<p>So in my junior year in French Class a student told his gc that i had obtained a copy of the test before taking the test. I was then suspended for 2 days due to having an unfair advantage over the other students. This test that i obtained was from a senior who had previously taken the course. It was not the same test but i do admit some of the questions were similar. This was the third test i had received from him. I had paid 10 dollars for each test but my intentions of getting these tests were not to cheat they were to use them as additional study materials because they were focused to the specific unit we were working on and they were the style of questions my teacher would give. The test was not identical to the one that i took. I ended up being suspended for 2 days and a 0 on that test. My French grades as follow were B+, B-, D- ( 0 on test), B. So i did recover from the cheating with a B for the final quarter. Obviously this being said i do regret this situation and am completely embarrassed that such a wrong situation has involved me. I think that part of what compelled me to believe this situation was okay was the fact that my school is so competitive and with no exaggeration a large portion of my school uses old tests that aren't the same to study off of and get a better idea of the style of questions a teacher will pose on the test. That being said, it is not an excuse for my poor decision making and my academic in fracture. With all this, I spoke with my gc and because she said it was not an extremely severe situation there would be a file of my incident but she or the school would not report any disciplinary issues( my suspension ) to schools that i am applying to. But my main problem here is if i should check off if I've been suspended or not. I know the moral thing to do is check off yes, but after reading all the other reads it seems like it can be quite detrimental even if described/explained well. What should i do in this case?? </p>
Where is the fuzz in that question?? Obviously you should state you were suspended and the details so colleges can decide how to handle it. If your GC is on your side on the rec all the better. To not supply that info is lying by omission.</p>
<p>You should mention that you were suspended and explain why. If you leave it off, but they find out that you were suspended - that is an integrity violation much more severe than studying from old tests. JMHO.</p>
<p>I agree with DrGoogle, if your GC says its not a big enough deal to mention on her side of the transcript, then it shouldn’t be big enough to put on your side. However, I think that people like you don’t deserve to go to a prestigious university. You can make all the excuses you want, the point is that you intentionally PAID MONEY for these copies that you knew would be very similar to the test. People who enjoy learning and love to participate in their community are the ones that deserve to get in, not grade-obsessed, cheating, the-ends-justify-the-means type of losers like you.</p>
<p>What part of “Have you ever been suspended?” is difficult to comprehend?</p>
<p>You may want to consider the downside of your action (one of your obviously underdeveloped skills). School departments are bureaucratic machines; they live on the completion and filing of proper forms. So while this GC may believe that there will be no record of your suspension can she guarantee that it’s been purged completely from the system? If not, and you happen to “forget” to mention your suspension and a college inadvertently finds out, now you’ve added lying to cheating.</p>
<p>It happened two years ago. Take your medicine and tell them how much you learned and grown from the experience (even though the asking of this question proves you haven’t).</p>
<p>At our high schools, no test is ever given to take home ever. Especially when it will be re-used. I don’t think your school is competitive as you stated.</p>
<p>If you choose (wisely) to come clean about the suspension and address it in an essay, make it sound like you have learned something and really are contrite. </p>
<p>You started out this thread with words that might imply that you see yourself as the victim in this: “a student told his gc that i had obtained a copy of the test before taking the test.” </p>
<p>You had in fact purchased tests and the responsibility for the suspension falls solely on you, not the other student. You may not have meant it quite that way, but I’d eliminate the context of how it was discovered and just admit to the purchasing of old tests.</p>
<p>I can’t think of any comment I’ve seen on CC that’s a worse representation of students at prestigious colleges and, frankly, of many CC members themselves. Ivy League schools and similarly competitive institutions are well-known for being populated by students who are ruthless in maximizing their potential for admission and do not actually enjoy learning. Who actually gets a 4.0 just for the sake of learning? Who even takes the ACT or SAT - regardless of spending long hours studying for it - without the intention of it getting him or her into a good college? Who can honestly say that he or she just takes the AP test after the AP class to test his or her knowledge for personal fulfillment?</p>
<p>Obviously, cheating on a test is a little beyond just trying to get good grades. It’s not THAT big a deal, though. Some applicants to top colleges have done worse. I wouldn’t even mention it if the guidance counselor wasn’t going to.</p>
<p>Hey guys thanks for all the responses. I know the moral thing to do is definitely to report it… but how much will the degree of this suspension hurt me if correctly explained?</p>
<p>Suspension is bad. More importantly, academic dishonesty is on the rise in recent years and discipline against it has been <em>severely</em> getting less and less lenient. IMO it will hurt pretty damn bad. My advice is if no other mechanisms will report to colleges the infraction, then you should not take the initiative to report it. It helps no one. You yourself have learned the lesson and will not do it again. Colleges do not have to lose an otherwise great applicant because of a culturally overreactionary response to any instance of academic dishonesty.</p>
<p>If he chooses to deliberately lie exactly what lesson has the OP learned?</p>
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<p>That would seem to be the college’s option. Using your approach they would potentially be losing an applicant who bought exams violating rules to a level warranting suspension. Whose only remorse seems to be in getting caught, who then compounds the situation by actively lying on his application. It’s hard to see how the college loses anything in this situation. </p>
<p>Cheating and then lying about it! Here’s the good news tennisman, with a resume like that I envision a glorious career for you in politics or on Wall Street.</p>
<p>He’s learned to not buy tests, because he will be punished for it. It’s very silly to suggest someone is defined completely by a single mistake, and a college would be losing nothing by losing that person. </p>
<p>But we can debate the morality of it all day long. It’s complicated and has warranted debate and attention from far more knowledgable and experienced professionals in law and higher education than a few posters on a forum. So I will admit vinceh has a point. It isn’t an unquestionably moral thing to do. Thus I will consider it again ignoring the moral questions.</p>
<p>Tennisman is here to get advice on getting into college, and my advice, without considering morality, is not to report and forget about it. In his situation, that is the best way to get into the colleges of his choice. He will need to do the research and soul searching for himself on how much of a cost, to him, would it incur if he makes that decision.</p>
<p>True, and it’s completely asinine to compound the easily explainable mistake of a 15-year old with the premeditated deception of an 18-year old. </p>
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<p>All they’d lose is a student not bright enough to take the opportunity to come clean. I still say that’s the college’s choice.</p>
<p>Tennisman, do what you think is best. Do I think you’ll get caught? No, I think the odds are quite small. But if you do get caught you better have an answer to “You had been suspended but you told us you weren’t. Why did you lie? And, why should we believe anything you say now?”</p>
<p>I agree with vinceh. Far better to report the suspension and the reason for it than to have to explain why you did not report it.</p>
<p>And again, watch your language so that it sounds contrite. It is not the SUSPENSION that might be counted against you, as you implied in your last post when you asked how much the suspension might hurt you - it is the ACTIONS that led to the suspension that you need to own up to and apologize for. That is what the school will be considering - not the fact of the suspension but the reason for which it was given.</p>
<p>In any case, the incident along with the suspension can be left buried if you so choose to OP. If the school doesn’t have the suspension recorded on your papers and your counselor will ignore it, there is basically no chance you will be caught. Better to just save headaches and trouble for everyone in this process.</p>
<p>You have 15 minutes to make your case to an adcom. Don’t purposefully dedicate 3 or 4 of those to argue against yourself. There’s no way to frame this positively.</p>
<p>Some people are playing the “i’m so moral and upright I’d always do the right thing” game because they are not in your shoes. If you verify that your GC will not report the issue and it is not to be filed as in left in permanent record, you should just leave it as is. No need to bring it up… </p>
<p>I don’t see why this is cheating in the first place. We pay money to buy SAT practice tests which are just like the real test. Plus, if the teacher had not been discreet enough to recollect the tests she had given, it is the teacher’s fault for allowing old tests to be in circulation.</p>