Swarthmore vs. Ivies/Stanford

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>Hello, </p>

<p>I'm a recruited athlete for Swarthmore, and I've been having trouble with this question-</p>

<p>Swarthmore, or Ivies/Stanford?</p>

<p>I visited Swarthmore, and I liked it overall; campus was extremely beautiful, people were very down to earth, and it had a pretty calm vibe -- something that I liked alot(I'm more of a sedate kind of person, even though I can be very outgoing and enthusiastic). One of the main reasons I'm applying there is because I got recruited; I had a couple of other offers from schools but Swarthmore was the best option in terms of academics/athletics. I want to give atleast a shot at going pro after college, so going to a school where I was recruited was were necessary.</p>

<p>I know it's a weakness, but I've been addicted to the Ivy Brand-Name since I was young, that's just how I grew up. Of course, they have prestige for a reason -- an academic environment with the greatest resources/funding, famous professors, and extremely smart people. And an Ivy League Degree is the most attractive Bachelor's degree you can have, whether people like it or not. </p>

<p>So we come to the crossroads of Swarthmore and Ivies. Since I am recruited, my admissions process at Swarthmore would be alot easier -- the closest thing to guaranteed admission as I could get. I could risk this opportunity and make my application process alot harder and apply to the Ivies(especially Harvard, Yale, etc.). Considering the Swat coaches only recruit people who they think can get in, I think my academic credentials have a good shot at the Ivies/Stanford as well. And oh, going to Stanford would mean having no shot at playing on the varsity team -- their teams are just too good. However, I do want to major in science-related field, and we know Stanford(and Harvard and Yale) are much more ahead of Swarthmore when it comes to research,resources, and the number of experts in the field.</p>

<p>The debate comes down to this- having a much more stress-free application process with Swarthmore and a guaranteed chance of playing varsity level, OR risking it all and applying to an Ivy(I wouldn't leave Swarthmore for Brown, Cornell, or Dartmouth. Only Harvard,Yale, Princeton, Columbia, or UPenn), hopefully getting in, and trying to play for their DI team. Obviously, going to Stanford would eliminate my dream of giving pro sports a shot, but it also would bring in opportunities than I'm not sure Swarthmore could provide. </p>

<p>So, what are your guys opinions? The only things going against Swarthmore are prestige(I know I've mentioned it alot, but when it comes down to it, all these colleges provide excellent undergrad experiences, and if one college has more prestige and name-recognition than the other, it doesn't hurt), the fact that it has less resources and does not do research in science at the level that the Ivies/Stanford does, and my slight wariness of its small-ness. I go to an extremely small school, and I might end up really liking the small population, I don't know. But this last consideration is really small, just FYI. The big things going against dropping this opportunity and applying to names that are better in science related fields is the fact that my dreams of giving a shot at pro sports has a good chance of being destroyed. I know playing DIII sports and trying to give pro sports a shot is impractical, but I'm willing to work for it, if I see that I am improving at the pace needed through college. Also, that's another thing, I'm not sure the courseload at Swarthmore would fit with my athletic endeavours; I know applying to Ivies would mean maybe not having a spot on the team at all, but I have heard that their courseloads are easier, which means a better chance at a higher GPA. A 3.9 from Harvard and a 3.5 from Swarthmore sound really different when you're applying to Grad school(assuming i can get into Harvard). And yeah, if sports dont work out after college then I'll go to grad school. </p>

<p>Let me know what you guys think!</p>

2

<p>Seems clear to me, you should give the Ivies and Stanford a shot. You will always wonder otherwise. Ease of the application process seems a bit of a weak reason to choose Swat.</p>

<p>As all of us here who follow the Swat threads know, Swat is an outstanding school and for those in the know (most grad schools included) there is not as much difference as you might think, hence the reason it is the largest feeder to PhD programs. But as you mention, you will really need to invest yourself in not only your sport, but your education as well. </p>

<p>You talk about working your way towards professional status, but you are clear about the fact that DIII is not D1. Do you feel that the lack of coaching is what would stop you from making the same level of effort (even if on a club team) from playing on a DIII team? Certainly being at Stanford would allow you to play more than most of the other schools you mentioned if you chose to make the effort simply due to the weather, and if you did really well on the club teams, wouldn’t there be some way to be seen or whatever needs to happen to be considered for the pros? </p>

<p>Unless you are excited about the opportunities that Swat offers, I think you already have your answer. Don’t get me wrong, I am a huge Swat fan and my son is loving his time there, but if you are settling for Swat, It might not be the best fit for you. Good luck!</p>

3

<p>@GVAmom thank you very much for the advice. I think I came off somewhat hesitant of Swat. Let me make things a bit clearer.</p>

<p>I love Swat, I am by no means settling for it. It’ll give me a chance to get a world-class education while playing golf, and as I said, being recruited there makes me admissions considerably easier. I have strong academic credentials, but as you know, a kid with 4.0 GPA and 2300 SAT scores and all the EC’s can easily be rejected by all the Ivies. Swat is much more secure. </p>

<p>I was just wondering if the opportunities at Ivies were great enough for me to abandon such a great offer. I have had a dream of attending an Ivy since I was young, but I also had never heard of schools like Swat. Now that I know how great Swat is, my obsessions with Ivies is considerably smaller. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing out on something great. However, I could always try to go to an ivy grad school.</p>

<p>As with the club teams, that’s just not possible. A DIII varsity team surpasses club golf on any level. I’m willing to work hard wherever I go, regardless of whether. You’d be surprised to know that some of the best teams come from the Northeast. </p>

<p>For now, the main questions I want answered is: How is Swat? what are his favorite and least favorite things about it? etc.</p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

4

<p>Although I was not a recruited athlete (far from it), I was accepted by both Stanford and Swarthmore back in the dark ages. I turned down Stanford and went to Swarthmore. I have no regrets. I did go to Stanford for graduate school, so I guess you could say I got the best of both worlds. In my opinion I got a better education and probably worked harder at Swarthmore than I would have at Stanford or one of the Ivies.</p>

5

<p>Swarthmore is not more secure (although perhaps just for you). People with 2300 SAT and 4.0 GPA can be easily denied at Swat as well, and yes it happens often that people who get into an ivy school don’t get into Swarthmore. However, you should note that although Swarthmore’s facilities are smaller, they are all open to students. Harvard and Yale may have lots of resources and professors, but a lot of them are not available to undergraduates. In the areas of science, the name of the school matters very little to nothing. Harvard and Yale can get you great finance jobs through the names, pretty much the only thing they have against Swat :wink: Personally, I think science education is better at small liberal arts colleges because you need a lot of help ploughing through all that dense material.</p>

6

<p>@dad3x @international95</p>

<p>Thanks for the great advice. Yes, you are very right, Swat is not more secure, if it wasnt for getting lucky enough to get recruited. However, the recruited factor makes it much more secure, and having such a secure admissions process to such a prestigious school is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Now that I’ve thought about it, it would be stupid to let it go. </p>

<p>Also, for the facilities not being available to undergraduates, is this statement from personal experience or hearsay? </p>

<p>Yeah, I’m not looking for a finance job, so I guess I’m fine.</p>

<p>@dad3x how did stanford and swarthmore compare? I know being a grad at school is much different from being an undergrad, but how did the overall environment and vibe compare? thanks</p>

7

<p>If you aren’t good enough to play for Stanford, why do you think you can play for the pros?</p>

<p>Go to Swat.</p>

8

<p>Stanford has a beautiful campus, too, but in a more open, West Coast style - think California Mission versus Collegiate Gothic. As a TA in Econ 1 classes at Stanford I found the undergraduate writing skills disappointing - many of the papers I graded were not that much better than the papers I wrote in high school.</p>

<p>It is very difficult to compare the vibe between undergraduate and graduate school experiences. Although Stanford had tens of thousands of students on campus, I really only got to know about 30 students well - those in in my year of my PhD program. I think this is a common experience in academic graduate programs (as opposed to professional programs). Swarthmore at the time had about 1100 students. While I didn’t know them all well, I certainly would have recognized each and every one and had many friends in many different disciplines - a far wider set of friends and acquaintences than at Stanford for grad school.</p>

<p>I’ll say that the best professor I ever had was at Swarthmore.</p>

9

<p>Apply Swat ED.
Apply Stanford and the Ivies RD.</p>

10

<p>How does the decision process work at Swarthmore? Can you keep your options open? If so, apply to the Ivies and Stanford - don’t let the work on the apps get in your way of such an important opportunity. </p>

<p>On the other hand, if taking a shot at the more well known schools will kill your chances at Swat then I think its a no-brainer. Its a great school and a bird in the hand . . .</p>

11

<p>@blueash not every golfer who made it was once good enough to play for the stanford team. </p>

<p>@kaukauna I would, but I’m applying to Swat EDI. The EDI notification comes before the RD app date. they’re incompatible. Only way I can do that is for me to do EDII, but I’m not doing that for multiple reasons.</p>

<p>@CHD2013 that’s what I came to realize. The only way I could do both is if I apply EDII for Swat and RD for the others. But that’s 4-7 more apps that I have to fill out. I’m sure there’s alot of students who have better grades than me who would give alot to get into swat, while I have it much easier. might as well take the opportunity while it’s there. I might apply EDII so that I can apply to the others RD… but considering I want to play golf, doing all that work for the extra apps doesn’t make much sense.</p>

12

<p>OP, it appears that you have given this matter a great deal of thought. I am confident that you would fit in well at Swarthmore. Good luck with your application. (Given that you are being supported by a coach, you do not really need any luck, though.) </p>

<p>My one cavil concerns the statement that a “3.9 from Harvard and a 3.5 from Swarthmore sound really different when you’re applying to Grad school.” That is a true statement, but it may betray a misapprehension about grades at Harvard and other Ivys. According to Stuart Rojstaczer at gradeinflation.com, the average GPA at Harvard in 2005 was 3.45 ([Harvard](<a href=“http://www.gradeinflation.com/Harvard.html]Harvard[/url]”>Harvard)</a>). If trends have continued, it will be at 3.53 or so now. Swarthmore’s average GPA is apparently right around 3.5. In other words, there appears not to be a significant difference in average grades. Workloads could be a different matter.</p>

13

<p>If I was you, I would not rule out Dartmouth for two main reasons. 1) Dartmouth is the most similar to Swarthmore and so the thing that you like about Swarthmore, you will get at Dartmouth, number one for undergrad teaching for 4 years in row… no TAs, only full profs for all classes that read and grade all papers. And (not that it matters) but has better name recognition with the “Ivy” tag. 2) The “D plan” (quarter system similar to tri-mesters) is very flexible and would enable you to put the work in for your game while playing D1 golf. You only take 3 classes at a time and can be on campus for 2 summers and off for 2/3 winters so you could spend a lot of time golfing if you’d like some where warmer. Don’t wait and call the coach today to see if he has any “slots” available because he will be using them in early decsion.</p>

14

<p>@coase thank you for the information. That helps alot. I am worried about the courseload but it seems, according to the data, that they are at pretty much the same avg GPA.</p>

<p>@frsurfer – very good idea. I am familiar with the D plan. However I do not wish to take summer classes – thats the time of year where I have to take the most time on my game. He only had 1 slot this year, and I believe he has filled that. Dartmouth’s a great school, but it just doesn’t fit my likes and such. Great idea though! thank you!</p>

15

<p>My son did ED1 as well and it is truly a much calmer senior year that way. </p>

<p>At this point in time, I am not sure there is much of anything he doesn’t like. He is a member of Psi Phi (not a frat) and absolutely loved the Pterodactyl Hunt. He is working as a Stage Manager, he’s taking Chinese and has ‘great friends!’ He’s excited about all the class choices and loves the campus as well!</p>

<p>Stanford and the Ivies are great options for Grad School. The opportunities at Swat are tremendous for undergrad. I completely agree with dadx3’s outline of Stanford. And even my proud Stanford grad husband would admit that classes aren’t that rigorous.</p>

16

<p>I understand. Than if I was you I would not risk losing the Swarthmore ED “pull”. You may not have it for regular decision if you pass on ED. I know of some nightmare stories of similar situations where assumptions were made and NOTHING worked out in rd while there were MANY amazing options for ED. Swarthmore is a great school and I’m sure you’ll love it. The other option is take the risk and shoot for the other schools and if you don’t get into any acceptable ones take a gap year and work on your game and hopefully grab an ED slot next year at one of the schools. Good luck.</p>

17

<p>I have a different take on this. My DD’s sport was swimming (so it may be different for golf), but our experience was that D3 schools will generally do recruiting through RD. The coach at Swarthmore (and Williams, etc) very nicely told our DD that she would support her ED1, ED2, or RD.<br>
I think you could easily plan to apply EA to Stanford or Ivy and ED2 to Swarthmore if it doesnt work out.
I’m not saying that those schools are better in anyway than Swarthmore, but you sound like you would always be wondering if you didn’t apply to your dream school. You may not be recruitable at the D1 schools but you might be able to walk on. You could make some calls and find out if any of those other D1 schools take walk ons.
I personally think Swarthmore is an amazing opportunity and if I could have picked DD’s school it would have been Swarthmore - but everyone is allowed a different dream.</p>

18

<p>I do think Carla2012 is correct. I was more referring to D1, but nonetheless I would make sure you nail it down and have the discussion with the Swat coach. The answer could be that he doesn’t even know, because every D3 school is a little different but usually the final say is in the admissions hands not the coaches so you could be 90% in for ED and 50% in Reg Dec. MOST coaches will give you the straight answer.</p>

19

<p>OP, maybe I missed something here - but, what exactly are you going to college for?</p>

<p>1) PRESTIGE
2) GOLF
3) ACADEMIC INTEREST (I don’t think you have mentioned anything about this and, if not, why not)</p>

20

<p>A little tl;dr but now as a Swat alumnus who’s now taken a sort of tour of two top Ivies, I feel like my perspective might be worthwhile. I only discuss quality of education & exit opps. </p>

<p>If you wanna go be an academic, and you <em>know</em> that now, then go to Swarthmore no questions. Seriously –– it’s the most academic vibe you’ll find. If you’re good, you’ll place well into top grad programs (with some qualifications in math and maybe economics, but if you’re strategic in what you take, that could change). </p>

<p>However –– and this is a big however –– if you wanna go do consulting, or work in a bank, or do something entrepreneurial, Swat is just NOT THE PLACE TO GO. Preparedness for these gigs is really well developed by having classmates who have connections to these industries and knowledge about them. Few at Swat are interested in these gigs and these (meaningful) pursuits are often actively bashed. At Swat you miss an important opportunity to explore what could be a meaningful life in the private sector (it exists!). </p>

<p>Also, PEOPLE CARE ABOUT BRAND and no one really knows about Swat. Top firms reach out to the Ivies, whereas they don’t at Swat. It continually astounds me what brand affords.</p>

<p>I went to Swat and am doing okay (now that I’m at an ivy :wink: ). My experience suggests that life is perhaps more easily balanced at an Ivy with usually lighter workloads and `better’ brand. But Swatties are uniformly the most interesting, crazy, fun, open, weird, and (mostly) kind people you’ll ever meet.</p>