<p>How many ‘rapists’ are in jail and later cleared? I have no idea what happened in this case, but neither does anyone but those involved. The rest is speculation and it is sad to me when we jump to conclusions either way.</p>
<p>What we do know: don’t expect a college (or anyone other than the police/DA) to investigate a crime</p>
<p>I think preponderance of evidence CAN be strong enough but if you have no witnesses, you have no evidence, you have nothing but one person’s word you don’t have preponderance and i think that is where this case failed. Even the alcohol test failed this young woman because the level was not high enough for the police to presume incapacitation. All the pieces were in place, the police, the trip to the hospital for a rape kit but it appears no witnesses to corroborate the story and a reluctance on the part of the victim to press charges so they could even do a DNA match. What would you do - what was the preponderance of evidence - we don’t know if there was a preponderance of evidence of even a smidgeon…we suspect there was, but a college can’t adjudicate on a hunch and the college knows that. </p>
<p>I thought the alcohol test was reported as twice the legal limit.
In reading the recent link, all sorts of questions come to mind. </p>
<p>About time, these schools get the spotlight for these issues that are always done in closed doors with no definite resolution that will prevent its occurrence.
Hobert & WS is a good school, but just like many other schools rape case are not given the proper attention as they should. So good to see that these things are changing.</p>
<p>
You are cherry-picking in reporting this. For a different perspective, read through the comments on the change.org petition. Even the Hobart facebook page has testimonials. Here is one of the recent comments.<br>
<a href=“Hobart and William Smith Colleges | Geneva NY”>https://www.facebook.com/hwscolleges</a>
Let me continue with my own cherry-picking. If you are going to criticize the motives of others, you should at least acknowledge your own:
<a href=“Colleges you (surprisingly?) loved after visiting :) - #13 by momofthreeboys - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums”>Colleges you (surprisingly?) loved after visiting :) - #13 by momofthreeboys - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums; </p>
<p>
<a href=“Life at Hobart and William Smith - #25 by momofthreeboys - Hobart and William Smith Colleges - College Confidential Forums”>Life at Hobart and William Smith - #25 by momofthreeboys - Hobart and William Smith Colleges - College Confidential Forums;
There is nothing wrong with being smitten by a school, but it may be affecting your reaction to this issue. </p>
<p>It’s really not a problem specific to HWS. You can google rape and put in any college name and find this problem. College campuses have been extremely dangerous for women, in terms of rape, for a very long time now. Decades, at least. </p>
<p>As the DOJ has only recently begun to put pressure on colleges to address this, it’s unsurprising we are hearing so many horror stories. It’s also new that the survivors are willing to come forward and tell their stories. </p>
<p>For too long, students did not understand the risk, not at the fundamental level it exists, and neither did their bill paying parents. Now, it’s becoming clearer, and that will help students to take proper precautions. </p>
<p>In the meantime, schools and the Courts will begin to arrive at some standards other than the ones they’ve had for so long, which were designed mainly to keep this rape problem hidden. </p>
<p>
This is actually a very good question. My gut reaction is, “Of course not.” But what is the basis for my belief? Do I actually know anything about how common this practice is among high school students today? This is a tricky thing about evidence. I took to heart an example we were given in law school about a man who was arrested for a bank robbery. The key evidence against him was that several cut-off womens’ stocking tops were found in his room, and the robber wore a stocking top as a mask. Why would he have these if he wasn’t the culprit? It turned out that (according to this example, anyway) stocking tops of this kind were frequently used by African-American men when working in kitchen jobs (if I recall the details correctly).</p>
<p>I’m not necessarily trying to defend HWS or anybody else–I’m just pointing out that it’s not so easy to judge evidence if you’re not the person seeing it firsthand, or even then.</p>
<p>" Do you believe a second week freshman had consensual anal sex? "</p>
<p>I don’t find it unbelievable. What I find less believable is that she didn’t choose a safe environment for the experience. And this woman was indicating by text to a friend she was worried about what was happening around her. That a second week freshman has consensual sex with a number of men in the public common area of a fraternity house is unbelievable to me. Especially if they then immediately lie about it. Obviously I’m not a lawyer.</p>
<p>Yeah. Well. At some point, like the report of having had a knife held to your throat while being mugged, we apply common sense. The young woman texted her friend she was scared. The texts are retrievable. She obtained a rape kit. The men initially lied about having contact with her. Her BAC was too high to consent. And she was an 18 year old second week freshman. I think consensual anything at all could not occur with that BAC. But, the likelihood she had consensual anal sex is so slim, it might cause “reasonable” doubt in a criminal court but not a civil court. Not with all of the rest of it. </p>
<p>All that said, holding the “hearing” before the rape kit evidence was in is negligent, at best. </p>
<p>Re post #44 actually no, after three kids there are at least 100 if not more schools that I like for various reasons including the one my third attends that is also on the investigation list. I am very interested in how as a society we handle the expansion of Title IX, the inconsistencies in local, regional and national judicial activities surrounding rape or sexual assault and what appears to be a slight move of feminist advocates to want “protection” something at my advanced age I fought “against” as a young woman, preferring to be treated equally. I am interested how and when we as a society will handle alcohol abuse by our young people and the need to navigate that issue relative to sexual abuse issue on college campuses since they are tangential. </p>
<p>HWS is just one of many, many colleges that are dealing with issues surrounding their adjudication of reported sexual assaults and in my opinion at this point of time I would, if shepherding a kid through the college process, not eliminate say, Harvard or Michigan or even HWS simply because the college is going through a Title IX investigation. I can separate my intellectual interest in these lawsuits from an emotional reaction to the entirety of an educational institution. </p>
<p>Let me ask you a question @Hunt. If a second week freshman boy had semen in his rectum and a lot to drink, and claimed he was raped, what would your reaction be? </p>
<p>^excellent. I absolutely believe second week freshmen boys have consensual anal sex and if they claim rape I believe them, It won’t occur to me they are crying wolf.</p>
<p>
My reaction would be what it is for any case: “What are all of the available facts?” Why should changing the gender of the accuser change that?</p>
<p>(Note: I was pilloried for making similar points in the lengthy Sandusky thread, so I think I’m consistent on this.)</p>
<p>I was just curious. For me, the presence of semen would indicate unprotected sex, and I believe the simple fact of unprotected anal sex, male or female, indicates a probable lack of consent. But, that said, sex with multiple partners in a public place, after texting she was scared, with that BAC, indicates rape much more strongly than consent.</p>
<p>
I don’t disagree at all. But I would note that a child dying after being left in a hot car indicates an accident much more strongly than murder–until you get more facts. So even when the facts seem really, really strong, I always want to know if there are more facts we aren’t hearing about.</p>
<p>I’m not trying to pillory you @Hunt. I’m just asking.</p>
<p>I don’t feel pilloried by you, @poetgrl. In lots of discussions, I find myself in the corner saying, “Well, yes, but what’s the other side of the story, if there is one?” Usually, the story is what it appears to be.</p>
<p>In this case the story is that the high school & the district blew it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“In handling rape, high schools are worse than colleges | Al Jazeera America”>http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/america-tonight/articles/2014/7/18/on-rape-high-schoolsareworsethancolleges.html</a></p>
<p>One tires of this, no? Insufficient evidence? Even he admitted it. </p>
<p>Well, you know. Don’t want to “ruin a boys life.” </p>
<p>It’s a sad reality we are living with right now.</p>
<p>Emerald do you know if the girl (or her parents since she is a minor) file a police report and press charges? When this came up in my son’s high school (a female accusing a male of rape), the police were all over it and with the support of the school. The investigation took several months.</p>