<p>Oh C'MON...I'm just quoting the BESTEST movie EVARZ!</p>
<p>"Oh C'MON...I'm just quoting the BESTEST movie EVARZ!"</p>
<p>And with that I go to sleep...450am in Beijing...</p>
<p>Come on now, we don't need another Matt Foley. Hahahahahaahaha</p>
<p>subjectochange is obviously a troll. An unintelligent one. "America" in a traditional sense has an incredibly hetergenous culture which reflects the roots of the many different cultural groups that live here. Any description of culture beyond the Bill of Rights and Constitution will be woefully inadequate to describe both the depth and breadth of American culture.</p>
<p>""America" in a traditional sense has an incredibly hetergenous culture."</p>
<p>hahahahahhaa. </p>
<p>except for what happened to the NATIVE culture here that thrived before the European imperialists came?</p>
<p>YOU are the troll.</p>
<p>I'm not even sure how you are responding to my post. Want to elaborate?</p>
<p>? Payne said America has an incredibly heterogeneous culture...What does the downfall of the Native Americans have to do with American culture today. Last I saw, Native American culture (however distorted it may be) is still thriving within American Indian groups. Payne summed it up in this sentence:</p>
<p>"America" in a traditional sense has an incredibly hetergenous culture which reflects the roots of the many different cultural groups that live here."</p>
<p>His point is that it is somewhat difficult to say America has no culture because you are, in effect, disregarding the existence of western culture in general and the many societies that immigrated to America and brought their culture with them. I'm guessing that the point subject is trying to make is that America has no "original" culture because all of our culture is borrowed - i.e., the melting pot. But your argument is flawed because America, particularly in this modern day, has its own sense of identity and culture. Look around you. The music you hear, the movies you watch, the "English" of the United States, the society in which you live and the way that it all functions - all of these things are inherently American. I think you are having trouble seeing past the point that a good deal of American culture is partly based on the cultures of other nations, but what do you expect from the nation which was populated by immigrants? The fact that these cultures continue today is proof of this and in no way negates the fact that America has a distinct culture of its own.</p>
<p>200 years is not long enough to build a unique national culture, give it another 800 years at least. </p>
<p>And I do not agree that the American culture currently is all that heterogenenous, it is more like an overbearing fundamentalist ideology that attempts to overwrite other cultures domestically and abroad. I used the destruction of the Native American culture as an example. </p>
<p>Just a few days ago, Bush signed another ridiculous bill "The Iranian Freedom Act" or some ****. I love how America does not see the absurdness of discussing another sovereign nation's politics within her own Congressional halls, and actually going as far as signing a bill for another country. Man, I don't think this kind of stuff would float in any other country in the world today. So I guess you could say the United States is unique in that sense. We sign Bills for countries all over the world, and we make decisions for them too.</p>
<p>"And I do not agree that the American culture currently is all that heterogenenous, it is more like an overbearing fundamentalist ideology that attempts to overwrite other cultures domestically and abroad."</p>
<p>Abroad - I agree, but in more of a political sense with cultural implications than purely culturally. Much of American culture that may "overwrite" other cultures is out there for the taking and is adopted by other nations, not forced onto them. It is a consumer's market. If the people of another nation (like, for instance, Iran) want American culture and products, they willingly acquire these things.</p>
<p>"200 years is not long enough to build a unique national culture, give it another 800 years at least."</p>
<p>By this statement you are also implying that every South American nation, Central American nation, and Australia don't have unique national cultures. I disagree. Also remember that many nations within Europe have undergone complete revolutions, at least once and several times in some nations, and thus their "unique national culture" has been transformed. Many nations in the Middle East and Africa have undergone complete transformations within the last thousand years, so their national culture has changed. While the root of the culture may be the same, their cultures have evolved. </p>
<p>I haven't heard about the Iranian Freedom Act. Are you sure it's not Iraqi Freedom Act? Do you have a link?</p>
<p>subjecttochange,</p>
<p>I don't see how our hegemonic status somehow has anything to do with our so-called lack of a culture.</p>
<p>And the US culture developed over more than 200 years. You realize, I assume, that there were colonies before the War, right?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Just a few days ago, Bush signed another ridiculous bill "The Iranian Freedom Act" or some ****. I love how America does not see the absurdness of discussing another sovereign nation's politics within her own Congressional halls, and actually going as far as signing a bill for another country.
[/quote]
Because those oh-so-cultured British never passed laws on behalf of India. And the French never passed laws on behalf of the Haitians. And the Spanish never did it on behalf of the Incans and Aztecs?</p>
<p>What does this have to do with anything?</p>
<p>And how is 200 years not enough? The Japanese totally altered their culture over the span of about 75 years.</p>
<p>Um, you are comparing United States to Imperial Europe, and how is Iran even an American colony? </p>
<p>Why is it so hard for Americans to learn to respect other sovereign nations? Why do Americans think they know what's best? Why does their idea of what's best for the ME reek of neo-imperialism and capitalistic expansion? </p>
<p><a href="http://www.nysun.com/article/40600?page_no=2%5B/url%5D">http://www.nysun.com/article/40600?page_no=2</a> </p>
<p>I didn't notice this until today either. The media was too busy covering stupid crap like "Foleygate". But I am sure you people think America has responsible, unbiased, and diligent media as well.</p>
<p>Wait...so it's okay if a country makes another country a colony and directly infringes upon their sovereignty, but otherwise, it's wrong?</p>
<p>I'm confused.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Um, you are comparing United States to Imperial Europe, and how is Iran even an American colony?
[/quote]
The British started legislating how India (and parts of Africa and teh Middle East) ought to be run well before they were actually colonies. </p>
<p>
[quote]
you are comparing United States to Imperial Europe
[/quote]
You're the one trying to claim that America's foreign policy somehow ties into it's lack of culture.
Or are you just drifting totally off-topic?</p>
<p>"Why is it so hard for Americans to learn to respect other sovereign nations? Why do Americans think they know what's best? Why does their idea of what's best for the ME reek of neo-imperialism and capitalistic expansion? "</p>
<p>Why can't you realize that Pavs just gave several examples of nations throughout history that have done the same thing? America is not unique in this matter! While that doesn't mean it's right, you can't argue that America somehow has no culture and that it imposes its culture upon others while, at the same time, disregarding other nations like Britain, France, etc. that have done the same thing, yet, in your opinion, do have unique national cultures.</p>
<p>Basically, what I'm learning from this thread is that subjecttochange is unable to respond to most valid arguments and so refuses to address them, instead rambling on about something completely irrelevant. He/She also fails to see the logic behind many of the arguments being made, at which point I know continuing in this endeavor is pointless. So I'm through here...enjoy. :D</p>
<p>P.S. - thanks for the link though...I hadn't heard a/b that act.</p>
<p>We have already brought upon ourselves demise. The only catalyst left is time. ;)</p>
<p>* [Discourteous comment deleted - Mod JEM]*
Axiom One: Aspects of culture that are advanced and desirable will spread SPONTANEOUSlY to other cultures. </p>
<p>Example: The spread of European Enlightenment ideals to America, and modern science to everywhere. The spread of Confucian ideals from China to Korea and Japan. The spread of Buddhism from India to China then to Japan and Korea. </p>
<p>Corollary of Axiom One: The spread of inferior and undesirable culture is not spontaneous, but is achieved through violence and war. </p>
<p>Examples: Spread of Christianity to South America, Africa and Asia. Islam to Africa. </p>
<p>Fact One: The spread of American democracy or "way of life" or whatever has always been done through violence and war. </p>
<p>Example: Japan, Philipines, post WWII Europe, ongoing affair in the Middle East. </p>
<p>By Fact One, and corollary of Axiom one, one could conclude that American culture is fundamentally inferior and undesirable. </p>
<p>Proof for this: The Europeans embraced American democracy and culture during their reconstruction period post WWII, but as soon as they got back on their feet, they began to break away from American influence. I remember touring Europe last year, from Barcelona to Paris to Berlin, people were all telling me how much they hate Bush and American politics and culture. I remember when I waited in line to get on the Eiffel Tower, two American tourists were talking loudly in front of me in their typical arrogant American accent, and a couple of French youth started to yell slurs at them, something about yanks and "Americaines". </p>
<p>The spread of American culture is like a chemical reaction that is unfavourable thermodynamically. Sure, you could push it toward the products side if you put work into it, and in this case violence, but as soon as that external force is stopped, it will revert back to the left side of the equation, and which is the rejection of American culture.</p>
<p>"Corollary of Axiom One: The spread of inferior and undesirable culture is not spontaneous, but is achieved through violence and war. </p>
<p>Examples: Spread of Christianity to South America, Africa and Asia. Islam to Africa."</p>
<p>While I am not Christian, I disagree strongly with this idea. So are you saying the religions of South America that sacrificed thousands are superior to that of Christianity? While I don't advocate any organized religion, I can certainly see how some religions are better than others, merely based on the civility expressed in those religions. By your statement and example, Chirstianity is an "inferior and undesirable culture," but that statement suggests a comparison. Inferior to what? A religion that embraces human sacrifice?</p>
<p>Your logic is flawed. Much of American democracy and "way of life" has been adopted by peoples, not forced. Yes, America is in no way perfect and has pushed democracy on nations such as the Phillippines against their will. However, I can name quite a few countries that have adopted American ideals by their own free will because, while the democratic free market system is not perfect, it is better than what many of those nations had before.</p>
<p>As for the European trip example, it is only natural that those nations would want to break away from American influence and not remain in America's shadow. Hell, I'm an American and I can't stand Bush or American politics as of present. But that doesn't mean American culture is and has always been inferior. I hate to use the old cliche argument, but perhaps you should have reminded those French youths why they were not speaking German and why they were allowed the freedoms that they take for granted. </p>
<p>It is so easy to forget...</p>
<p>
[quote]
The spread of Confucian ideals from China to Korea and Japan.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is only PARTLY true. The Chinese were more than willing to spread their beliefs through threat of force. Korea was a tributary state for quite a while.</p>
<p>Oh, and watch it with the insults.</p>
<p>"Axiom One: Aspects of culture that are advanced and desirable will spread SPONTANEOUSlY to other cultures.</p>
<p>Example: The spread of European Enlightenment ideals to America, and modern science to everywhere. The spread of Confucian ideals from China to Korea and Japan. The spread of Buddhism from India to China then to Japan and Korea."</p>
<p>You have no idea what you are talking about, do you? The spread of American pop and high culture in the 20th century was far more "spontaneous" than any of these events.</p>