<p>In another recent thread (what was the college?,) nearly identical words: school administrator who DISCOURAGED her from filing criminal charges, and led her to believe that the college procedures would be faster and less harrowing.</p>
<p>Then we heard that was misinterpretation, that what the college had suggested was the victim immediately begin working with the school’s rape counseling center (however it was titled) for support and advice. </p>
<p>Do we KNOW the college actively discouraged her, considering the provisions of Title IX which are in contrast?</p>
<p>My son’s middle school discouraged him “making an official complaint” regarding bullying, in which he complained about bullying and that he feared his friend (which they interpreted to be code for himself, but it was definitely his friend) wanted to kill himself. I talked to the counselor, and they basically convinced me “it was better for him if the bullying was not reported and we take care of it ourselves”.</p>
<p>Nothing is worse to the mind of a bureaucrat, and I mean NOTHING, than having to “open a file” and “create an investigation”. That’s why the investigations should NOT be in the hands of the school or the college, there should be OUTSIDE investigations ASAP or significant fines to the school or college.</p>
<p>There is a $1,000 fine in my state if a public school teacher has any sign of child abuse of one of their students, and they do not report it to the state child welfare agency - DIRECTLY by the person who observed the situation. I feel that the on-campus sexual assault process needs to be handled in the exact same manner - anyone who works for the college who hears about such a case MUST report it. The exception being the Counseling Center or religious personnel (actual ordained, not teachers at a religiously-affiliated college).</p>
<p>is a quote from the prez of HWS, This is what the NYTs says the young woman said in the original NYT article:</p>
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<p>HWS also posted this webpage and have reported expelling several students in the past as well as reporting that they do have a Title IX coordinator on staff and claim to have followed Title IX in their process.</p>
<p>Discouraged him and his parents? And the parents agreed? The college I work for has a complaint up now that seems to have flown under the radar. What surprises me is they had a much more publicized case in recent enough memory. I consider it a fail that they aren’t publicly responding better. But, even on ground level, on campus, it is very hard to get straight stories. The supposed facts are murky. As one poster frequently comments on these threads, it’s very hard to get any sort of facts straight when alcohol is involved. I am not sure why we assume a newspaper is any better at this than a judicial committee.</p>
<p>The list of schools with sexual complaints includes some pretty elite colleges. Punishment is “after the fact,” after the damage is done. The issue is to stop the problem behavior. And, sorry, but the lessons have to start in hs or even ms. For males and for females. </p>
<p>Don’t mistake any of this for lack of empathy. I just note how often people blame the admins. when it starts well before that. </p>
<p>^^ Yes or have faculty that go renegade like they did at Duke - I’m not sure any position in the current college structure is better suited than another to adjudicate on criminal issues so IMO it doesn’t matter much what the background is - sure plagiarism and other such things make sense for educators, but criminal…I’m not convinced. </p>
<p>College administrators and faculty have an interest in protecting their institution. That can go either way in one of these cases depending on which way the wind is blowing at a particular time. In a criminal court, you get a jury that (supposedly, anyway) doesn’t have those kinds of influences.</p>
<p>@Hunt. The DNA evidence in this case would be helpful since the guys claimed not to have had sex with her, at all. Plus vaginal tearing and semen in the rectum? I’m pretty sure it would make a case</p>
<p>In the Connecticut case, 900,000 of that settlement was awarded to a girl who was kicked off the hockey team for reporting the rape. This is the kind of stuff that’s been de riguer for far too long</p>
<p>How the wind blows often depends on what’s actually laid in front of the committee. There is no saying an admin or staffer is any less vested in a proper outcome than faculty. You can look at various colleges and what their own procedures are- usually in some code of conduct or similar public documents. Title IX also includes how they are supposed to be trained, etc. What makes people think this is frivolous?</p>
<p>They admitted to oral sex. Of course, she says she was raped by the three of them. Do you believe a second week freshman had consensual anal sex?</p>
<p>Me? Personally, No.<br>
I’m being a bit legalistic. I suspect this was awful, heinous, deserving of punishment. But how do they get from here to there? </p>
The point was about tenured faculty versus non-tenured faculty. The latter have much less job security and may be more prone to take the company line. As for protecting the institution, my experience is that deans and other administrators care much more about PR and the bottom line than do rank-and-file faculty members. </p>
Two members of the Hobart committee apparently never saw important forensic evidence. As I noted above, the issue for me is more one of job security, although I still feel that staff and administration will be less independent. </p>
<p>The Duke case is a bit of a red herring. Yes, 88 faculty members (a small fraction of the total faculty) signed a letter (and made fools of themselves). That tells you little about how faculty members perform in disciplinary hearings at Duke or elsewhere. </p>
<p>It is reported/suggested that the NY Times cherry picked pieces of the conversation from the transcript (re #35) which just shows that the media is going to say and report what makes a strong story. I cannot “pass judgement” on how the administrative hearings went based on an extracted quote or two. I agree in point with what you say coase in post 36 but it also shows how people, especially untrained people and people like you and I or any outsider not in receipt of all the facts, could easily make erroneous assumptions. I don’t think Duke faculty situation was a ‘red herring’, the rush to judgement without ownership of the facts is not that infrequent, but in this case the faculty joined the hew and cry.</p>
<p>The local police have also repeatedly said they have a history of working with this college on previous assault incidents and apparently at least one conviction. It is dangerous in my opinion for young people to think that these are two parallel systems of investigation and adjudication and it is dangerous to think that it is as simple as a matter of “choice.” </p>
<p>This incident is also under Title IX investigation so the college will either be found to have followed procedure or not, just like the other 60 colleges but I doubt the public will be privy to many of the facts surrounding these individual cases. </p>
<p>I cannot fathom why people would even allow or worse yet choose colleges to investigate and adjudicate something as criminal as rape…we certainly would never consider having a college investigate and adjudicate something like attempted murder or murder and in my mind they are all egregious breaches of laws that are commonly held by communities. </p>
<p>Colleges need to investigate and adjudicate crimes on their campus in a parellel way, and they need to bring the police on campus to investigate any crime. But, and I feel this will, in the end, be the standard, they should use the same level of proof necessary for a civil suit in order to keep rapists out of their schools.</p>
<p>They have rules, many of these schools, which require one or two year on campus residencies. Once you require residency, you become responsible on a tremendous level for what is happening on that campus. But, and this is the important thing, beyond a reasonable doubt is too tough a standard for a civil case, and should not be applied to a college case, either. </p>