<p>uvajoe, that's how I feel exactly about it.</p>
<p>Yet, no one realizies this either. It's an outright attack on human-rights.</p>
<p>I think Spain just became the fourth country in the world to legalise gay marriages and adoption...maybe a week or two ago? Good for them! Though a little unexpected for a country that has so many devout Catholics</p>
<p>^Well it's good to see that Spain has separated the state from the Church (nearly all of the arguments I've heard against gay marriage refer to religion in some way). So, the list of countries that have legalized gay marriage is: Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, and Canada? Are there any other countries?</p>
<p>Sorry to say, but you guys are wasting your time. Many people in this country are simply xenophobic and no amount of arguing will change their minds. Only direct experience can</p>
<p>I'm personally against, but if other people want to do it, they can go ahead and do it. It's not going to affect me personally.</p>
<p>I support gay marriage because it does not really do harm to anyone,..if you don't like it don't look. I think people can make their own decisions.</p>
<p>I compare gay marriages to shock "faces of death" videos. See I could watch some real life fotage of a Russian soldier being killed which is horrible (My Russian friend showed me) but good god how could a man f-ck another man? (Something I would never ever watch, I would say its worse then watching shock media) It just seem diabolic and wrong.</p>
<p>edit:spelling</p>
<p>As the people just above you just said, if you think it's comparable to shock media, then don't watch. Childbirth is one of the most repulsive-looking events ever, but you don't see it being called diabolic and wrong.</p>
<p>And I just have to say, anyone thinking of contributing anything else to this thread should look up the multiple threads (which have dozens of pages) that have addressed this topic, read them all, and then feel free to continue discussing if you have a point that hasn't been made yet in all of them.</p>
<p>Against.</p>
<p>It goes against tradition and biology. Love relationships can exist outside of marriage. The purpose of marraige is to provide a solid foundation for a family. Men and men or women and women can't create children.</p>
<p>That being said, I am for civil unions. I just dont like the idea of calling it a marriage, and although I don't have a problem with gay people, I would have a problem with my son being gay or one of my children/family members getting gay-married.</p>
<p>There is a 'hole' in my logic, you might say. "What if a gay couple will adopt, can they get married according to you?" I guess I'd have to say yes, but that complicates the situation. It'd just be easier to have no gay marriages at all.</p>
<p>Frankly I dont have a problem with the government pulling completely out of the whole marriage game completely.</p>
<p>for....</p>
<p>it doesnt go against biology</p>
<p>I'm very against gay marriage. </p>
<p>I mean, in regards to adoption, how can you say that it is normal for a child to be adopted by two members of the same sex? Evidence shows that a child thrives most when having both a mother and a father. And yes, I realize that single parents don't have this option, but it seems worse to me to have two parents of the same sex. </p>
<p>
[quote]
It goes against tradition and biology. Love relationships can exist outside of marriage. The purpose of marraige is to provide a solid foundation for a family. Men and men or women and women can't create children.
[/quote]
Very true. Countries that have allowed gay marriages have seen the destruction of the family. </p>
<p>Also, in Canada because of their ruling in favor of same sex marriage, churches are no longer allowed to speak out against gay marriage. A big argument for gay marriage is that we shouldn't be forcing our morals on somebody else, but isn't this doing the same thing? Furthermnore, the legalization of gay marriage will force public schools to teach gay marriage as the moral equivalent of marriage between a man and a woman -- this, too, is forcing morals. </p>
<p>Okay, I'm now done.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It goes against tradition and biology. Love relationships can exist outside of marriage. The purpose of marraige is to provide a solid foundation for a family. Men and men or women and women can't create children.
[/Quote]
Infertile couples, or the elderly, can't create children, but we still allow them to marry.</p>
<p>Tradition isn't a good enough reason to ban gay marriage. It used to be tradition to only marry people in your race, but that's definetly changed.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
Very true. Countries that have allowed gay marriages have seen the destruction of the family.
[/quote]
It's not as if the US hasn't seen destruction of the family. 1 out of every 2 marriages end in divorce. Allowing gay marriage isn't going to change anything.</p>
<p>funkyfunkybunny, you mentioned the fact that a child thrives most when by a mother and father. while that is very true, i don't believe that many credible studies have been done as compared to a child, without any parents as compared to parents of the same sex. sure, the child is going to get mocked on in high school, but i'm sure that any of us that are open minded would easily realize that they would prefer to be brought up by two invidiuals than being in a foster home.</p>
<p>you mentioned, "destruction" of the family. personally, i don't get this. could you elaborate? on a case of arguement, i generally try to think what the other has for their examples but i was left dry this timearound. </p>
<p>i lack much symphathy toward what the church does, (i'm buddhist so I'm biased in that factor) but you mentioned that it would "force" public schools to teach it as equal. I don't think that's such a big deal. schools force evolution and the big bang theory too. as far as i'm concerned, evolution did occur and same-sex marriage is equal. it's not forcing morals, but rather feeding ideas. </p>
<p>tpeck, have you ever watched porn before? it seems pretty wrong and diabolical at times also doesn't it? a women screaming in pleasure and a man grunting in enjoyment. just because it's prone to get one excited, doesn't exactly mean it's any better.</p>
<p>In regards to the church I'm nearly positive that, in Canada, there is a part in the same-sex marriage law that protects religious groups. It basically allows them to refuse to marry a gay couple if they are against it. It's only the government that can not refuse to marry and acknowledge same sex couples.</p>
<p>And, forgive me if I'm missing something, but what is wrong with public schools teaching that everyone is equal, regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation, etc.?</p>
<p>*I think Spain just became the fourth country in the world to legalise gay marriages and adoption...maybe a week or two ago? *</p>
<p>In Belgium (one of the four I assume you were referring to), gay adoption is illegal.</p>
<p>Real quickly:</p>
<p>
[quote]
People that attempt to limit the rights of gays by blocking them from marrying are the exact same type of people who kept African-Americans and Women from voting for centuries.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sex and skin color are ATTRIBUTES, ie, they cannot be changed by the holders of these CHARACTERISTICS. Whether you are heterosexual OR homosexual, sex is an IMPULSE that CAN be controlled by the person performing the action. </p>
<p>Thus, equating "gay rights" to the women's rights or especially the black-rights movement is outright false. Interestingly enough, it is known that the majority of black Americans are against gay marriage, anyway. </p>
<p>The argument that some people are "born this way" (there was another thread I was involved in where I spent several posts talking about how ridiculous of a claim this is, scientifically) has nothing to do with whether or not gay marriage should be legalized (even if the claim were in fact true). </p>
<p>It would be disgusting to apply this same logic to someone who was "born" attracted to young boys and girls, wouldn't it? Yet orginazations such as NAMBLA are already starting to claim this exact thing.</p>
<p>^ I guess the issue of consent would then come into play. In a gay relationship, it's two consenting adults partaking in whatever activities they choose. In the case of an adult being attracted to children, there's only the consent of 1 person (the adult). A child legally can not consent to a sexual relationship (and there aren't any arguments that children are born sexually attracted to adults).</p>
<p>GeorgeS,</p>
<p>O.K. nice attempt. Consider this:</p>
<p>You claim that the analogy loses grounds because homosexuality is simply "choosen".
Analize this situation: Two females Becky and Sue. Sue wishes to marry. Becky wants to marry Sue. Becky cannot marry Sue BECAUSE SHE IS FEMALE, WHICH ACCORDING TO YOUR LOGIC IS A CHARACTERISTIC.</p>
<p>Before you respond let me make one more point: Forget homosexuality, and just think about Becky not being able to marry Sue because she is FEMALE. This may seem as though i am being unreasonable, but it is JUST as reasonable as your argument.</p>
<p>TuftsPlease: Yeah I watched porn before. Two dudes pounding each other's ass's and being gay, I don't watch. You would have to be one sick f-ck to get off on that.</p>
<p>And Porn doesn't seem diabolic at all, unless your watching some kind of illegal rape stuff or gay stuff. Thats the kind of stuff you turn off real quick like OMG*** was that...and the days don't seem so bright.</p>
<p>I am totally against gay marriage, and I am NOT a homophobe. I had a semi-close friend throughout high school that I liked very much who was gay, but he always knew that I was against gay marriage. I'm sorry, but there is simply no argument out there that can make me believe that people are born gay. It is a choice, period. I mean, seriously, look at any animal species out there (I know we're not the same as them, but bear with me). Do you ever see two male ducks together or two females together? No! It's always male/female that get together. A gay person goes completely against nature, and I believe being gay is wrong. Does that mean that I am going to discriminate against gay people? No. As I showed you earlier with my friend, just because I don't like what somebody does doesn't mean I am going to treat him poorly. However, marriage has always been the union of a man and a woman. It always has! Marriage is something special, not something that should be taken lightly. If two gay people want to live together and do whatever together, then fine, but don't you tell me they are married. It is NOT the same, and it makes marriage a joke. </p>
<p>Now, I know you are going to pounce on me for being close-minded or whatever, but, frankly, I don't care. See, I really don't like the argument that someone is close-minded. It's almost like saying that it is wrong to make decisions or have opinions. I have made the decision of what I believe in and what my values are, and I'm going to stick to them. See, look at the terrorists (I'm not comparing them to gay people :) ). They believe in things that I believe are wrong and they enjoy blowing people's brains out. Should I be open-minded about them and accept them for who they are? Well, I most certainly will not. I will not change my values in order to accept them. I will also not change my values to accept the actions of other people that I feel are wrong.</p>