<p>Those are my three acceptances, so far. I'm an international student from New Zealand, so I'm relatively unfamiliar with all three of them, and I have no idea which one to pick as yet.</p>
<p>Right now I want to major in either Electrical or Computer Engineering; for both Penn and Duke I was accepted to their Engineering schools. I'd also like to keep my options open, though, in case I decide to switch to science (probably something physics- or computer-based).</p>
<p>At this point I plan to do a PhD, although if there's a realistic chance of going straight into work after an undergrad degree, I wouldn't mind that. I'm a bit concerned that with Swarthmore, I won't have that freedom.</p>
<p>General advice would be appreciated. My specific questions:</p>
<p>Which has the best academics, in the areas I mentioned?</p>
<p>Which would give the best college experience? I'm not exactly a hard-partying type, in general, and it's a bit of a concern that Duke and Penn both have reputations for that.</p>
<p>Which would get me into the best postgrad program, or job?</p>
<p>Any other hooks or really attractive things about any of them?</p>
<p>Swarthmore, as a undergraduate only liberal arts college, is quite different from Penn or Duke, which are large research universities. Although Swarthmore has a strong and well respected engineering program, it does not offer majors in specific types of engineering like electrical or computer engineering. Swarthmore’s engineering majors get a BS in engineering. You might want to read the Swarthmore thread on engineering at Swarthmore <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore/1472771-engineering-swarthmore.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore/1472771-engineering-swarthmore.html</a> where I posted a link to a survey of what Swarthmore engineering graduates have done in their initial year after graduation.</p>
<p>In general, my admittedly biased opinion is that Swarthmore provides an undergraduate education experience that is superior to what most students get at large research universities. But it is not for everyone. Read what the Swarthmore engineering department says about their program. I’m sure the professors would be happy to talk to you by phone or email about what the program is like and where graduates go. In general, though, my impression is that if you want to start a career as an electrical engineer with a BS, practicing electrical engineering from the day you graduate, you might be better served by going to a program that provides a degree in EE rather than one that offers a general engineering BS.</p>
<p>Wow those three choices are REALLY different. Swarthmore is going to give you top-notch prep for graduate school. I’m not in engineering here but I’d be happy to put you in touch with engineers if you have any questions. Just PM me.</p>
<p>Ricraz can’t PM you with only 3 posts. But I would definitely suggest that they do a bit more research on the schools. As said above, these are three different schools with very different types of education.</p>
<p>So for the nerdy industry firms, Swarthmore is a big name. [For instance, almost all CS majors who want to work at Google after Swat gets a job there. I’ve not seen anyone go to Facebook, however.] You probably have more trouble getting a back office job at a bank, but I’m not sure you’d want such a job (apparently they’re treated pretty poorly). </p>
<p>I think Penn’s name might help you secure a job more than Duke will –– also its graduate engineering program is ranked higher than Duke’s, it seems. </p>
<p>Despite that, liberal arts college will give you a more interdisciplinary education, it seems. For instance, a major in computer science + math/physics would prep you pretty well, it seems for PhD study, while the BSE at Penn, for instance, will prep you very well for industry, and possibly for academia. Swarthmore places really well into PhD programs in this area, so it probably shouldn’t be a deciding factor.</p>
<p>When we were looking at colleges, a professor at Bowdoin (another small liberal arts college similar to Swat) who used to teach at Duke said, and I quote, “They do not care about undergrads at Duke”.</p>
<p>Possibly, but he taught at Duke and a college similar to Swat. He saw a huge contrast in the student body and the opportunities for undergrads. He was speaking from his own experience.</p>
<p>I will say that we have been blown away by the opportunities available at Swat.</p>
<p>Fhimas, I had heard that Swarthmore’s Computer Science had very good placement. Do you know to what extent the same is true with their Engineering?</p>
<p>No. I don’t know about their engineering. I presume it’s good. If you’re really set on EE (i.e., you’ve thought about other areas of engin and are pretty sure you don’t care), you should probably head to Penn so that you can focus on EE and not have to study things that don’t interest you. If you haven’t made up your mind to this degree, I’d say the liberal arts approach may be appealing to you, so that you can explore interdisciplinary approaches to the problems you face, a tact that seems to be “in” these days.</p>
<p>[It’s probably also worth noting that Penn engin will probably also be easier –– or at the very least have more grad inflation – than you will find at Swat. I say this based on indirect information I’ve gathered through friends who went to Swat and are now at Ivies doing engin or dated people at Penn who were doing engin.] </p>
<p>Indeed, though, it might be worth emphasizing that Swat engin seems really brutal. Penn will be a bit more chill. [Though these days, you may not want “chill” because of the heightened foreign competition in engin.]</p>
<ul>
<li><p>She’s served on three of the faculty committees (which also have students, obviously), a great experience.</p></li>
<li><p>She worked on War New Radio her first year, which included learning how to research, edit, and produce a radio show as well as being on the show a few times. For one piece, she interviewed a member of the Afghan Parliament That radio show is on about 30 public radio stations around the U.S.</p></li>
<li><p>She’s been on four different project-oriented trips, totally paid for. (If a student group wants to do a project away from the school it’s quite easy to arrange.) For example, one trip was over a fall break when they went to West Virginia for a few days to investigate mountain-top removal mining.</p></li>
<li><p>She’s had the opportunity to work at the national level on two different environmental initiatives or conferences.</p></li>
<li><p>She’s had paid internships all three summers, getting more experience in each of her majors (computer science and biology).</p></li>
<li><p>She’s always had a job associated with her majors which paid her incidental expenses, and then some.</p></li>
<li><p>The honors program has provided the opportunity to work very closely with profs, and she’s found the honors seminars to be great.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>And that’s just the big stuff – there’s been lots of fun stuff as well, and of course the regular excellent academics.</p>
<p>It’s very tough if your child is concerned about size and that kind of environment. Swat it VERY intimate, which is a double-edged sword. Just yesterday, I was able to sit at a picnic with the entire engineering dept. and chat about my plans, their plans, the next year’s plans, etc. I can walk into any professor’s office any day of the week and talk or get advice. That is probably the best of the intimacy, though I honestly think you can create that at a bigger school if you are assertive and take initiative. The worst of the intimacy is what you would expect - everyone knows your business, it is very repetitive in terms of social life, etc. But you must take these into account if you want to go to a small LAC.</p>
<p>Picked Swarthmore. Was /this/ close to choosing Penn, fought with my parents over it, agonised for months, and finally enrolled at Swat. Reasonably glad I did now, although I’d probably have enjoyed myself at UPenn as well. Two things about Swarthmore:</p>
<p>Socially, it’s great. I see my friends every day without even trying, and even the people I don’t know too well are so friendly I pinch myself sometimes. Swarthmore is possibly the easiest place on the planet to be yourself, there’s a very strong culture of tolerance (note: unless you’re a conservative). I’ve seen people walking between classes in capes, or wearing ball dresses in the dining hall - and yeah, I thought that was weird too when I got here, but I’ve realised that on average those people are generally far more fun to hang out with (or if not, at least fun to watch) and I have no license to be judgemental. Don’t think those things would have happened quite as much anywhere else I could’ve gone to.</p>
<p>Academically, it’s pretty cool. I went through this weird curve where I found everything really easy and didn’t do work, got tolerable grades, went around saying “hey, this ain’t too hard” and then got totally destroyed by a math class the next semester (thank god for pass/fail). Moral: don’t underestimate Swat. It is hard. Having said that, I would be skeptical of anyone who claimed that it was significantly harder than the very-top-tier research universities. It’s also very good for placements into… most places, I guess. My friends are getting internships at Google and Facebook left right and centre. I’m not as sure about social sciences/humanities, bigger brand names may be more helpful there.</p>
<p>Overall, it’s a great school. You’re not going to realistically meet people who are as smart as those at Stanford/MIT/Harvard, but you will get academics which are pretty much as good, and an experience which, for some types of people, is ideal.</p>
<p>@Ricraz, I’m a little taken aback by the first part of your statement that “you’re not going to realistically meet people who are as smart as those at Stanford/MIT/Harvard…” I don’t know who you’ve been hanging out with at Swat, but I must disagree based on having one child graduate from Swat and one who is a current upperclassman. They would certainly disagree with you, too. But, I do agree that Swat students will receive an education equal to or better than your other named universities. As for students majoring in the social sciences/humanities, whether you need a “bigger brand name” is also questionable, but is probably based on what you are looking to do right out of school. I have a family member who is a professor at HBS and he has told me that his Swat students are absolutely brilliant. I can also tell you that my S1 was a social science major at Swat and was accepted to one of the top Ph.D. programs in his field. </p>
<p>That caught my eye, too. The kid was admitted to Swat and it’s more than just parental bias speaking when I say the kid can match wits with anyone, anywhere, on any subject. The kid simply was not motivated to go the Ivy route.</p>
<p>Go do Penn. Prestige of Penn > Prestige of Duke, and you’ll have better non-grad-school post-grad opportunities from Penn than you will from Swarthmore. I will say, however, that Swarthmore people are some of the nicest, smartest, and most passionate people I have ever met and I think the vibe at Swarthmore is legitimately better than the one at Penn or Duke –– students are genuinely interested in what they study, and there’s an academic vitality at Swarthmore that just doesn’t exist at Penn or Duke. </p>
<p>That said, you’ll probably develop better “life” skills (like balancing work and leisure) than you will at Swarthmore. So it kind of depends on what you want: if you want to prepare for a comfortable life where you’ll be making lots of money and doing normal people things, go to Penn; if you want to prepare for an interesting life, where you could choose (and will have to hustle perhaps harder than you would otherwise) to make lots of money (and where you’ll graduate with probably some of the most interesting friends) if you wanted to, but such a decision would actually require a bit of grief and work on your part, go to Swarthmore. </p>
but I must disagree based on having one child graduate from Swat and one who is a current upperclassman. They would certainly disagree with you, too. But, I do agree that Swat students will receive an education equal to or better than your other named universities. As for students majoring in the social sciences/humanities, whether you need a “bigger brand name” is also questionable, but is probably based on what you are looking to do right out of school. I have a family member who is a professor at HBS and he has told me that his Swat students are absolutely brilliant. I can also tell you that my S1 was a social science major at Swat and was accepted to one of the top Ph.D. programs in his field. </p>