<p>@Barq45, I agree about the misinformation about public schools.</p>
<p>I haven’t narrowed down why I originally thought about them the way I used to (am attending one next year). It is probably because a significant portion of people in my family went to Harvard and Yale, though.</p>
<p>I always thought that </p>
<p>Tier 1: Top Ivies, Top Tech schools
Tier 2: Lower Ivies, Lower Tech Schools
Tier 3: Top LACs
Tier 4: Lower LACs, Top Public Universities (Flagships/Top UCs)
Tier 5: Lower Public Universities (Lower level UC’s, coming from California(
Tier 6: Even Lower Public Universities (CSUs)
Tier 7: Community College</p>
<p>I now know that I had no solid foundation or reasoning to think that way, but it was the case throughout high school.</p>
<p>While I wouldn’t pick a college based on the financial situation alone (academics trump how affordable it is, imo). If I could not attend a college that I would really enjoy and had strong engineering programs fine, but I would not choose a cheap college solely because it is affordable.</p>
<p>Knowing that many public universities are significantly better than many privates academically, definitely helped by choice of getting the best of both (strong academics and affordable).</p>
<p>Yes, the University of Virginia is an outstanding school.</p>
<p>It’s hard for me to take Suze Orman seriously, she gets kick backs for some of her views. Once I heard that I couldn’t take her seriously anymore.</p>
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<p>Why would you tell someone when they are in grammar school that you can’t afford to send them to college? If they are in grammar school then there is still time to save so what you would really be saying is that you won’t send them to college.</p>
<p>I think you can not have everything figured out financially but still emphasize to your kids the value of an education. As other posters have pointed out there are many ways to get an education and I think there is some importance in communicating to your kids that is what you want for them.</p>
<p>What she said was “that you do not have the money, that if they go to school, they’re going to have to either pay for it themselves, they’re going to have to go to a community college, they’re going to have to go to an instate college,” she was talking about the money for expensive private colleges, not money for any college. She is saying be up front as to what you can afford. We did that with ours from grammar school. They knew we would pay for instate schools. If they wanted something else they had to get scholarships. 2 got scholarships, 2 went to in state schools. I agree with her.</p>
<p>I think in this case the parents were honest with Rebecca. The parents prepaid for tuition and planned on handling room and board. Even so, Rebecca seems convinced she will only have a chance at being successful if she attends the more expensive private school and like so many young people she seems to have no clue as to what a $900 per month debt will mean. She says she knows she will have to sacrifice, but I truly doubt she really understands sacrifice; maybe she thinks it means only having the basic cable package.</p>
<p>The Orman piece really makes it clear that we all need to be more honest about money, especially with our kids. Make your finances clear to your kids before even applying to college. My own child turned down some very “prestigious” schools and attended a top 20 university with great need/merit aid. We explained that we could pay the cash for this U or the state school, but the Ivy would have to wait for grad. school. The deal is the same for our other child. </p>
<p>Where I work (research center), it’s more important that an individual has solid graduate credentials, (preferably technical or science) not necessarily where they are from. If undergrad loans at private U will prohibit grad school, go to the state U and peg out. Borrow for grad school, not undergrad.</p>
<p>I saw this show last night, and overall, I thought Suze made some excellent points about excessive student debt, and financial realities. But I also thought the show did not present a balanced view of state pre-paid plans and private options. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>I believe pre-paid state plans are risky choices. While I understand the tax advantage of pre-paid plans, in my opinion, parents are being presumptive that there is an in-state school that meets the needs of their children. Not all kids thrive at large schools, and in some states, all the public options are large schools. By investing in a pre-paid plan, parents are drastically limiting their children’s choices. One wonders what this student’s options might have been if the family had invested the same amount of money in an out of state 529 plan.</p></li>
<li><p>Wise student borrowing has a place within a higher education financing package. (I agree that $75k of student loans is excessive.) Both my sons will have modest Stafford loans (the subsidized amount) because I believe it’s important that they have some “skin in the game”.</p></li>
<li><p>Some private options are financially affordable. If kids have decent grades and SAT scores, and/or if the family has financial need (which apparently was not the case for this family) there are privates out there that offer scholarships to make attendance affordable. Maybe not of the caliber of Drexel, but it is possible to find a private where the net COA is the same or slightly higher than the state flagship (especially if you consider that many flagships take 5 years for bachelors, and 4 years is more common at small LAC’s.) My S2 had decent, but not stellar grades / GPA and he had 4 options with net COA within 8k/yr of our flagship.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I agree that parents should be talking to their kids about college financing at least before freshman year in HS. But that conversation should be about what both the kid and parents should be doing to maximize their affordable higher education choices - i.e. importance of GPA, studying / practicing SAT, searching far & wide for college options, smart investing for future costs, etc.</p>
<p>Suze tried to simplify the topic, and, in my opinion, did not fully explore all the options that families have.</p>
<p>I thought Rebecca said she was accepted at two schools in VA, so maybe she either didn’t apply or wasn’t accepted at UVA. </p>
<p>Some parents have told their children upfront for years they were only paying X but the kids suddenly got selective memory when real time hit. You also have parents who are living in the time warp of their own youth and college paying days. These parents might remember when college was cheap enough to produce professional students, a phrase you don’t hear these days. Add the confusion some parents have over EFC’s and what covering need really means and before you know it, you might end up with a Rebecca crying on the Suze Orman show.</p>
<p>DD got lucky with Amherst; they hit the bullseye with our aid package or else it would have been the instate flagship college for her.</p>
<p>You’re an adult now, you need to stop believing people who are not upfront with you, including your parents when they say they will pay for something. Perhaps they do intend to pay, wonderful. Or perhaps it is their pride that won’t let them say, “we cannot afford that.” You have nothing to lose by planning on paying for everything yourself. I’ve had too many friends whose parents have been promising to pay for the next big thing and who, in the end, pay for nothing. </p>
<p>Like others have said, I do not blame the students. They are young and have virtually no life experience in the real world. I blame the parents. To saddle an 18 year old with 75K, or even 40K, worth of debt is not right. And I really have zero sympathy for parents who do that, then their kids cannot pay it back and the parents start complaining that they are stuck with the bill. </p>
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<p>From your lips to, well, all parents ears! I prefer no debt but I do understand how grad school debt can pay off. Even then I think too many people to into too much debt. A good friend of mine started at a very prestigious, private medical school. After a year she transferred to a far less prestigious, public medical school. She just had an “ah-ha” moment that her future plans in medicine did not require the brand name or the debt. 15 years from her graduation, she has a successful practice and paid her debt off a decade before she would have been able to pay off the private med school. A decade is a long time to be paying yourself instead of a loan.</p>
<p>Same here (although S is going to Northeastern.) We told him the bill had to come in under state flagship or it was off the table. We’re a military family, so over the years we weren’t sure which state that would be but it didn’t matter. </p>
<p>Mom2sons wrote,
</p>
<p>This is where you lose me. How does it meet their child’s need to be excessive debt for several decades? Not four years; decades. </p>
<p>It’s up to a parent to either emphasize the idea that “fit” is most important or emphasize that making it work at a college that leaves the rest of their young adulthood financially managable is most important. We chose the latter, as our parents had done with us. </p>
<p>Yes, I want my son to attend a school he can succeed at, of course. I truly believe that the attitude we’ve raised him with about college will serve him well for the rest of his life. He did make it work; he’s attending one of the private colleges that gave him generous merit aid. But I have no doubt that he could have made it work just about anywhere because we’ve raised him to believe that and because we live it. We’ve been stationed several times at places that we are terrible fit for me. I could’ve hung onto that but instead I decided each time to make it work. It’s a great feeling knowing that I can be happy and thrive anywhere because I’ve cultivated those skills.</p>
<p>mom2sons notes,“Quote:
While I understand the tax advantage of pre-paid plans, in my opinion, parents are being presumptive that there is an in-state school that meets the needs of their children”</p>
<p>Response; yes, there there is no decent in state option, parents may not have a choice. If the kids have learning issues, most states schools do not provide the same degree of supports found in private schools. Likewise , if the students interest isn’t offered in state, going to an out of state school may be a good option. Howwever, given that there are decent in state alternatives, incurring substantial debt for almost any private school is crazy.</p>
<p>^^have to agree about the pre-paid plans–it is not so much that the risk is that the child might not want to attend the state school, but that the state just may not manage the money in that plan as efficiently as it should be and subsequently the value of that plan may not be there when the kids begin college. Pre-paid state plans are for the most part, based on politics and many managing those plans have been appointed by state gov to run these plans–and many of these people are just not qualified to make decisions about these plans and investing. It has happened in our state and many are now wondering if there will even be money to pay for those kids whose families invested in the pre-paid programs. 529 plan for out of state/in state would be the way to go.</p>
<p>As far as Suze Orman-yes, I imagine the info was simplied–it is a TV show and one that does not focus on college finances. The good thing is that maybe many families did see the question/answer and perhaps has many talking about this issue!</p>
<p>My father-in-law doesn’t believe in anything beyond a state school, anything else is putting on airs. I wanted to keep his attitude as far away from my daughter as I could. First, it’s none of his business where we send her to college. But secondly, she was dreaming big and I was happy to see that. In elementary school she had dreams of going to Harvard. Well, she didn’t get to Harvard but with the assistance of a merit scholarship she is at an LAC that is a good fit for her. Nothing against our state school, but she didn’t want to go there.</p>
<p>I also wonder why this family agreed to make their issue so public. It must have been hard to Rebecca to stand up to the scrutiny.</p>
<p>The power of television. It’s the same reason why people agree to tell the entire United States the sordid details of their sexual affairs, or their bizarre diseases, or their history of abuse and domestic violence, or the time they spent dealing crystal meth to 8-year olds at their local elementary school.</p>
<p>What was helpful in this segment is that the kid needs to “get it” about loans and pay back…</p>
<p>While she has no real plan yet (and not many 18 yr olds do)
She didn’t seem to realize that her potential salary in her chosen field cannot carry such debt and allow her to pay rent–let alone everything else.</p>
<p>I think every kid needs to understand what the debt load is going to look like…and consider whether they can possibly live…too many kids seem to think the lifestyle they are in at home with mom and dad (which has come after many years in the workforce) will follow them after college…</p>
<p>I cringe at the thought of our student marrying someday–and that the betrothed has tons of student debt…that may sound bad–however if you loook at our economy and the current climate to shift wealth/increase taxes etc…no couple starting out can affrod to carry high debt.</p>
<p>We are very lucky; our older child made the very mature decision to follow the money. My husband started investing for our future children when we got engaged and we didn’t have our first until we had been married for seven years. However, the cost for full pay families is higher than I would guess anyone–even taxguy whose posts I love–would have predicted, and for those of us who have lived within our means, the cost of college today is a little disheartening. DD loves her school and is very happy with her decision.</p>
<p>Fogfog–I am with you on the future spouse debt. We will talk to both of our children about marrying debt AND about the type of personality that might be willing to take on debt.</p>
<p>Wow… so many factors in my family that make “the formula” hard. I was second gen African American. I’d NEVER assumed my parents had money. And borrowing money? ***? We didn’t even have a credit card (well mom had a secret one for Macy’s). Went to an HBCU on an Air Force scholarship, but I have come to resent what the military means for poor and minority families. Married to a first gen Carribean American husband who apparently believes in heavy debt for those who “qualify” for an Ivy/elite education. Whatever. Good thing we are both physicians. D “qualified”, and we could effort to to send her because of my childless uncle who worked for the postal service and understood real estate from maybe 1920 in Alabama and DC. She could care less, but the opportunity presented itself, and off she went. But uh oh. Market crash, and son is not daughter. ADD, sports, etc. Now what? This kid, who needs to know how many stars when we stay at hotels, does not even want to VISIT expensive private schools.</p>
<p>I have worked with many people from various schools. I know idiots from Harvard and bright people from state schools, and vice versa.</p>
<p>In my nearly 20 years of work experience, I have found that for most places, getting a college degree is just so you can check the box next to “college graduate” on the job application.</p>
<p>Go to the best school you can afford, but do not go into thousands upon thousands of dollars of debt to go to college.</p>
<p>But, yes, this is something parents should drill into their kids’ heads . . . not merely mentioning it once or twice. Because a lot of kids just don’t have very much experience with money, jobs, and debt. They may see “$80,000” and understand it means 80 1000s, but not understand how much they would have to give up to pay back a loan that big.</p>
<p>Some parents are worse than the kids, we’ve had kids come to the board with their parents encouraging them to go to the “best” (which also happened to be the most expensive) school possible, basically telling their kids they would find SOME way to pay for it and “take out more loans.”</p>