<p>.378, that’s a lot of alcohol.</p>
<p>@cardinal fang “That’s a lot of alcohol.”</p>
<p>Yes, a whole lot. They must have been doing shots. I don’t think it is possible to get it that high with beer.</p>
<p>Now he is dead and at least 4 of the fraternity members are facing related felony charges. So now the disaster will grow. </p>
<p>I don’t understand why we don’t get a handle the behavior of Fraternities. Instead, the alcohol-related deaths and rapes and Hazing accidents continue.</p>
<p>It is very sad for everyone involved.</p>
<p>He was a type 1 diabetic</p>
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<p>My posts on this sound like a broken record. Absolutely nothing has come from the parties that could and should take action. Very few schools have done something positive. Most are following in the steps of that spineless shell who now left Dartmouth to head the UN. </p>
<p>The only solution is to kick every frat off campus and make the participation by students a honor violation subject to immediate expulsion. No visible presence and a relentless pursuit of the underground. The problem is not the presence of liquor … it is the behavior and stupidity of frat boys. </p>
<p>“behavior and stupidity of frat boys”…what about the poor choices and horrific consequences of students who without their helicopter parents making decisions for them do not know how to be responsible for their own behavior? Typical of this mentality to blame others for the poor choices of these children. No one is forced to join a fraternity or partake in a fraternity sponsored event. Alcohol related deaths, injuries and rapes are not solely related to fraternities. Being a member of a fraternity does not make one foster a culture of rape or promote drinking. I would also be careful with your labeling of fraternity members as stupid…do some research. These young men are usually of high intelligence and are active in many campus groups such as research, charities, politics, athletics, etc…I agree that guidelines need to be enforced and Greek culture has to be made aware and responsible for their actions, but to “kick every frat off campus” is not the answer. Against fraternities? Don’t join one. Don’t attend their parties and events. But they have every right to exist, just like the groups who are protesting and making unreasonable demands at their universities for everything from gender neutral bathrooms to the use of the word “womyn” instead of “woman.” Enough with the bashing of fraternities, lets instead focus on allowing our children to become confident adults who make safe choices and stop blaming others when they don’t. </p>
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<p>Welcome to the club where misdirection and denial reign supreme! No real surprise as your response is entirely typical and has adorned these forums for quite some time. In my case, I can go back to at least ten years since that dates the time I lost a dear friend to his poor choice to trust a new band of brothers.</p>
<p>My friend’s family has turned anger into compassion and has worked diligently to curb the existing cancerous practices of “more” than a few organizations. That proactive approach has not made much difference in terms of statistics. Every year young people continue to die because of their poor choices – to borrow your line of thought. </p>
<p>There is a different reality. Without the presence on campus from the organizations that are directly responsible for most incidents, the numbers would dwindle. Does that mean that there aren’t other nefarious organizations that have been tolerated to engage in hazing, discrimination, and violence? Absolutely, but that does not change that the solution is to revert to an academic world that should be about education more than about providing 24/7 entertainment. </p>
<p>Fraternities have had plenty of changes to clean their own stables. All they have done is engage in legal battles to protect their own and ensure their own survival. Schools remain highly complicit and duplicitous as they fear a repercussion in their wallet and relations with alumni. </p>
<p>The bottom line remains the same. There are NO reasons why Greek life HAS to be part of universities, and plenty of reason it should not be! Our only problem is that we, as a society, react forcefully when there are threats such as virii or threats of terrorism, but continue to ignore the toll taken by the stupidity of teenagers masqueraring as frat boys and frat leaders. </p>
<p>I do not care to convince you as people who embrace or support Greek life are beyond convincing. It is also a given that the proposed self-control and rules have shown to be totally ineffective. After all, there was one member who sounded a lot like you. And many around here know that his spirited defense and his eloquence did not stop him from … dying in the precise circumstances he so wanted to protect as a right. </p>
<p>What I hope the next generations will see if enough push and support for the schools that are trying to do the right thing. If logic does not work, perhaps we ought to try to shame the type of individual like Dartmouth’s spineless former boss. We do NOT need to convince frat members. We only need to convince the people who could make their life miserable all to way to eradication. </p>
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<p>How profoundly sad. Without veering too much into politics, how much longer will we allow alcohol, violence in sports, firearms, a macho culture in regards to women, etc. to ruin young people’s lives?</p>
<p>I’m not a big fan of drinking in any form, but at least beer consumption is somewhat “self policing.” Hard liquor has no place on a college campus or in places frequented by UGs, and whoever provides it should be vigorously prosecuted. </p>
<p>Everyone is freaked out about Ebola, but alcohol (and flu and guns and inattentive driving) kill many more. </p>
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<p>What are your reasons for singling him out when you acknowledge there are many others like him.</p>
<p>@cbreeze, I can’t speak for xiggi, who does a fine job of that himself, but I would single out Dartmouth because I think it’s a great school whose reputation has suffered enough that I, for example, strongly discouraged my child from applying to it. It has a reputation for excessive drinking, and from what I’ve heard from students and alumni, it is a deserved reputation. </p>
<p>Do I know that there is more binge drinking there than at Yale? No. Am I happier with my son at Yale than Dartmouth? Yes, and the drinking culture is a part of it. </p>
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<p>There are several reasons for Kim singling out:</p>
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<li>Jim Yong Kim was a physician and anthropologist. He was formerly the Chair of the Department of Global Health and Social Medicine at Harvard Medical School.<br></li>
<li>He was (and is) a powerful political figure</li>
<li>He could (and should) have made forceful and long-term changes at Dartmouth. He did focus on global health and inspired several programs that deserve kudos. Yet, he also mostly ignored the safety of his students at Dartmouth
-His response to the hazing incident at Dartmouth is WHY I singled him out. Simply stated, he was in a position to make drastic changes, and decided that it was best to protect his own image, and … move on to greener pastures such as the World Bank (Not the UN I incorrectly posted earlier)</li>
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<p>The point is that he would have been a perfect candidate to take tougher stances. He had the background to understand the issues --not always the case of professional administrators-- and took the easy way out by pandering to the usual external pressures. </p>
<p>And that is why I call him spineless. The fact that others are doing the same is not a excuse. Much is expected from the ones much has been given. </p>
<p>Dartmouth has a reputation for hard drinking and it just isn’t recent. It was well-known when I was looking at colleges back in the ages. However, I am curious why Xiggi is pointing to this one man, out of so many former Presidents at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>I hope the answers satisfy cbreeze’s curiosity. </p>
<p>Regarding former Presidents of Dartmouth, Kim’s reaction to the VERY real problem of hazing at Dartmouth was very different from his predecessor (James Wright) and most people should have no problems finding direct sources that made national news during Kim’s months at Dartmouth. </p>
<p>What happened at Dartmouth were NOT obscure incidents. </p>
<p>How much of the trouble in fraternities (including hazing, rape, etc.) is alcohol-fuelled?</p>
<p>Perhaps an effective reform would be to require any campus recognized fraternities to have completely substance-free (including alcohol-free) houses, and all fraternity sponsored events must be reported to the police and campus administration in advance and be substance-free. Unannounced inspections of the houses and events will be conducted to ensure compliance.</p>
<p>Also, any pledge tasks must be listed in writing and given the the pledges and the campus administration before the pledges commit. Or eliminate pledging, so that anyone invited to join becomes a full member immediately if he accepts a bid.</p>
<p>It would be much harder to argue against such rules (versus a complete ban), since the usually-promoted positive aspects of brotherhood, service, etc. do not require alcohol, whose purchase and possession is not legal for most traditional-age college students anyway.</p>
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<p>I agree with everything that xiggi said, but I think the above point by ucbalumnus is especially important.</p>
<p>I think, for those that are bothered about everything going on in the fraternity systems, should first concentrate on eliminating the pledging. It should be a more attainable goal. Almost all the deaths due to alcohol overdose are in pledge hazing scenarios, although most of the time they are reported as “parties.” </p>
<p>If these people have to die, at least let it be their own choice, not something they are coerced into doing by their superiors in an organization. </p>
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<p>Any college-related activity which involves students either choosing to die, or being coerced into dying, should be extinguished. </p>
<p>This behavior has been around a very, very long time and celebrated (think “Animal House”). I know there was a death at my university in the late 1980’s. It can’t be blamed on helicopter parenting - kids unable to make their own decisions without Mom and Dad - as my generation grew up playing outside until the street lights came on. The roots of bad boy, drinking behavior go so deep in American culture that you’d have to be pretty idealistic to think you’d eradicate it by just getting rid of fraternities. I saw similar behavior at parties of all four ROTC branches, people gathered who had similar majors, etc. the guys in the apartment below me - none were in a fraternity, could party with the best of them. Drinking culture (and issues) in this country are the real issue. It’s implied in all media that you can’t have fun without some sort of drink in your hand. You combine that with an age group that thinks nothing bad will ever happen to them - and you get kids funneling beer, taking shots of liqueur until they are stumbling around, prey for those with nefarious intentions, and unconscious with their fellow drunks. </p>
<p>Far be it from me to interrupt your orgy of Dartmouth-bashing, but FYI the <em>fraternities</em> at D–not the administration-- have just unilaterally decided to do away with pledge term. </p>
<p>But do carry on. </p>
<p>I’m sorry, but I have to comment on this:</p>
<p>Thread title-- ‘Another fraternity party death’
Most recent post by-- ‘Consolation’</p>
<p>Uhm, coincidence?</p>
<p>^actually, the fraternities decided this after much pressure from the administration, in particular due to the fact applications dropped so much in a cycle that saw peer institutions record big increases (and some fraternities are still grumbling/are unavailble for comment).</p>
<p>I think the situation has changed in the past 5-10 years. I’m not sure what to attribute it to.</p>