<p>blue, supposedly School of the Arts and Lowell are both considered "magnet." However, for SOTA one does not need SF residency; for Lowell, you do.</p>
<p>DRJ, in my book it is definitely in the "sad" category. I say that because there are other reasons -- in fact college related or college <em>preparation</em> related that would argue for attending an excellent school, whether or not you would "stand out." (Also discussed recently on another PF thread.)</p>
<p>Enjoy, xiggi</p>
<p>Touché! </p>
<p>In reality, I do not mind more articles about Thacker and the Education Conservancy. The more he is invited to speak, the more he will expose himself as the hollow fraud without a message he really is. Right now, he can play the role of a rabid barking at all the "shortcomings" of the system, and this to the great amusement of a peanut gallery mostly composed of the clueless renegades of NACAC. </p>
<p>Sooner or later, he will need to formulate an embryo of a plan or a couple of ... solutions. His proposal that all we need is merely building a stage where "admissions" actors will discuss how to save the system is preposterous. Organizations such as Fairtest, despite being as woefully ineffective as the EC, have the courage of their opinions, and a modicum of integrity to support them.</p>
<p>Thank you for posting the article. It is an interesting read. It correlates with my having just started to read The Overachievers. </p>
<p>My own kids are the overachiever types but the difference is we don't live in a competitive environment with all this admissions frenzy. My kids were not aware of college rankings. They didn't choose their activities or anything else with college admissions in mind. They did do well in school knowing that helps to get into college, of course. There wasn't a lot of talk with peers about colleges. The name of the college was not paramount though they wanted "good schools" that fit their specific criteria. It so happens they ended up at top picks on their list that are top schools, as well. The atmosphere depicted in these latest books and articles truly didn't exist in my kids' experiences, though I have learned that such an atmosphere is prevalent in many communities. </p>
<p>Epiphany, thanks for the remarks about the use of college counselors. As you likely know, I am a college counselor. I don't think that the image in these articles about going to a counselor to help a kid get in, is accurate for all who use such a service. Perhaps that does exist in some instances, but certainly not all and it is not in my experience. I don't get kids into colleges that they could not get into themselves. I don't groom them or anything like that. You are right that an independent counselor is doing the job basically of a guidance counselor but can devote unlimited one on one with a student that most GCs cannot do. Many want the assistance in navigating the college process. Not all who seek a college counselor are doing so as some perceived "advantage" to get into an elite school. They just want the help. I have counseled many clients who have CR/M SATs in the 900's combined or in the 1100's, for instance. I have had students with GPA's under 3.0. I have also had top students. All types have chosen to use a counselor to guide them through the process. It isn't quite the way it is depicted in the article.</p>
<p>Marite, Epiphany, et al.,</p>
<p>Are there people commenting/posting here that moved to another state to enhance their child's chances of getting into HYPS etc.? I find it sad that they would move their families for something like that, even though I'm not opposed to changing schools or school districts for personal reasons </p>
<p>In our community, it's fairly common to move from private to public schools to obtain top 10% status (to gain automatic admission to a public Texas college) or to change schools to play on a particular athletic team (we love sports). Maybe I'm being hypocritical but I draw the line at uprooting one's entire family and changing your lifestyle, as would be involved in moving from LA or Boston to underrepresented areas like West Virginia or New Mexico, simply because you're desperate for your child to attend Harvard.</p>
<p>DRJ:</p>
<p>No CC poster that I know of, but it was reported that one family in CA moved to a less good district so that their child would stand out. And of course, there is the thread on the Parents' cafe about white flight from districts with a high proportion of Asians...</p>
<p>DRJ4, my family considered moving to a different state for job-related reasons. Education was one of the factors considered when we were discussing whether to make the move.
I went to a wonderful public school in my home state, one with a stellar track record with high-level colleges. But I was nowhere near the top at that school. Frankly, my parents did the right thing by moving me to a new, underrepresented state--I stood out at my new school. It was a perk of moving and it made us glad.</p>
<p>Jimbob,</p>
<p>I agree that moving can be a great idea if you are moving for the big picture - job, schools, lifestyle, costs, etc. I think people should move in those instances. I'm intrigued by the idea that there are some/several/many people who will move to another state solely to increase their children's chances of admission to HYPS.</p>
<p>Marite,</p>
<p>You're right. The White Flight thread is the same thing, or at least it could be.</p>
<p>DRJ4, do you mean move out-of-state? I know TONS of families who move around in one area to be in a better public school district.</p>
<p>Mallomar,</p>
<p>Yes, I know families that move into other schools/districts and even nearby towns, but my question concerned people who move to underrepresented states solely because it enhanced their chance to get into HYPS. I haven't seen that yet but surely it's just around the corner, especially now that more people work online and can choose to live anywhere.</p>
<p>The more I think about this, the less it bothers me. We're a mobile society and people can move where they want for whatever reason they want. It might be hard on their kids, though.</p>
<p>DRJ meant, I think, families who uproot the family to move to an underrepresented state in elite admissions....say North Dakota or New Mexico, with the sole purpose in being beneficial in the admissions process rather than say, being another kid from Westchester County, NY or suburbs of Boston, etc. DRJ isn't talking of moving to get into a better school system. It's about moving to another state or area of the country as part of gaming and molding for admissions purposes only. This is about a geographical move for the family, not about a change of schools so much and certainly not to get a better education but rather to increase the odds on paper of being an applicant that is not from where so many applicants come from...sort of creating a "hook" of sorts.</p>
<p>I don't recall reading anyone here doing that but I do recall mention of someone knowing someone else or something of that sort, who DID do this, a long time ago on CC. I forget the details now...it may have been to North Dakota or some very rural impoverished area, though quite wealthy, something like that, in order to have a better perceived chance to get into the Ivy League and being from an underrepresented area. And yes, that is crazy, IMHO.</p>
<p>wait i assumed that the class of 2010 was the biggest. So now its the class of 2012?</p>
<p>Class of 2010 may have been the biggest to date but if they are reporting it will be the class of 2012, that may be cause the classes are getting bigger and bigger and that is the year it is to peak.</p>
<p>Soozievt,</p>
<p>Good post #30 and thanks ... You explained my point better than I did.</p>
<p>DRJ, we cross posted and I didn't know you were responding at the time but I understood what you meant and thought I would clarify on your behalf, not that you can't yourself, just didn't know if you were online. :)</p>
<p>hey xiggi:</p>
<p>Lloyd does have a plan of action...it just keeps changin'. LOL</p>
<p>He rails on two points: eliminate ED and eliminate testing. But, now, it appears that he wants to only allow two test sittings during grade 12, which, to me is contrary to his philosophy. If testing is too important now, with multiple sittings over multiple years, it would become even MORE important since kids would be limited to two sittings -- senior year -- which essentially means fall, when sports are in full swing, not to mention essays. Testing only senior year is just plain ludicrous, and would negatively impact poor test takers (and football players coming off a Friday night game).</p>
<p>I wonder where that leaves the rest of us...</p>
<p>I got into an Ivy without tutoring, prepping, doing the EC's I enjoyed, and my school counselors coudn't provide much help (Never had a kid apply to an Ivy before)</p>
<p>It's almost like if students like me are becoming a minority on these campuses and the odds are that students are being groomed for success.</p>
<p>I wonder, and this is the troubling question, is it better for our society to have a whole bunch of kids being groomed for success rather than discovering how to get their without advice?</p>
<p>DRJ4 that's already being done in China.</p>
<p>Ferny, obviously not. Most of those kids there aren't there with real ability, but still Ferny. You got lucky somewhere somehow, so it's never all your own work.</p>
<p>Unless of course you're an asian male from a middle class family, which I doubt.</p>
<p>Testing only in the fall of senior year has other problems. By early fall, a student's college list should have been firmed up and applications started. It is hard to formulate a balanced list of schools (reach, match, safety) if you can't ascertain if you are in the ballpark for particular schools and tests are ONE measure of doing that (clearly not the only measure). If one waits for test results in Nov. or Dec., that is too late. Also, like BB says above, it is jam packing way too much into the fall of senior year. I much prefer candidates to have their testing done by June of junior year and to leave fall for the application process, or possibly retaking a test or if needed, doing a missing SAT2 Subject test. For students whom I know who put off ANY testing until fall of senior year, they have left too much to too short a period of time, plus it is hard to evaluate their college lists without that one piece of data.</p>
<p>Hey, Soozie, I meant it. Your post was better than mine. I hope you will add your thoughts to mine anytime because I always benefit from reading your comments.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Ferny, obviously not. Most of those kids there aren't there with real ability, but still Ferny. You got lucky somewhere somehow, so it's never all your own work.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not questioning their ability. I'm questioning the fact that just browsing and talking to people in my class, I know that a lot of people did X, Y and Z just because parents/counselors told them to do it so that they could get into Yale. </p>
<p>I'm just questioning if this is what we want for our society, where kids aren't so much allowed to explore what they wish but are being pushed in certain directions to meet the ever growing expectations of getting into an Ivy League school.</p>
<p>I'm not going to deny that I probably had an unbelieable amount of luck, but my application process went something like this:</p>
<ol>
<li>Scores? Eh, I still don't know what they are, but just forward them along. </li>
<li>Ecs'? I did some, let me fill in.</li>
<li>Recomendations? I know these two teachers that like me.</li>
<li>Letter? Last summer was fun, let me write about that.</li>
</ol>
<p>
[quote
Unless of course you're an asian male from a middle class family, which I doubt.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't get this comment, mind giving me the context you are using it in?</p>