, I did not take bio in HS. Not AP bio, not regular bio, not bio in MS that counted as a HS course . Nothing. I did, though, have 4 years of science, one year being astronomy (sorry, @gibby 
) It did not hurt me in the admissions process. While admittedly this is a sample of n=1, my point is that Harvard and other colleges will look at the total picture and not focus in one small part of your application.
I pretty much agree with everything that @skieurope said. Harvard looks at the total picture. My kid just took one year of science in HS. They took AP biology. They took AP physics online through Stanford EPGY( Not sure if it still exists) and two chemistry classes through Northwestern. This is just also a sample of n=1
@skieurope Harvard’s admissions website lists European History as one of the two named history courses that they believe would help best prepare you for Harvard admissions. My school does not offer regular European History, just AP. And while Harvard views each student within the context of their school, my school does not preclude me from taking AP Euro, and therefore there’s no reason not too.
Can I ask what your four sciences were? Were they Dual Enrollment, as I am thinking of taking (if it were to be something like Astronomy, which would be taken as a DE class)?
@collegedad13 did your child’s school offer any other upper level science classes or was this your way of going to a higher level science?
If you cannot fit a science into your schedule, your guidance counselor can explain that to the colleges.
If you like science and want to continue in it, a summer course is absolutely fine, as would an online science class (yes they have labs). Summer science can be pretty intensive. Make sure there isn’t something better for you to do during those months 
If music is an interest, do NOT drop music theory. I know of someone who was admitted to Harvard who dropped way back in math in order to take music theory, and Harvard seemed to appreciate the dedication.
If you are accomplished in music, the missing science may not even matter.
Please do what interests you and what provides a balanced life. If you want to, you can explain the limitations of your school scheduling as well as what “passions” dictate your choices at some point, as can your GC.
In the end (repeating this once more) you want a school that fits you, rather than twisting things to fit a school. The irony is that, by exploring authentic interests and looking after your well-being, you may actually have a better shot at selective schools than if you try to fit a template.
You are inferring too much from Harvard. Nowhere do they say that European history, or any course, will “best prepare” you for Harvard; they say such course will provide a "strong base.: Anyway,as I said earlier, the Harvard recommendations are meant to cover most, but not all cases. Harvard says European history because most US HS history departments think that the history of the world centers around the US and Europe post-1450. Even the world history offering is disproportionately European based. Look at a typical HS offerings and find a Latin American History or Asian History or History of Ancient Greece and Rome. Good luck with that. I guarantee you that a US applicant that has a year of US history and 2 years of the history of another part of the world other than Europe will not be disadvantaged. But if you want to take AP European History, that’s fine, too. As I’ve told you many times, don’t take, or not take, a specific course just because a college “suggests” it.
My HS did not offer dual-enrollment, so all my classes were taken through the HS. My sciences were chem, astronomy, and 2 years of physics. FWIW, I took no classes during the summers.
@lookingtoharvard my kid went to a public HS. It was an open campus. It was not competitive like Stuy. Their school offered other science classes(AP chem, AP physics B,etc). Basically my kid wanted to free up their afternoons so they could take college classes. The only history they took was APUSH and art history Their school didn’t even offer European history
@lookingtoharvard: Instead of focusing on what Harvard wants – after all 94% of all applicants to Harvard are rejected, so the odds are stacked against you from the start – you should be focusing on:
- What schedule will allow me to receive the **MOST DEMANDING** rating from my guidance counselor on the **Secondary School Report (SSR)***?
- What schedule will allow me to graduate from my high school meeting all the necessary requirements for an honors diploma?
- What schedule will allow me to satisfy all the demands of both #1 and #2 but will still allow me to take the electives I want to take?
This is where a discussion with your guidance counselor is essential, as their rating on the SSR is what matters the most. My suggestion is to make an appointment with your guidance counselor and talk about your options.
*Secondary School Report (SSR): See top of page 2, especially the top right hand section of page 2 where your GC rates the rigor of your course load against all other college bound students from your high school: http://admissions.duke.edu/images/uploads/process/school_report.pdf.
@skieurope the article I read on Harvard’s admissions website was entitled “Choosing Courses: How Can You Best Prepare for Harvard?” And while I agree most history courses do lean Eurocentric, as AP Euro and AP World (which I’m currently taking) are the highest level non-US History courses offered, I don’t see an advantage in trying to take a different history course. Besides, it’s a class that does interest me and I would’ve ended up taking anyway.
FWIW: My AP World teacher does a fantastic job of making sure the course doesn’t remain Eurocentric- he always ensures we’re getting a global perspective, which I enjoy.
@collegedad13 your child seems to be in a very similar situation that I’m currently in by attending a public, typically non-competitive high school. Senior Year I do hope to clear my afternoon schedule for some DE classes.
@gibby thank you for the link, it is very insightful