<p>Last year the app was not available until late February, which was very frustrating. But I actually think this year it is already up. So download and proceed after the holidays to gather the info needed. Other than an application fee, no money is required until May (or at least th at is the way it was last year).</p>
<p>Evasmom, thought I would offer additional commentary/support for the CMU summer program as well and share that I felt your pain when it came to the $.
My d who is now a senior and in the midst of auditions attended CMU Pre-College MT the summer between sophmore and junior year and attended OCU for 1 week classical voice intensive and the 6 week Cap21 MT program this past summer. She had already been in an MT program at a performing arts high school for 2 years and attended each of their 3 week/residential MT intensives the 2 prior summers, but DID NOT have tons of performance experience. My wife and I decided to tap into some college funds to make the CMU thing happen for couple of reasons.
Chances of attending school there were minimal given the $ and the number of kids admitted, but who could argue that the training would most likely be excellent and IT WAS NOT SUMMER CAMP! It very closely replicated what it would be like at a conservatory and I wanted to be sure that this is what my d wanted for her college experience.
Well, it was everything we hoped for and in a fairly safe and accomodating environment Pittsburgh. I honestly feel it was well worth the money and then some. Best of all she came back a significantly more mature and improved performer who was ready for college auditions the day she got back. In addition, as others have mentioned, the friendships and such have been great.
Based on that experience we tapped a little more college money this past summer for the same reasons. No chance d would attend Cap21 based on $ but the opportunity to train with excellent people and to live on your own in the city was the next logical step for us. It turned out to be an excellent experience as well. It was so well run that my d was sick one day and the admin office had not spoke to her so they called us at home, by mid morning to locate her and be sure she was alright. The training was also superb although there was not quite as much of a focus on college audition prep. Again, in our minds money well spent given that she had proven to us that this was the path she was pursueing and we felt the need to provide the horses (where possible) to help her get there. The 1 week at OCU was just as favorable and offered a real look at a University she could afford to attend. It be came one of top choices and we are sitting on pins and needles waiting on the results of her audition. It was also very affordable and she significantly improved her skills while attending</p>
<p>Overall, I think if your child has a clear history and drive for this path, notice I did not say alot of experience because I do not think that is a factor at CMU, the experience will be invaluable in a lot of ways most importantly, auditions will be something they look forward to and are confident in doing, which is the most critical element to college acceptance that I have been able to identify after participating here for 2 years and a good deal of research.
Now the down side.....
The $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, many programs are just as good and closer to home and you can get all the things I just mentioned.
The child you send will not be the child that returns and you must be prepared for that new level of confidence and independence.
Of course now CMU, OCU, and NYU are among her top choices, which we have explained is relatively impossible financially for all but 1. However, it has led us to 2 other excellent options that may not be mentioned here as frequently as they should. Those are Point Park in Pittsburgh and Marymount Manhattan in NYC, they are somewhat more affordable and pretty close to the center of action in NYC. Most importantly, the training is good and it seems to fit my daughters needs.</p>
<p>Sorry for the length, e-mail me if nescessary.</p>
<p>I am really interested in what kinds of things you guys think that the CMU summer program admissions office looks for in a kid they accept. Do the kids write an essay? Send a headshot? A performance resume? </p>
<p>Lisa</p>
<p>yes to the essay and performance resume but no head shot. Also need 2 letters of recommendation from teachers. Actually the whole application process was also good practice for the college application process. I also agree that the kid that you drop off at the CMU program is not the one you get back. Thye come home more mature and focused. The downside for my D was that she really didnt want to come home and was not happy to be back in high school this fall but the whole summer made her realize that she really wants this and has made her very willing to do everything and anything to make it happen from taking SAT 2's for NYU,to writing 8 different essays, to taking a third year of lab science because one school said they wanted it. 10 applications with her has been easier than the one early decision one I had to push my son through 2 years ago</p>
<p>Lisa: a short essay.. In fact it was a short version of what she ultimately used as her college ap essay. I think she sent a resume. They asked for a HS transcript (but as has been previously mentioned this probably had nothing to do with decision) and they asked for PSAT (or other) score. They also asked for 2 (I htink 2) recommendations. That's why it's not a bad idea to start assembling some of the pieces, even if you don't get the app filed for a few weeks. </p>
<p>Again, what they seem to be looking for is a real interest in theater.</p>
<p>As a new parent here I can't stop thanking all of you for sharing your experiences! It is so helpful. It occurs to me that the process of applying to and hopefully attneding pre college is as much a practice for me to prepare for next year and then the year after ... as for my D. I can't help still seeing her as the tiny girl getting on the big school bus for kindegarten.
Har</p>
<p>I am interested that a BFA MT program would require a third year of lab science! That's interesting to me, as a few people here and there have talked about how excited their kids were to be part of a program where math and science were not emphasized. :) (My D does not care much for math, though she is a very able math student. But she is looking forward to the day where she can concentrate mostly on theater and the humanities.)
Someone also mentioned that NYU likes SAT 2 tests. Is that particular to NYU (which will no doubt be my D's first choice school), or do many of the "top" MT programs like that test? Of course, this is all still theoretical to us, as my D is a 10th grader and just took her PSATs for the first time.
Lisa</p>
<p>NYU was the only one on my D's liat that required both. Although Syracuse was very specific that they also wanted a full academic laod in the senior year but taking an extra social studies classes could take the place of math. Read the requirements for each of your programs carefully before you start your senior year. My D ended up cahnging her cousre choices in the second week of classes after we read with shock about the science requirement</p>
<p>Thanks, josiemax. Ugh, so much to keep track of! Back when I was looking at colleges, we began to think about the whole thing late in the junior year and sent away for a few brochures. We looked them over and chose a few and sent out applications. That was it! :) Of course, I was the first person in my family to go to college, so perhaps my experience wasn't typical and wasn't the best. I went to an OK school, but not the one I could have with my scores and grades. (But it all came out right in the end, so who cares?! :))</p>
<p>I will take your advice and we will look at the requirements for each program. Thanks again for your help.
Lisa</p>
<p>It's not that the BFA program itself wants you to have science (or any other particular HS course work) but that the universities themselves have certain requirements or recommendations of what they want for admissions academically. It is always best to take the most challenging course load you can and to do your very best. This matters more at some schools than others. At the more academically selective schools, it will matter. For instance, at NYU or UMich, this kind of thing matters. For NYU, academic review is 50% of the decision. NYU itself, without the BFA part of the admissions, is a selective university with about a 28% admit rate (not talking Tisch/BFA). Also, NYU recommends 2 SAT2 Subject Tests (used to be 3 before the new SAT had writing). It is not required. That said, I would do whatever a school recommends and increase the odds. My D took 3 SAT2's (she was under the old SAT system and had done the SAT's and SAT2's all in spring of tenth grade as she was graduating early). Many of the BFA programs talked about on this forum do not require SAT2s. More selective universities and colleges do. My other D, who was not a BFA candidate, but was applying to selective schools, had to take the SAT2s for ALL of her schools. Less selective schools do not require these for the most part. </p>
<p>Like your D, my D did not care for math (or science) but was very able in math and had accelerated and was taking AP Calculus as an eleventh grader and also did well on the math portion of the SATs. She truly does not like math but tried to take the most challenging courseload as she is capable of doing so. She is good at math but dislikes science even more. Now, at NYU, one nice thing is that she will never have to take math or science. They have distribution requirements but they are in broad areas and so math/science is not truly required. She is not sad about this :D. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Thanks, as usual, Susan. Phew, so much to learn and to know! One disadvantage of my D transferring from her very academically rigorous private girls' school to her current, urban, public (but by audition only) arts high school is that there are far, far less academic options at the PA school. For instance, at her old school, she could have chosen from among literally more than a dozen AP courses (she would have been taking AP US History this year) and an SAT prep class (with practice tests done periodically) were built in. At her current school, they have less than a handful of AP classes and you better prepare your kid for the SAT yourselves! :) On the other hand, at the old school she would have been able to take maybe one theater related class a year, and at the new one she can take four hours a day of acting/movement/voice/tech, etc. I guess the colleges she applies to will look to make sure she took the most rigorous curriculum they offered, evaluate her scores and essay and her audition (VERY important) and make whatever decision they are going to make. I do notice that grads from the current school go to all the schools we talk about here, but of course, those admissions are spread over actors, visual artists, tech people, dancers and musicians. Still, it's good to know that kids from this school do get into NYU, NCSA, CMU, etc.
Lisa</p>
<p>Lisa, if it makes you feel better, kids from ANY school can get into these colleges. My kids attended a rural public high school. My daughter had NO SAT prep...she took some practice tests at the dining room table. Her high school has Honors Classes and did not have AP but just started to designate about 5 honors classes as AP now that my kids were leaving (I think just before this, Calculus, which they took was called AP and Physics that my older D took had that designation but otherwise they were called Honors). Colleges just want to see that you took the most challenging courses at YOUR school. Don't worry. If you wish to get SAT prep, you can get a tutor, take a course, OR prep on your own. All's good.
Susan</p>
<p>Susan,</p>
<p>I'm curious if Tisch has changed the required distribution courses since my D started. The kids in her year, and I know the current sophomores, are required to take 24 credits of these 'gen ed' courses, a minimum of which 8 must be sciences (incl. math) and 8 must be humanities. The other 8 can be either at the student's discretion. Certainly, AP credit can get you out of these but they were still required as of last year. Curious to hear if that's changed for this year's freshmen.</p>
<p>Eliza</p>
<p>AlwaysAMom, I don't have time to look up the details as my kids are coming home....well, oops, as I wrote this, plans just morphed for the umpteen time in the past couple of hours. One has landed in the state, was on way, isn't coming home....don't ask.....will eventually be home past midnight after a show in another city....OOK...other one was to have been almost here, hasn't left her campus yet...oy...ok where was I....about the distribution or gen. ed requirements for Tisch.....yes, they have to have some in each of the areas, BUT I recall looking with my D at the areas, and to her delight, "Sciences" was VERY broadly defined, LOL. It wasn't just science or math but (and I do have to look it up as it was a while ago) it included areas like Psychology, Political Science and other topics of interest to her, not just pure science like bio, chem, physics, or math stuff. I hope I don't have this wrong!! This year, as a frosh, as you know, her liberal arts classes were "givens"....writing courses and the theater liberal arts type courses, no choices, so it is not like I've examined the other stuff yet but do recall these areas we looked up a long time ago and it being as I described. Let me see if I can find it again but then I gotta go...</p>
<p>AlwaysAMom, found what I was looking for. I will post it here. Yes as you say about the credits from each area, was what I also meant. BUT Sciences includes various departments and they are not all the science-y or math subjects :D My D actually LIKES several of those areas in that category, such as politics.</p>
<p>HERE ARE THOSE REQUIREMENTS:
College of Arts & Science (CAS)</p>
<p>Liberal Arts
Liberal Arts credit can be earned from all departments in the College of Arts and Sciences (CAS), Tisch Interdisciplinary Seminars (H48, and <em>most</em> H95) and the Department of Cinema Studies (H72). Please note these exceptions: Courses related to the major (drama, theatre, opera), Creative Writing, and Tisch or Journalism skills courses (reporting, copy editing, digital techniques) DO NOT count as Liberal Arts; you are, however, welcome to take these as Electives. If you have any questions about this, please see an Advisor or check the Courses Not Accepted as General Education list under Related Links.</p>
<p>Within Liberal Arts, you need a minimum of 8 points of Humanities and 8 points of Sciences, plus 8 points of either Humanities or Sciences. You may only take one TSOA Humanities and one TSOA Science towards you Liberal Arts Requirements.</p>
<p>If you get an "F" in your Liberal Arts classes, the points will not count toward graduation.</p>
<p>Visit the College of Arts & Sciences (CAS) Bulletin: Departments and Programs link for CAS Department and course information. Each Department's page has a Program Overview and requirements for the Major or Minor (if any). Course descriptions are also linked off of the Department page. Please Note: All courses listed in the Bulletin may not be offered in a given semester. Cross check with the printed NYU Schedule of Classes or online at the NYU Registrar Web Site.</p>
<p>Sciences
V14 Anthropology
V22 Computer Science
V23 Biology
V25 Chemistry
V31 Economics
V37 Engineering
V49 Earth & Environmental Science
V53 Politics
V54 Journalism (theory only no "LAB" courses)
V61 Linguistics
V62 Law and Society
V63 Mathematics
V85 Physics
V89 Psychology
V93 Sociology
V99 Metropolitan Studies</p>
<p>Humanities
V27 Classics
V29 Comparative Literature
V33 East Asian Studies
V41 English Literature (except Dramatic Literature courses)
V42 European Studies
V43 Fine Arts
V45 French
V51 German
V54 History
V58 Irish Studies
V59 Italian
V65 Medieval / Renaissance
V71 Music (history or theory only)
V77 Middle Eastern Studies
V78 Hebrew & Judaic Studies
V83 Philosophy
V87 Portuguese
V90 Religious Studies
V91 Russian & Slavic
V95 Spanish
The following interdisciplinary departments offer courses in both the Humanities and the Sciences. To determine whether a course counts as Humanities or Science, check to see if it is cross-listed with one of the departments listed above. If you're not sure, check with an advisor in the Drama department.</p>
<p>V11 CAS Africana Studies
V55 CAS Morse Academic Plan (MAP)
V97 CAS Women's Studies
Policy on Foreign Language Study
You must achieve a level II proficiency before the credits will be counted towards Humanities. If you only complete level I, the points will count as Electives.</p>
<p>Policy on Journalism Courses
Only those courses designated by the Journalism Department as Lecture courses will be counted towards Sciences. In the NYU Directory of Classes, check to see that the course type is listed as "SEM" or "LEC." Those listed as "LAB" are skills courses and will count only as Electives. NOTE: All Journalism courses taken before Fall 2000 will count as Sciences.</p>
<p>Tisch School of the Arts - Interdisciplinary</p>
<p>Many courses offered through the Tisch Open Arts bulletin can be taken for General Education credit. Check the bulletin for current information on whether a particular course will be counted, and towards which category.</p>
<p>The following departments are particularly good resources for General Education credit:</p>
<p>H72. Cinema Studies (Humanities). Note: You may only take 2 of these classes towards General Education
H48. Department of Art and Public Policy - check bulletin for current listings, and to find out whether these classes will count towards Humanities or Science</p>
<p>I showed those to yall on another thread! :) They are in the Drama Freshman Registration Handbook ... <a href="http://students.tisch.nyu.edu/object/reg05.html%5B/url%5D">http://students.tisch.nyu.edu/object/reg05.html</a></p>
<p>GENERAL EDUCATION 32 credits
Art and the World/Writing The Essay 4 credits
The World Through Art/Writing The World 4 credits
Humanities 8 credits
Science (Natural or Social) 8 credits
Humanities or Sciences 8 credits
ELECTIVES 20 credits
Any NYU course, including additional work in the above areas, except those offered through the School of Continuing and Professional Studies.</p>
<p>You can only use 8 AP Credits to cover the requirements and if you use a science like Biology that IS the 8. I think you can also use others to cover electives. You can also only transfer 32 credits including your APs.</p>
<p>Right, but the issue being discussed was not really AP, simply saying that you must not take actual science or math classes to satisfy the "Science" distribution.....the sciences include social sciences too. My D is not using any AP. It is not like I did not know the requirements, just was clarifying that when I said she does not need to take math or science, and AlwaysAMom IS correct that you have to take some courses in the "sciences", that I was just saying she won't have to take courses like Bio, Chem, physics, math, etc. The "sciences" includes several areas that we were surprised came under that heading and for my D, was quite happy about !</p>
<p>Ahh... It was such a nice plus for my son to discover that he never had to take another math class ever again. He doesn't mind sciences (just has that kind of brain), but I bet he'll take social sciences to fulfill NYU requirements.</p>
<p>I am fascinated by all of the great information you all have and share. If all of this info were in a book it would be a bestseller with theater families. My D is a junior and has been involved in theater for as long as I can remember. She is looking for a program for this coming summer after spending last summer at the Center For Creative Youth at Wesleyan University. She had looked at Brown and BU - but neither are MT programs. She had looked into CMU and loved the look of the program, but questioned if it was too far away (we live in CT). After reading these boards I suggested she look at Northwestern - seems the program was developed just for her. She loves being on stage performing, but truely loves all aspects of theater and is hoping to major either in Theater Ed or Stage Management in college. She loves the idea of a design/tech concentration that also requires performance. Now CMU no longer looks too far away, and her first choice for the summer may be even farther away at Northeastern. Being the mom - I have some questions I haven't been able to find answers to - If anyone can answer even a few I'd really appreciate it.
1. Admission process - I think I read that CMU is rolling admissions - if she sends application in soon and gets a yes from them, how soon does she have to let them know she's coming (ie- could she wait to hear from Northwestern)?
2. Northwestern - doesn't appear to be rolling admit - is that correct?
3. When would you suggest is best to get app's in? Any advantage to earlier?
4. What did you find was the most important thing in either place deciding for or against a student? Grades? PSAT/SAT scores? Reccomendations? Essay? I know they are all part of the picture - but what was your experience - what type of scores/grades got in?
5. The program she was at last summer afforded the kids some free time but set very strict boundries as to how far they could venture away from their part of campus. What is the supervision like and how "free" are the kids during their free time?<br>
6. The distance away is still a bit troubling (more to mom than to D) - if your child attended either program from far away - how did it go - any hints to make it easier - oops - I'm jumping the gun - she has to get in first. </p>
<p>I really appreciate your help. Sorry if some of my questions are answered in this thread - I've read through most of the posts, but I may have missed things along the way.<br>
Thank you!</p>
<p>regarding the CMU program, i'm not gonna lie. it took a while to hear (6weeks perhaps?) and we got our app in like the day after it was posted!</p>
<p>but it's up earlier this year, so ya never know. last year it wasn't up till February. i'd get it in as soon as possible.</p>
<p>but it was well worth the wait. they're not that selective with the program (which may sound like a bad thing once you're there, but it really isn't because it's very individual!)</p>
<p>in terms of the admissions processs, it really seemed like all they wanted to see was an INTEREST in theater. and as long as you're not failing, i'm sure the grades, PSATs, etc are fine.</p>
<p>at the CMU program you are COMPLETELY FREE!!! (which may or may not be a good thing from a parental perspective lol). You are allowed to do basically anything as long as you don't smoke, don't drink, don't go in fraternity and sorrority houses, and are in the building for curfew (11pm on weekdays, 12 at midnight). you never have to be in your room with lights out or anything, though. you're allowed to go anywhere and there isn't adult supervision to go anywhere. but they are super strict when it comes to smoking, etc. all those people got kicked out IMMEDIATELY!!</p>
<p>i was 6 hours away from the CMU program....i didn't see my family during that 6 weeks at all. that was not a problem for me (maybe because i was away 8 weeks in michigan the summer before!).</p>
<p>feel free to ask any questions. i love talking about CMU pre-college. best thing EVER!!!</p>