<p>I agree with most of the posts above, especially post #15, as well as posts #5, #11 & #12. Swarthmore College is one of the most liberal--socially & politically--college or university environments in the nation. A typical Swarthmore student would be comfortable at Wesleyan, Yale, Bard, Columbia, Sarah Lawrence, and would be uncomfortable at Davidson, Furman, Washington & Lee, St. Lawrence Univ., Dartmouth, Rhodes, Colgate and many other conservative to moderate schools.</p>
<p>“Haverford is no less left-leaning than Swarthmore.”
This isn’t true. One of the things I agree with ID are the multiple occasions he described Swat as less “mainstream and preppy” than HC… this has its pros and its cons.</p>
<p>You will find a wide spectrum of people on both campuses, but let’s be honest. Swat is much more liberal. I think the more important characteristic though is how the campus cultures of the 2 schools display their politics. For example, at Swat, the environmental group is called “Earth Lust!” and at HC, the group is “Earth Quakers”. The dance at the end of “Coming out week” at Swat is called “Gender F_CK” and at HC, it’s “Gender Blender” (or, have these things change with time?). Swat’s politics seem more confrontational than at HC where the atmosphere is more laidback, modest and gentle… “urban” liberal vs “suburban” liberal. I have never seen an issue at HC that has reached “fever pitch”… “elevated temps” between frisbee games, occasionally. </p>
<p>“You would have to be prepared to defend your views at either institution”
Given what I said above, “defend” isn’t an accurate term to describe the type of dialogue that is usual at HC… your viewpoints may be challenged but being defensive seems an exaggeration. Normal dialogue occurs at Swat too, but “talking for the sake of arguing”, “talking for the sake of talking”, “people taking themselves too seriously”, “tempest in a teapot” are more common complaints at Swat.</p>
<p>“…although you would probably find more kindred spirits at Swat.”
Treesnoger and froghorn: I believe to make a claim like that, one has to know more about the OP than the one sentence they used to describe the type of environment they want in a college?</p>
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A typical Swarthmore student
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</p>
<p>Who is a typical Swathmore student? That would require painting with a broad brush for a student body that covers a broad range of diversity.</p>
<p>BTW, Prof Ratzman apparently did a heck of job facilitating that town hall meeting referenced above. He divided the students into six groups, each with a different perspective on the issue and then had each group make a presentation of their views to the entire assembly. The students in attendance came away with exposure to a range of ideas.</p>
<p>Ratzman teaches a fantastic course on ethics and modern religion that looks at all of the hot-button social issues (abortion, gun control, gay rights, and so forth) from the standpoint of modern theologians. The reading material covers the gamut from extreme conservative to extreme liberal, focusing on the religious and theological underpinnings of the positions.</p>
<p>A typical Swarthmore student is highly intelligent, academically motivated and politically & socially LIBERAL. And probably quite intolerant & hostile to conservative political or social viewpoints. Swarthmore, in my opinion and experience, is very easy to typicalize--not generalize.</p>
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The dance at the end of “Coming out week” at Swat is called “Gender F_CK”
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</p>
<p>Just to clarify, this is the dance at the end of the Sager symposium, although it has little to do with the actual symposium. It's not after Coming Out Week, in which all events are, in their entirety, affiliated with the week. I'm not getting into this discussion, but wanted to point it out - I have no idea what Haverford does. :]</p>
<p>And from reports, some Haverford goons showed up that the Swarthmore dance two weeks ago and acted like knuckledraggers.</p>
<p>ID… Are you trying to deflect the conversation again? You did it on the “drive by shooting thread” where you brought up Williams when the topic was stress at Swat and it seems to me you’re trying to do it here too when the discussion is about “how uber-liberal is swat?”</p>
<p>Haverford is more than ½ hour van ride away. First, so few HC kids venture over to Swat for productive reasons like a class, it's even more unlikely that a few homophobic “goons” would go over to Swat on a Friday/Saturday night just to cause trouble at Gender F-ck (very fun dance, btw). If a few kids were there, being “knuckledraggers” (I like "dweeb" better :) ) probably wasn’t on the initial agenda and alcohol likely had a role (if this even happened)… you know about alcohol and kids, right ID? Yes, even Swarthmore kids… and I'm not going to pursue this further.</p>
<p>Swat is a very liberal college and there’s nothing wrong with that. Swat is more politically confrontational than HC and Carleton and that can (sometimes) be good too and I have no problems with the chalkings which can be a + form of expression. Swat provides a unique college experience but it can’t be the ideal fit for every admitted applicant… and that's fine. If it were, there would be a serious housing shortage next year.</p>
<p>PS: Just wondering how many liberal kids at Swat went to HC yesterday for Michelle Obama’s talk and are going to HC tomorrow to hear Hillary and Chelsea? Did anyone go to Janet Reno's talk at HC last week or Madeline Albright's talk/tea at BMC the following day? If the Bi-co trip is made, please leave your chalk at Swat. Thank you :)</p>
<p>As always, there was homophobia at the Sager party, but there were also a lot of Haverford kids. I have no idea if a link between the two can be made, but both were present.</p>
<p>Phoenix editorials made an explicit connection between Haverford goons and trouble at the Swat party. </p>
<p>Doesn't mean that every Haverford student is a knuckledragger.</p>
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[quote]
PS: Just wondering how many liberal kids at Swat went to HC yesterday for Michelle Obama’s talk and are going to HC tomorrow to hear Hillary and Chelsea? Did anyone go to Janet Reno's talk at HC last week or Madeline Albright's talk/tea at BMC the following day? If the Bi-co trip is made, please leave your chalk at Swat. Thank you
[/quote]
Who would want to go see those conservatives talk?</p>
<p>For an alum of the less confrontational of the two schools, HC Alum, you seem pretty persistently argumentative. Was it really necessary to call froghorn out for speaking in very general terms about the politics the OP professed to have? </p>
<p>I think it comes down to whether the OP wants a politically charged atmosphere or one where his or her ideas will be challenged less, from either side of the spectrum. Although I generally have very left-leaning politics, I know that I would prefer a more conservative atmosphere where people cared more to someplace where demonstrations of political beliefs were disparaged. ("Leave the chalk at Swat"? Was that necessary?)</p>
<p>I won't say anything more than that, haha.</p>
<p>I'm seconded Treesnogger on this one. I find the constant flaming of the CC boards very annoying.</p>
<p>Trust me, It can get worse. Why do yo think they closed down the other thread.</p>
<p>Forgetmenots: I value and trust your perspective. I’ve never witnessed homophobia while at HC but I know it’s there. But it’s the kind that is revealed through private conversations, an occasional grimace or even a public stare… it’s not a confrontational kind. There’s something that doesn’t add up with this. As you know, Tri-co events are <strong>poorly</strong> advertised and often kids in the Bi-co are only aware of events at Swat through word of mouth and by friends. In the case of Sager Dance (Gender F-ck) the only people at HC who would be aware of it would be members of the Sexuality Gender Alliance and their friends. So, not only is the advertising for the dance selective, but only people really interested in going would make the 1 hour trip over to Swat on a weekend night. Given this, I just find something odd in this. I respect that you were able to distinguish correlation with causation. Could a bunch of HC kids be the culprits? Absolutely. I think though that the issue can be too easily dismissed if the “blame” is put on “outsiders” instead of figuring out if it’s in the community as well. </p>
<p>Treesnogger: Like I said, I don’t find the chalkings problematic. It’s actually pretty cool but it’s a different way of doing things. You should also note the emoticon :) I used to clarify that this was meant to end the post on a lighter note. Also, when you use the term “kindred spirits”, I think it’s important to know a little more about the person than one sentence. I just wanted to point that out and I don’t believe I bashed anyone in the process (read what i wrote again. it's pretty bland). Criticism doesn’t necessarily have to be a bad thing. People make mistakes and you learn by having things pointed out to you. </p>
<p>ID: Thank you for the clarification.</p>
<p>AE: Thank you for not getting into an argument with me.</p>
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I think though that the issue can be too easily dismissed if the “blame” is put on “outsiders” instead of figuring out if it’s in the community as well.
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HC A, the one thing you certainly can't accuse Swarthmore of is trying to "gloss over" any issues inside its community...:).</p>
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It’s actually pretty cool but it’s a different way of doing things.
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</p>
<p>Actually, "coming out week" chalkings are an annual tradition at colleges and universities across the country. I couldn't find a definitive reference on when the tradition started, I've found references to gay chalkings at Michigan State and Yale dating back at least two decades.</p>
<p>In fact, the various approaches college administrators take to the chalkings provide an interesting comparison of college styles. Some colleges have their employees wash down the sidewalks. Others ban all chalkings, period, gay or otherwise. Administration "censorship" of chalkings hasn't been very effective. Generally speaking, the fastest way to get college students to do something is to tell them they can't.</p>
<p>Swarthmore's approach is typical for Swarthmore. The administration stands back and lets the students work it out. The college does not erase chalkings, whether they are "coming out week" chalkings, the satirical Geek Week chalkings by the computer society on the following days, or an April Fools prank when the entire contents of the Daily Gazette was chalked on the sidewalks.</p>
<p>Last year, the chalkers probably pushed it too far and their chalkings provoked a response from the student body that was counterproductive to their goals. After the heavily attended student forum, facilitated by Prof. Ratzman, an informal, voluntary protocol emerged for this year. Sexually graphic chalkings during "coming out week" were limited to one designated sidewalk, thus satisfying the dictates of free speech AND giving students/staff offended by such free speech the easy opportunity to avoid it. Seems like a pretty good solution, if you ask me.</p>
<p>ngmmm... That's true. <em>That</em> is one of Swat's strengths.</p>
<p>ID... Your example of Pro Ratzam is why someone would choose to go to a LAC in general, and one with a tradition of community like Swarthmore in specific. It can get a little tedious though cause it (or something similar)happens every year but that's just because of student turnover. Many kids are (unfortunately) exploring their identities for the 1st time in college and they can sometimes go overboard or make mistakes... which is fine cause that's how you learn. Like I wrote before (on that thread that got locked), it's not that mistakes or incidents occurring that is really important but rather how the community responds to it that counts... and it seems Swat comes together in the end, which is my experience with it and HC too. If things are done perfectly, students can't learn from it.</p>
<p>According to this Daily Gazette article on the history of chalkings at Swarthmore, organized "coming out week" chalkings appear to have first started in the early 1990's although there was a bit of a brouhaha about "lesbian grafitti" done by two students on Halloween 1986. </p>
<p>The</a> Daily Gazette What is the history of queer chalkings on campus?</p>
<p>And, in fairness to HC_Alum, the Phoenix editorial stated that in addition to goons identified as attending a nearby safety school disrupting the gender**** party, there were also goons from Villanova.</p>
<p>(insert smily face icon here)</p>
<p>And a 2002 NYTimes article on the banning of chalking at Wesleyan, with references to other LACs.</p>
<p>It appears gay chalkings also appeared at Wesleyan starting in the early 1990s. The article cites administration efforts to erase semi-annual chalkings at Williams (although I believe the administration there has given up that effort)</p>