Support for ADD and Executive Function

Parents Forum
21

Some schools also have courses in management, either for credit or just for the first month, that can benefit a lot of students. They teach organization as well as get the students involved. One of my kids (the one who DIDN’t need it!) had to take a one credit ‘freshman experience’ class. The met a few time to review how things were going, but mostly they had assignments like ‘go to one sporting event’ or ‘go to the writing lab for one session.’ They had to swipe their ID’s to get credit for attending.

That kid was also an athlete so she had to go to study tables for 8 hours per week her first semester (or until she made a 3.0 gpa). It really instilled good study habits and taught her set aside a good deal of time to study and not just depend on ‘finding the time.’

I think your daughter will do fine, but she may need more reminder calls than the average student. Office hours, study tables (or group), joining a club in her major will all help. It’s an adjustment to going from 8-3 high school to a class at 9 am, off from 11 to 1, another class at 1 and another at 2. Time gets away from them.

22

“If the semester is 15 weeks long and an executive function coach (clearly the standard adviser didn’t provide what you needed) has to meet with a student for 30 minutes a week, that’s 7.5 hours of time. $20/hr? $50? That’s a lot of money per student. Giving extra time for a test costs very little if anything.”

Actually, extra time on tests costs just as much, because they have to provide a proctor for the testing, staff the testing center, pay staff to liaise with professors to make sure they have the tests at the test center on time and know whether the tests are open book, can use calculators, etc.

The academic coaches are already on staff and are in the office whether they have student appointments or not. The coach my son worked with often had free time that was not booked, so she would just sit in her office and study (she was a grad student). She still got paid for those hours. The school will happily provide 7.5 hours (or more, if the student wants/needs more) of academic coaching per semester to any student who asks for it. They just won’t provide the kind of help, during those 7.5 hours, that a student with EF issues needs. It wouldn’t take any more time for one of the on-staff academic coaches to sit with a student, look over their schedule for the week, ask questions about their study plans, double-check that they are on track with all their assignments, make suggestions, etc. But there is almost a moral judgement that students shouldn’t need help with that stuff once they’re over 18. Which, IMO, is like expecting someone who is dyslexic or dyspraxic or has APD to suddenly no longer have those issues simply because they’re now in college.

ADHD isn’t something a person “grows out of,” and although To Do lists and smart watches can help a bit with some tasks, they don’t begin to address the underlying problems, which are often life-long issues for people with serious EF deficits. Many people with ADD solve that problem by marrying someone without ADD and delegating EF tasks to their partner. And at work, they will delegate EF tasks to secretaries, personal assistants, and other employees — or they find jobs where the tasks are repetitive and don’t require organization and planning, or where they are told exactly what to do when, etc.

It just really bugs me that people do not consider the EF component of ADHD to be a disability in the same way that dyslexia or APD or other life-long issues are. The cognitive issues are much more complex than just being “slow” or “spacey”; there are structural differences in the brain that make it difficult to organize one’s thinking in the kind of linear, logical way that neurotypical people are expected to do. It’s not a moral failing, or a sign of laziness or immaturity to need real, on-going help with organization. Yet the attitude seems to be “well, you’re an adult now, we’re not going to baby you.” They’ll provide someone to literally take notes for a student who can’t write fast enough, but they won’t provide someone — who is already on staff and not even fully utilized — to help that student stay organized. To me that says that the people in charge really don’t have any understanding of what ADHD and EF issues are all about.

23

@Corraleno , you make many interesting points.
With my son with dyslexia, he’s had to learn that college is about self advocacy and learning to cope. Having a diagnosis and neuropsych eval should also include an inventory of strengths and strategies for managing weaknesses.
It is true many in charge don’t understand learning differences. (There are many undiagnosed older adults. )
With EF Fear is common. A therapist can help with managing and whether it is something more with anxiety. A tutor versed in EF can help with practical tips.

24

My son has diagnosed ADHD/EF issues and is not interested in medication. We have just begun EF coaching (very expensive, sigh) so I can understand why schools aren’t willing to pay for those services. We are hoping he will get some good systems and tools in place before heading off to college. He’s a junior.

You might want to check out Princeton Review’s book on colleges with support for students with ADHD/LDs. It profiles schools that have support systems in place and discusses what level of support they provide. I was happy to see a handful of schools my son is looking at on the list.

25

OMG, yes. And when @motherville says “Many colleges provide accommodations for learning disabilities, including executive functioning and ADD/ADHD. The accommodations include longer times for taking tests, recording lectures, and so on,” well, longer times for taking tests, recording lectures, and so on turn out not to be accommodations for executive function at all. The main accommodation provided, usually, seems to be earnest explanations to the student that if they tried harder, they wouldn’t have executive function issues.

We hired an executive function coach for our son at his latest try at college. She’s a goddess, and surprisingly inexpensive.

26

“We hired an executive function coach for our son at his latest try at college. She’s a goddess, and surprisingly inexpensive.”

Do tell, @“Cardinal Fang” How did you find her? What qualities seem most helpful? Any other suggestions?

27

When I talked about tutoring in my earlier post, it was only for executive function (or lack thereof!). Only one tutor at my son’s boarding school had the skill set to be effective.

To find a good tutor, I would contact local neuropsychologists, private schools, other parents. I’m sure they aren’t easy to find and you might have to beat the bushes a bit.

As I also mentioned, college is in some ways easier than high school as there is less busy work. Some classes have exams only, which may suit some ADD kids better.

My two cents is that it would not be good for you, the parent, to be involved. College is a time for learning independence. If the kids don’t figure out coping strategies now, what will they do in the work force? It would be awful/impossible for the parent to continue monitoring assignments etc!

28

“it would not be good for you, the parent, to be involved. College is a time for learning independence. If the kids don’t figure out coping strategies now, what will they do in the work force? It would be awful/impossible for the parent to continue monitoring assignments etc!”

I agree completely @cinnamon1212 In any event, parental involvement has not been at all helpful or welcome up until now, so it certainly won’t be in college!

She likes exams and struggles with papers, so it’s helpful to be reminded that higher education (especially in the natural sciences) will bring much more of the former and less of the latter.

29

To find a coach for Fang Jr, I searched online for tutors. I found one who generally worked with high school students. As it turned out, in her work with her other clients she already did the kind of planning help, nudging and monitoring that Fang Jr needs. She meets with him once or twice a week to plan out his work, and then texts him every day to make sure he’s on track. I was lucky in finding her; it’s not easy. But looking for such people, I’ve found that older women inclined to be nudgy anyway are what is wanted.

A lot of times, other parents will say my son shouldn’t need help like this. I don’t know what “shouldn’t” means in this context. If it means, no one who needs such help belongs in college, I guess I just disagree.

30

I don’t know what my son will do in the work force, although some adults in the workforce have EF function coaches. He’ll probably end up with the kind of rote job @Corraleno mentions, and it won’t be easy to find. But one thing at a time. If my son is going to spend his life working in a grocery store stocking shelves, does that mean he shouldn’t go to college first?

31

@“Cardinal Fang” I don’t think ADHD kids will end up stocking grocery shelves; I really do think at least my son’s brain is wired to see the world in a different , more creative, way. I would guess he will need a job with structure (vs something like writing for television).

If I really thought my son would end up stocking grocery shelves then, no personally i would not send him to college. If i thought he had the intelligence to thrive in college then i would send him, and do everything in my power to make sure he didn’t end up stocking grocery shelves.

32

Apps, smart watches, To Do lists, and study tables do not address the underlying problems that students with severe ADHD/EF issues need help with. Making a To Do list of 30 things that need to be done in the next 2 weeks doesn’t help if you have no idea how to prioritize those tasks, break them down into manageable chunks, estimate how long each will take, and manage to keep long-term projects going in the background even when you feel like it’s taking all your energy and mental stamina just to stay on top of everything that’s due in the next 48 hours. Having a reminder app on your phone or alarms on your smart watch may help if you just need to remember one or two appointments or deadlines, but they don’t help someone prioritize dozens of competing tasks and figure out what to do, when, and in what order. Mandatory study tables are great for neurotypical students who tend to slack off and need some structure to be sure they study, but they’re pointless for someone who is already working harder and studying more hours than most students, and they are completely counterproductive for a student with ADHD who finds it much easier to focus when working alone in a quiet dorm room versus a busy public space surrounded by other students.

To give some examples from my son’s first semester, just ONE of his five courses, an online English Comp class, had 53 individual assignments over the course of the semester, each with a separate due date and time. Then each of the other four courses had anywhere from 25-35 assignments (not counting reading assignments) over the course of the semester, all due at different times on different days, and some of those were long-term projects where the student needed to pace the work over the course of several weeks. So in any given week he would have 8-12 assignments due, on top of all the reading, plus several long-term assignments that he needed to be working on. Some of those assignments might be worth 25% of the total grade, and others might only be worth 1%. Some might take 10 hours or more and others might only take 10 minutes. Assignments that involve group or partner work, peer reviews, or discussion posts/responses require not only managing and scheduling your own assignments but staying on top of other people’s work and constantly adjusting your own schedule on the fly. Add in last minute scheduling/due date changes that a prof may only mention in passing in class (when the student may or may not have been paying attention).

Every professor sets their course up differently in Canvas, so in one course the assignments might, logically enough, all be listed in the Assignments section, but in another they’d be in weekly Modules, in the third they’d be in the Files section, in the fourth they were in links to an off-site webpage, and in the nightmare English Comp class they were scattered across several different sections with no master list. And on top of all the actual assignments, he had to learn how Canvas worked, learn how the peer review software worked, download and learn a stupid slide-creation software (not PowerPoint) for English, download and learn a specialized data analysis program for one of his other classes, attend a bunch of freshman orientation seminars, complete several online mini-courses (drinking, sexual harassments, study habits, etc.), and stay on top of all the deadlines for disability paperwork.

Imagine dumping all that on a college freshman with severe ADHD who can barely remember where he left his keys/backpack/jacket five minutes ago, and then telling him he should be able to handle all that with no help whatsoever because he’s “18 and in college now.” As if the human brain should be able to magically reorganize itself the day someone turns 18 or the month before they start college. That just shows a complete lack of understanding of how ADHD brains work.

33

@Corraleno that sounds incredibly difficult!!

My son only looked at small colleges; he ended up getting on his school’s soccer team, and going down for preseason was tremendously helpful. He could figure out the campus, get to know his teammates, get his room set up etc, so he didn’t have to deal with everything at once, like the other freshmen arriving for orientation.

(I’m writing this sort of thing in case some of our strategies might be helpful to other families. Obviously there is no one way to handle college and ADD!)

34

Maybe in times gone by, but not now.

I worked at a government agency in the early 90’s, and had my own secretary and paralegal. Honestly, there wasn’t enough work to keep us all busy but that’s how things were set up. I returned to this agency in 2010 and there was only one department secretary and she belonged to the top guy, and her job was to schedule the meeting rooms and make sure reports went out on time. There were 4-5 paralegals (for 50 attorneys) who could help with a project at times but they had their own responsibilities on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. We did our own administrative work, from making copies to producing 30 page reports. Really, the most support we got was from IT when our computers crashed.

A friend of mine got his MBA and went to work for a large data company. He had a little closet for an office and one secretary for 20 of them to share (so no secretary). One day he was talking to someone in South American and the client thought the phone went dead so tried to recall my friend. The client called through the switchboard, got the one secretary who said my friend was on the phone. She went to his office and found him in a diabetic coma, still on the phone from the original call.

There isn’t support help at offices any more.

35

@taverngirl I think it’s a bit of a scam that EF coaching is so expensive, because it really doesn’t require any specialized knowledge or training, it just requires someone who is naturally organized (or has learned to be very organized) and can model that for a student with ADHD. I think it’s especially obnoxious for someone to charge a lot of money for “EF coaching” if all they’re doing is repeating the same sort of “tips & tricks” you can find in dozens of books (Smart but Scattered, That Crumpled Paper Was Due Last Week, etc.) for 20 bucks or less. One of the problems with those books (and the techniques they teach) is that they are almost all focused on either middle-to-high school students, who have the added support of classes 5 days/wk and constant reminders from teachers, or working adults, who generally only have one job (not 5-6 separate unrelated jobs) and who have the added support of secretaries, administrative assistants, reminder memos, etc.

College is kind of the worst of both worlds, without the support systems of either. A lot of the help that is needed isn’t generic make-a-list type advice, it’s specific help managing/monitoring/prioritizing specific assignments in specific courses run by particular professors using a particular course management system. That’s something that should ideally be done by someone who is familiar with those systems and can walk a student through the process, point them to additional resources, etc. I mean, obviously that can be done by someone else, since I am actually doing those things, but it’s far from ideal for the “EF coach” to be someone who is 2000 miles away and has to learn the systems from scratch herself. And frankly it does nothing to encourage the student to become more independent and to take over these tasks himself, because it’s much harder for this to be a collaborative project, as it should be, when the two people are in different states and time zones. It would be far preferable for S to be able to sit down with someone on campus each week and work through the issues together, but if Option 1 isn’t available, then we just have to make do with the less-than-ideal Option 2.

36

@Lynnski In addition to meeting with the Disability Offices at UMass and Brandeis, other issues you may want to consider include the extent of the Gen Ed requirements, flexibility in meeting them, size of Gen Ed classes, and policies towards transfer and CLEP credit. Students with ADHD often have a much harder time focusing on classes they have no real interest in, so a school with a lot of Gen Ed requirements, with little flexibility in meeting them, may be a disadvantage. On the other hand, small, in-person Gen Ed classes may be easier for a student with ADHD to manage than large classes and/or ones with an online component (which often include a lot of pointless busy work to compensate for the lack of in-class interaction and discussion). One big advantage of UMass is that they have very liberal transfer and CLEP policies, which could allow a student to take a lighter course load during the school year and make up the credits via CC courses and/or CLEPs over the summer. Only needing to manage 4 courses at a time, instead of 5, can make a big difference in how overwhelmed a student feels, especially freshmen year when there are so many other things to learn and adapt to. And by shifting some of the more odious GenEd credits to summer, it can also relieve some of the grade pressure, since transfer grades generally don’t count towards GPA and CLEPs are usually just listed as “credit” with no grade.

37

“There isn’t support help at offices any more.”

That really depends on the office. In my last job I was head of a 4-person department that consisted of me, two assistants, and a secretary. I don’t have EF issues (quite the opposite — I’m pretty Type A), but if I did need it I’d have had three people I could delegate those tasks to. Every department had a director, 3-4 executive staff, 3-4 assistants, and a secretary. My (now ex) husband, who is extremely ADHD with severe EF issues, had an assistant and secretary (and me) to help keep him on track. But I don’t consider making photocopies or phone calls to be EF tasks — the kind of assistance I’m talking about would be reminders of meetings and deadlines, dividing up and assigning project tasks, etc. Even without a personal secretary, a lot of those things happen naturally via regular staff meetings, memos, etc. And frankly any person whose ADHD is so severe that they genuinely need EF help is not going to end up in a job where there is no EF help available. They will either move on to a job where it is available, or they will find a job where the EF burden is minimal.

What makes college difficult for people with severe ADHD and EF deficits is that there is an enormous EF burden, no help in managing it, and no other real options for a really smart kid who wants a college degree.

38

Why is it a scam that EF coaching is so expensive? If you can find someone with the right skills who will charge $12 an hour and is effective- go for it. They don’t need licensing or certification- it’s harder in my state to get a license to do a manicure than it is to hang out a shingle as an EF coach.

I don’t see this as a scam; if someone starts coaching and charges $15 an hour and within two weeks via referrals has 90 hours worth of work a week to perform- they’ll raise their rates. Right? The market at work.

The charlatans won’t have enough work so they’ll lower their prices to stay busy; the successful coaches can raise their prices until they are working the number of hours they want with the number of clients they want. Point me to the scam???

39

And what if you thought he had the intelligence to thrive in college, but he didn’t have the EF? Then what would you do?

40

“And what if you thought he had the intelligence to thrive in college but he didn’t have the EF?”

This is exactly the problem, and the reason the attitude of the Disability Office totally pissed me off. A student who is smart enough to handle the work but is blind, or deaf/HOH, or dyslexic, will be provided with everything they need to compensate for the disability and make sure they succeed. And at the other end of the spectrum, if you’re a football player who struggles with remedial algebra, or a student who somehow made it to college barely able to write a coherent paragraph, they will pull out all the stops to provide free tutoring and writing help. But if you’re a super smart kid who needs help with EF issues? Well, sucks to be you, you should have figured out how to compensate for that on your own by now, and if you haven’t, well maybe you don’t belong in college.

My son is already taking 300 & 400 level courses in his major as a freshman. He had a 4.0 last semester, despite feeling like he was on the verge of drowning the whole time. His lowest grade was a 97 and the highest was 102. He is not struggling in any way with the level of work, but he is seriously struggling with organizing and managing the workload — to the extent that he could not stay in college if he didn’t have help (which right now = me). The fact that a brilliant student with EF issues would be allowed to flunk out for lack of help, while a student who could barely read or write gets all the help they need, for free, is ridiculous.