SUNY Buffalo vs. Rensselaer

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi all, I need some advice and I'm posting here because few people go to the SUNY Buffalo and Rensselaer forums</p>

<p>So for college, I'm basically down to my two safety schools: Rensselaer and SUNY Buffalo because my parents can't afford the other private schools on my list, as we would not receive any need-based aid. I know, Rensselaer is private, but I won the RPI medal which is given at a minimum of $15,000 per year, so my parents are confident they could pull off RPI, especially given an extra few thousand dollars with the initial $15,000. However, that still leaves ~$40,000 a year, compared to ~$15,000 a year at SUNY Buffalo (cost of attendance is ~$20,000 and I'm expecting the maximum $5,000 provost scholarship based on the stats of students who won it). </p>

<p>So my dilemma is: my parents can afford me to attend RPI, but is it worth the additional ~$35,000 a year? I plan on doing engineering, and I understand a RPI engineering degree is widely respected. But at SUNY Buffalo, I would be in the honors college, which appealed to me because I would get priority registration, separate housing, faculty mentor for 1 year and personal advisement. Although I dislike being in Buffalo because to me, it's in the farthest reach in the western part of NY while Troy is closer to other cities, etc, SUNY buffalo has a larger student body and is more diversified than RPI's, which is more science/math based and the gender ratio isn't that great. However, I am a math/science student and think like one so I think I would fit in such a student body (and Buffalo's as well). But what also deters me from Rensselaer is that Troy NY, while improving, isn't the nicest city. so lastly, would performing successfully and graduating from Rensselaer leave me with a better education and a more promising outlook for graduate and beyond than doing so at SUNY Buffalo?</p>

<p>Thanks!!</p>

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<p>Also, attending Rensselaer would make my parents be stretched a bit more thin financially once I enter grad school, and I hope to enter grad schools of MIT, Rice, Stanford caliber. By attending Buffalo, it wouldn’t be a problem at all, paying for grad schools.</p>

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<p>SUNY B is a perfectly respectable school for engineering, especially for undergrad. RPI is not worth 35K/year when you consider the starting salary for many bachelors of engineering is 40-75K/year. Work hard at SUNY B, and then pick a fancier school for grad school when the time comes. If you find out the RPI medal give you more, and this closes the equation financially for you, then that may be a better choice, but it is not at 35K/year.</p>

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<p>p.s. you have over 2,000 posts and you’re a high school student? Maybe you should get a job with all this time on your hands.</p>

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<p>I think if you want to go to the best school that you say your folks can afford, RPI offers a superior education. </p>

<p>I happen to be a big supporter of SUNYBuffalo as a destination for many students, but if you’re down to a 2-way choice between RPI and SUNYBuf, I lean to RPI.</p>

<p>Can you find what % of recent engineering undergrads from SUNY Buffalo actually went on to the kinds of grad schools you named above? If I were you, I’d want to know if it’s actually happened in practice, or just theoretical. Compare that to RPI. </p>

<p>It’s true, the close advisement from the Honors College at SUNY will provide you something much more intimate than the campus-at-large situation. </p>

<p>But if you <em>could</em> go to RPI, and your parents say now they can support it (albeit stretched thin for grad school years), perhaps you should go for it.</p>

<p>You’ve done a good job sizing up the differences between the two places - big v. small; gender imbalance (although, within the eng department at SUNYBuf, maybe a similar gender ratio??). Troy feels very isolated while Buffalo has a big, active suburban campus with city offerings downtown (we hope the Bills don’t leave us). </p>

<p>Students at RPI cope with the isolation by getting incredibly involved in the work. I’ve heard great things about the kinds of problems they tackle. The one brilliant student I know who graduated from there recently, who is very reserved in praise, is very full of praise for his professors and mentors at RPI. He got a masters (I think from RPI) and now has a job he really enjoys at IBM as a computer software engineer. </p>

<p>I think you could look forward with confidence following an education from RPI, and even plan someday to repay your folks some money if that eases your conscience about stretching them thin in grad school.</p>

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<p>You realize, of course, that you are asking THE question of the moment. Students are discovering that it’s possible to excel at a state university and go on to strong careers. But what you asked was whether the education at RPI is superior…and I believe it is. </p>

<p>You have to ask youself, "is it $35K x 4 worth of superior? But you don’t intend to stop with undergrad…you intend to take it all the way to a top grad school. So look at the entire plan, find out what kinds of salaries you’ll make someday after it’s ALL done. That will give you some perspective on whether it’s worth it to invest in a very strong undergrad program…if it will HELP you secure the spot at the top grad school, due to reputation. (That’s why I asked you to find out % of grads moving from each program into top grad schools, for real.) </p>

<p>And if you can do it ALL, and look at the salary after ALL this education, how many years would you work at those salaries to pay back the investment of $35K x 4?</p>

<p>I don’t know the math (that’s your task), but if you find out it’ll take you …let’s say:10 years… to be back to break-even, that tells you something important. How many years until you get back a complete return on your family’s early investment?</p>

<p>Just watch out that your family isn’t sacrificing their retirement, cashing in a pension, or planning huge parental loans to get you through the $35K x 4. You don’t want to wreck them in their old age.</p>

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<p>@Snowflake, I joined over 2 years ago and I do have a job actually that I work several times a week at and am also involved in after school clubs and tutoring.</p>

<p>I think right now I’m leaning a bit towards Rensselaer, because I feel I would be more academically challenged there (I know, engineering is a very challenging major in itself) and I think I would be more comfortable in a smaller class body. I can’t find any actual statistics on where undergraduates of SUNY Buffalo and RPI go after graduating unfortunately. The advisement from the honors college at buffalo is only for the first year though.</p>

<p>Right now I don’t intend on earning a Ph.D though because I’ve been told that that degree really isn’t necessary for engineering (correct me if i’m wrong). Just a masters</p>

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<p>

No help from the Career Center or Alumni Office? You might try a phone interview during business hours, rather than a website search for such info.</p>

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<p>Oh, Rensselaer has a new co-terminal program where a masters degree may be earned after 5 years. And any financial aid awards would be extended to that fifth year. Does anyone know much about this and if earning a masters degree through this program is the same in terms of reputation and study as attending another university for a masters for 2-3 years? If this works out, then this may be a significant factor in deciding.</p>

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<p>RPI has very limited career survey information (just average pay levels and ranges) here:
<a href=“Students | Career and Professional Development”>Students | Career and Professional Development;
Most of its career data points to NACE (national, not school specific) information.</p>

<p>Buffalo appears to have nothing other than pointers to NACE information.</p>

<p>Relatively few schools have detailed career survey information. Put “career survey” into the search boxes at berkeley.edu , calpoly.edu , and vt.edu to see what schools should be providing.</p>

<p>You may want to ask each school’s career center about what companies come to recruit students for your major.</p>

<p>If you go to graduate school in engineering, PhD programs are typically funded (fellowship, teaching assistantship, research assistantship). Master’s degree programs may not be, although some employers may pay for them. A master’s degree is not generally necessary to enter the work force in engineering.</p>

<p>What specific type of engineering are you interested in?</p>

<p>Still, it is pretty hard to justify an extra $100,000 over four years if the only reason is a dozen or so ranks in common ranking lists for engineering.</p>

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<p>Would you say earning a masters degree a year early is an incentive of attend rpi? I plan on doing biomedical engineering</p>

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<p>This might help you. Here is the most recent RPI career center annual report (2009 - 2010) that I could find. It has a lot more detail, including a list of graduate schools that students went to:</p>

<p>[Publication</a> Name:](<a href=“Students | Career and Professional Development”>Students | Career and Professional Development)</p>

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<p>UB’s School of Engineering has graduating senior survey data here:</p>

<p>[Graduating</a> Senior Survey](<a href=“http://www.eng.buffalo.edu/seniorSurvey/]Graduating”>Graduating Senior Survey)</p>

<p>It’s not specific as to major within the school, but looks like 1/4-1/3 of grads who responded in recent years went on to graduate school immediately (note that the responses do not include BME grads). The BME department is only 3-4 years old at UB and I’ve read that they’re planning to offer a BS/MS or BS/MBA option. You might email the department for more information on that.</p>

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<p>I’m guessing you live downstate. Having had kids and siblings in college on both sides of the state, I’d say there’s little to compare Troy/Albany to the Buffalo/Niagara region. I haven’t spent much time in Troy recently but it would have to be improving dramatically to compare with Amherst. Troy is a short drive from Albany, which isn’t exactly known to be a fun place to hang out either, but there’s not an integration into the city of Albany from RPI comparable to the way that UB is integrated with Buffalo. Neither school is terribly close to major cities, though flights to NYC are cheap and easy from both. Buffalo is fairly close to Toronto and plenty of UB students go into Canada for something different to do. Imo, the city of Buffalo has many interesting places that are easily accessible for students and UB’s campus life is quite vibrant.</p>

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<p>You’ll need to give your folks some time to look over the FA offers you get from both schools. Being confident they can “pull off” RPI sounds like it’s based on things staying the same or even improving and, as most of us parents know, that’s hard to predict. I don’t know how your folks are situated or if they’ve saved specifically for your education, but it’s sometimes a big temptation for parents to give their children the school they want by sacrificing retirement funds/home equity or taking on loans and that can wreak havoc on a family’s financial picture if something goes wrong down the road. I know several families who were solidly middle-class but experienced job losses and medical problems when their kids were college-aged. They not only couldn’t keep up with the tuition payments but were left with debt from expensive educations that don’t match the name on the diploma. Life happens, so imo it’s best to plan for the worst and hope for the best.</p>

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<p>

I don’t know if this makes a difference, but over the past 2 decades Buffalo has been in the process of developing a massive medical complex centered on Roswell Park Hospital, Buffalo General Hospital, etc. The UB medical school is involved as well. There could be more opportunities for finding research projects in Buffalo especially as you would be coming into a program that is still fairly new.</p>

<p>There is also a Medical Physics option.</p>

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<p>You are getting excellent advice here, and I’m sure you appreciate the guides to hard data from some with experience in engineering fields. </p>

<p>Not in that league, but I just did a quick-scratch comparison of entering mid-50% SAT ranges between RPI and SUNYBuf. While every school is what you make of it, I think it matters whom you routinely encounter throughout a student day, in terms of intellectual stimulation among peers. Mid-50% at SUNYBuf is (CR) 500-610, (M) 540-650, (W) no data. At RPI, it’s (CR) 610-700, (M) 670-750, (W) 580-685. I’m sure being in the Honors College mitigates that, but if your coursework is with the student body at large, you might not feel as intellectually challenged in some classes, especially distribution requirements, if peer SAT ranges can indicate that dynamic. The prof has to teach to the class in front of him. </p>

<p>It’s hard to know when parents say they’ll “stretch thin.” For some, that means they’ll go down to one car, or drive old cars; while for others, they get excited and start taking out very huge parent loans, cash out their pension, basically: go nuts. </p>

<p>Since you’ve written to the parents forum, we’re especially sensitive to that. Only you and your parents really know what THEY mean by “stretch thin” in order to afford your education. A deep family talk about finances is important now. You don’t want to shortchange yourself if they want to (and can) cover this; nor do you want to get them into deep trouble in their futures. Maybe you all can attach some dollar figures to what they mean by “stretch thin.” No need to tell us here, but it’s a private family understanding. </p>

<p>Some further perspective might be gained by asking questions at CC’s Engineering forum, about the masters program at RPI (within 5 years) versus taking it elsewhere for 2-3 years. And yes, that’s a way to save money! The person I know at IBM did the 5-year masters, all there. He’s 28, and feeling great. But anecdote = / = data.</p>

<p>I agree that socially and culturally SUNYBuf has, by far, the more vibrant campus life for most students. Amherst/Buffalo/Niagara/Toronto offers more than Troy/Albany. But some undergrads are happier and just fit in better with a smaller group of smarter students, who somehow manage to endure Troy by being creative with self-generated activities. </p>

<p>Thanks for bringing in the newest Biomedical developments at Buffalo. That is definitely worth exploring. What will it mean for undergrads v. grad students, uptown v. downtown campus, I wonder. And will it happen in time to affect him? OP can start easily by searching newspaper articles in The Buffalo News.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the data on graduating seniors! Are those really all the schools SUNY Buffalo undergraduates were accepted to after graduating? (I was looking at 2010). If so, I’m not sure now if SUNY Buffalo may be better. The Rensselaer booklet showed a lot more universities and top graduate schools too, particularly for engineering.</p>

<p>Yeah, I agree that Rensselaer would probably be more academically challenging and stimulating. I talked to my friend who goes to Rensselaer now and he said that just about everyone he knows has taken at least ap physics, ap calculus, etc. I know engineering would be a hard major to go through, at any college, but I would prefer being in a more academically stimulating and challenging atmosphere.</p>

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<p>Don’t know if you have other siblings at home but if there are, that is a consideration as well for your parents.</p>

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<p>Are you assuming this would not be true at UB? I’m sure that’s not the case and think you should talk with some current UB engineering students. Haven’t you visited or didn’t you interact with other students and professors there?</p>

<p>I wouldn’t evaluate at UB’s School of Engineering based on the overall average stats that paying3tuitions posted. First, they don’t apply to Engineering, which has its own admissions standards. Also, all of the majors at UB require that students apply after the 3rd semester and each has separate standards/pre-reqs, so I’m not sure that average freshman SAT scores for a big, comprehensive university are actually very meaningful at all. Some departments are very selective and the coursework is very demanding…others, not so much.</p>

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<p>My dtr is a sophomore in UB’s engineering program, she is majoring in Chemical eng. She is also in honors college and received their Pres scholarship. She has been challenged thus far and works hard to maintain 3.7.( she entered with 30 AP cr from HS and is minoring in math) Her fellow eng friends are very academically hard working and motivated and she has a well rounded group of friends, an international mix most majoring in eng or science, whom she connected with from freshman honors housing. Her professors and the honors college advisement have been accessible and productive. As a freshman she obtained a 10 week REU at the University of Iowa in chem eng with recs from her prof. She chose UB over Cornell and couldn’t be happier. The campus and surrounding area offer many social opportunities. I would strongly suggest you visit & sit in on classes as she did before deciding to go there as her visit at accepted students day and interaction with eng staff was what sealed the deal for her 2 year ago. She was also accepted to Rensselaer & visited but want a more balanced student body gender wise. I believe you can get equally good education, post grad placement & employment from either school, it comes down to fit & finances</p>

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<p>I can’t speak for Buffalo, but RPI was one of the safeties for my older son. I was quite impressed by the place. This sounded pretty interesting: [RPI:</a> News & Events - New Companies Join Incubator Program at Rensselaer](<a href=“http://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=2282]RPI:”>New Companies Join Incubator Program at Rensselaer | News & Events) They had a new arts center. Lots to like. The daughter of a friend of ours graduated in three years and went to grad school at Cornell (where she’d be rejected for undergrad.) Her brother is a sophomore there now and seems happy with his education as well. I also liked the fact that RPI was part of a consortium of colleges, though I think it may be the strongest of the bunch.</p>

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