<p>Well, Swarthmore is so small that it is almost impossible for it to show up on a top matriculation list.</p>
<p>I've visited Wesleyan twice, once for a tour and info session, the other for a class visit and an interview. However, I simply can't put my finger on the degree of "alternative hippyish funk" there is as Wes. If I knew that the hippy-culture was a small facet of Wes, then I'd have more confidence in applying early. Can anyone help me out at all here?</p>
<p>I've also visited Amherst, and I got the sense that it was more conservative and more focused on academics than Wes. What does Amherst offer, OVER wes, besides the location. In other words, what is special about Amherst that Wes can't offer me?</p>
<p>Well, the fact that you can't quite put your finger on it, even after two visits, is probably a good sign. Call it what you will, "alternative", "hippy" or "funkadelic"; there's no question that Wesleyan has a bigger home-grown arts scene than Amherst or Swarthmore. The list of alum who have made successful careers in dance, film and the theater would fill an entire thread. That doesn't mean that Organic Chemistry is any less demanding or that the Economics majors study only Marx and Lenin. It means you're going to encounter a mix of different people, most of them charming, a few of them genuinely talented. I might add that Wesleyan is also the only NESCAC school other than Tufts that still has fraternities, with DKE and PsiU among the better houses. I have spotted far fewer tie-dyed shirts than snapped collars on my visits over the years.</p>
<p>I have two close friends and a sibling on the Wesleyan faculty. "Hippy-culture" is more than "a small facet of Wesleyan," and certainly far, far, far more a part of the scene than what you would find at Amherst.</p>
<p>Yet Wes still offers your everyday Boston/NY suburb preppy, liberal, aware kid? Yes?</p>
<p>I know it may be hard, if not impossible driver, but could you give me a rough numerical figure of the amount of OUTWARDLY hippy people there are (clothes, hair etc.). Just a personal estimate</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well, Swarthmore is so small that it is almost impossible for it to show up on a top matriculation list.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is true. When you look at the freshmen facebook, most of the prep schools are represented, but it's one student each. It takes multiples to get on a prep school's top-20 list.</p>
<p>However, there is no question that Swarthmore is the "least preppy" of the AWS group. Therefore, it would have less appeal to students looking for a "preppy" environment and more appeal to those looking for a "non-preppy" enviroment.</p>
<p>In my opinion, it is impossible to place any meaningful ranking on AWS -- they are all equally excellent schools. Going to any of them would be a fantastic opportunity. </p>
<p>How do you choose? Well, each has a different flavor or "feel". Williams and Swarthmore, in particular, have very distinctive personalities with Williams having an undeniably strong athletic/jock emphasis and Swarthmore having an undeniably strong academic/geek emphasis. The locations of the three schools are very different and contribute to the feel of each campus. So, investigate the "big picture" campus culture stuff and pick the one that feels most comfortable. It's hard to make a bad pick.</p>
<p>At least a third of the students at each school could be picked up and moved to another of the three schools and nobody would ever know the difference.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yet Wes still offers your everyday Boston/NY suburb preppy, liberal, aware kid? Yes?
[/quote]
Absolutely. And you're right, Moot, I can't really quantify a visual hippie index based on my visits to campus. Not a lot of tie-dye, as JW has said. Although my sister-in-law--an early 80s grad--and her friends to this day look like they're ready to board a VW bus and head to Woodstock. My impression is largely based on stories my professor friends have told me about the hippie radical-chic individuals they encounter in the classroom. They are certainly not indicative of the whole student body, but they are there in greater concentrations than at other schools. Not meant as a criticism, just an observation.</p>
<p>i found the students at williams and amherst happy, pretty well-rounded, and pleasant to be around. swarthmore students seemed really self-conscious about the school's reputation for rigorous academics. during my visits there, i ran into students that displayed and verbalized that "gosh, i've got so much work to do, woe is me" attitude. i guess there's nothing wrong with that, but it's something that really struck me. i don't think they're working that much harder or involved in more activities than students at the other two schools or at a handful of other schools. this, in contrast to carleton, where i thought students worked harder than at any of the LACs i visited, yet the students there didn't seem to have a need to let it consume them or talk about it all the time.</p>
<p>I would agree that AWS are academically and reputationally unseparable. Wesleyan is slightly less selective, and in some circles slightly less prestigious. Wesleyan also is slightly less wealthy than AWS, but the differences really are small.</p>
<p>It's true that the biggest difference between AWS and Wesleyan are in the atmosphere of the places. I'd characterize Williams as being far more outdoorsy and active than athletic--the sports teams certainly do well, but I'd say the pervasive campus movement is towards student extracurricular involvement; not specifically athletic involvement. Williams students come out in strong numbers to support the athletic teams, but they also come out in droves to theatre performances, art shows, symphony recitles, etc. The music/art/drama scene at Williams is also extremely strong (at least as big as Swat and Wesleyan...probably bigger than Amherst). Politically, Williams students are actively and involved, but compared to their extreme engagement in all other facets of college life, Ephs are politically apathetic by comparison. </p>
<p>Amherst is a little smaller than Williams, and is probably most differentiated from the other schools you're looking at by its membership in the 5CC. There is a large state school and two all-women's colleges in close proximity to Amherst. While Swarthmore is also part of a consortium, it's not as near the other colleges (and my impression was that there wasn't quite as much inter-college mixing as at Amherst).</p>
<p>Swarthmore is the smallest of the three (1300 compared to 1700 at Amherst and 2000 at Williams). I think the difference between 1300 and 2000 is pretty significant--I personally found 1300 to be just too small for me. Typical Swarthmore students are described as "quirky" which I think is a euphamism for "geeky." Swat has a reputation for being a politically active campus.</p>
<p>Wesleyan is the largest of the three (I believe 2700). Despite this, campus culture-wise, Wes is probably most similar to Swat. Wesleyan is extremely PC and radically left-wing (even compared to the other schools, which are also quite liberal). There are probably no schools more politically active than Wesleyan (although several, including Oberlin are pretty similar). The movie PCU was supposedly loosely based off of Wesleyan.</p>
<p>I don't know...as a Wesleyan student who lived at Williams in a dorm with a bunch of Williams kids all summer while doing research with a Williams professor, I think people overestimate the difference in "campus culture." Trying to quantify how many people on any campus fall into cookie-cutter stereotype X would be splitting hairs, and doing a disservice to everyone.</p>
<p>All the schools mentioned here are pretty "liberal," but to suggest that Wesleyan is "radically left-wing even compared to ther schools" is going way overboard. Most students are pretty mainstram northeast democrats, and that's not much different from our "peer schools". There are a couple self-styled "radicals" who talk a tough game, but no one says you need to listen to or engage that if you don't want to. You're in college, you can do your own thing.</p>
<p>Edit to add: I would also like to disagree with the categorical statement that "Swat kids have more work [than Wesleyan kids]." This completely depends on how you define "work", how much time you want/need to put into it, and what field you're studying, to name a few factors.</p>
<p>Haon:</p>
<p>The only correction I would make to what you wrote is that Swarthmore has been around 1450 students in recent years. Their target for this year was 1500. I know the freshman class was larger than their target, but I haven't seen overall fall enrollment figures for the whole school yet. They were at 1462 last year. Based on the size of the last graduating class and the size of the freshman class, they should be pretty close to 1500.</p>
<p>My appologies on both counts. The "radically left-wing even compared to ther schools" line was a bad combination of edits... the comparison and "radically left-wing" should not have both been in that sentence. I think Wesleyan is more liberal than AWS, and I think it's radically left wing compared to the general US populace, but that doesn't necessarily make it a whole lot more left wing than AWS (which are all also pretty liberal). You're also right that the majority of students at these schools are far more similar than different. However, i think the school's respective campus culture's are much more different than the school's respective educations offered.</p>
<p>Hoan:</p>
<p>It occurs to me that we should emphasize to high school students and their parents that all of these colleges have all types of students.</p>
<p>For example, Williams has jocks, geeks, grinds, slackers, science nerds, frat-boys, musicians, preps, hippies, vegetarians, tree-huggers, future investment bankers, future philosophy professors, blacks, Asians, gays, drinkers, teetotallers, pot smokers, and so on and so forth.</p>
<p>Swarthmore has jocks, geeks, grinds, slackers, science nerds, frat-boys, musicians, preps, hippies, vegetarians, tree-huggers, future investment bankers, future philosophy professors, blacks, Asians, gays, drinkers, teetotallers, pot smokers, and so on and so forth.</p>
<p>Same for Amherst.</p>
<p>When we talk about the differences in "campus culture" we are really talking about the relative proportions. In some case, the proportions are high enough to become quite noticeable. In other cases, they are not.</p>