Hey guys,
I am an athlete and my commitment deadline is around the corner. I intend to take computer science and also complete pre-med requisites as well. I am keeping CS as a backup, as getting into medical school as an international is tough. I would like a mild social scene(not too dull) with strong academics so that a job after school is in my list? HOW SHOULD I GO ABOUT IT?
sorry I am nervous, this is urgent.
THANKS!
All 4 are good. All 4 are rather similar to each other with respect to size/curriculum/quality/atmosphere. If you have any hope at all for admission (as an international) to a US medical school, they wonât care which of these you attend.
Especially for CS, Swarthmore has 2 things going for it. The consortium relationship (with Haverford, BMC, Penn) potentially expands the number of available CS professors and courses. The suburban Philadelphia location potentially expands your access to internships.
Computing skills are very marketable. This fact (probably more than the intrinsic appeal of the subject) has made it a very popular major. Small colleges (even rich, selective ones) may have a hard time attracting and retaining enough professors, or offering enough courses, to meet demand. So review faculty rosters and course schedules carefully.
@tk21769: Swarthmore has had some issues with respect to over-demand for CS courses. Though the OP may want to read the included article for general reference, I nonetheless wouldnât recommend that he base his decision on a situation that simply may have received less notice elsewhere.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/24/technology/computer-science-courses-college.html
Additionally, Swat has an engineering program that offers several classes of interest to CS majors. The other three, especially Carleton, are strong in the sciences but do not offer engineering.
That said, Swarthmore is a tough place to be pre-med. These are all top-notch schools, but Swat is rightfully (in)famous for its rigorous academics.
I wish that I could remember where I read it, but a Swarthmore grad talked about how he wanted to be pre-med but Swat definitely had weeding-out courses (courses designed to be so difficult that many pre-med students end up changing their focuses). He talked about a chemistry course, I believe, where the professor skipped the first 120 pages in the textbook because he said, âYou already know this from high school.â The problem? The Swat gradânow very successful in another fieldâhadnât learned those âbasicsâ in his high school chemistry course. The gradâs takeaway was that sometimes one should look outside the âeliteâ colleges if one wants to be pre-med, as itâs more important to be in an environment that truly supports its pre-med hopefuls. Anyone else familiar with the article that contained this anecdote?
Anyhoo, there are probably CS professionals on this board, but I wonder if it matters that much where one earns a CS degree if A) the CS program is solid, and, B ) the overall reputation of the college is strong (the OP is looking at four excellent schools). My advice: choose the college that offers you the best financial aid package and that feels like it will be the best fit. Really, all four schools are peer institutions.
Am familiar with 3 of the 4 schools, as S1 was recruited by Swat, Carleton, and Grinnell for athletics.
-First of, you havenât mentioned your sportâŠmakes a difference. You will be spending a lot of time practicing, training, and playing, so the ambience surrounding your sport is important.
- All three have excellent reps academically, with Swat and Carleton having superb reps. Not sure that Carleton would be any less rigorous than Swat. CS seems to be a work in progress at a lot of schools, both big and small. Not sure that CS would be a strength of a LAC, in any event.
- S1 preferred Carleton to Swat(was offered to both). Felt that Swat had a strong SJW minority that was antagonistic towards athletes, and prevalent on the campus in general. Not his thing. This attitude wasnât present at Carleton. Also felt that Carleton was more laid back in general, which suited him.
-Grinnell was too isolated for himâŠhe knew that area of Iowa. Great facilities, though.
- In asking around at Swat, S1 said it was rare for any students to take advantage of the âconsortiumâ. They are simply to busy to take a train to Penn, and most felt that the courses at Swat would be better than most that they could have at any of the other schools. An athlete would have even less time. Some might take courses at Bryn Mar for non academic reasons.
- A place like Grinnell or Macalester would be a slight notch down in academic intensity, though they are both still excellent schools with excellent facilities. If you are a very strong student then they might be places that are in a "sweet spotâ - rigorous, yet allowing one to excel marks wise, which is key for med school. My wife went to a âlesserâ LAC as an international, aced her courses, and got into a renowned Medical school.
- I know nothing about Vassar.
- I donât know that Swat would be more exciting than Carleton. The latter has a larger student body, and shares the town with St. Olaf, which has 3,000 students. St. Olaf is much closer than either Haverford or BMC is. Swat is in a quiet suburban spot. Grinnell is pretty much out on itâs lonesome.
Sorry but I forgot to mention, I play tennis and have been offered spots at all of the above colleges. I have been offered places at Occidental, UMW, Bates, Oberlin and Skidmore if that changes anything. Only Bates,Swarthmore, and Vassar have told me that financial aid will not be possibility. One more thing Iâll have to add is that Carletonâs coach is also the biology professor and a member of the pre med committee as well ;). Kindly give your updates on the same.
Thank you so much for helping me out, sitting far away from The Sates places me at a tough situation on making a commitment to all of the above mentioned prestigious colleges.
My D18 did not apply to Swat but her closest friend did and now attends. Sheâs had a good experience, but reports everything is âextra.â âExtraâ activism, âextraâ academics, âextraâ . . . you name it. Amazing educational opportunities and beautiful campus, but my D didnât apply b/c she felt it was too intense â the people more so than the classes.
My D was accepted to and considered Carleton and Grinnell (though she ended up choosing another college.) Carleton was a real contender, and I think she would have thrived there. Laid back, smart kids with so much to offer. She never made it to actually visit Grinnell. The cold winters at both were turnoffs.
Donât know anything about Vassar.
If it were me, Iâd pick Carleton.
Congrats to you and good luck!!
All 4 of those schools will allow you to get you where you want to go for med school/career. Possible considerations: Swarthmore is known as a fairly intense academic community while Carleton is on a trimester so that can affect the timing between academic terms and sports seasons. Vassar and Grinnell were two schools my D3 kid really liked â warm communities, great academics, beautiful campuses. Grinnell is known for excellent sciences, in part because its massive endowment has allowed it to invest in infrastructure and programs for quite some time. If it were my kid being recruited for those schools, he would have chosen Grinnell in a heartbeat. Bates and Oberlin would be close runners up.
This is a very difficult call for me. Swarthmore has a beautiful campus and is a suburban campus which is a positive however the academics there are very intense and it will be tough to do CS+pre med there. Carleton is a good school and its giving me financial aid as well which is good thing. Grinnell is a rural campus but has a good science department. Vassar I donât think is that good right?? Bates coach told me that they have a very good medical school acceptance rate. I would need help from you guys. Sitting far away makes it difficult
On its surface, Vassar might appeal most to students interested in fields such as fine arts and literature. Nonetheless, at its core itâs a tradition liberal arts college with a wide array of majors and programs as well as a nicely intellectual atmosphere. However your other choices resolve, Iâd recommend you keep Vassar in your top two.
Academically, they are peer schools â I wouldnât say any of them are of a different caliber of school than the others, so it comes down to factors like financial aid/affordability, team and coach vibe, campus vibe, and ability to manage academic goals and athletic commitments. Am I understanding correctly that you said Swat, Vassar and Bates each said you will get no aid? Unless your family can easily pay $250,000 for college without blinking and still help with medical school, then consider removing any school which you will not get merit aid from the list. That leaves Oberlin, Skidmore, Grinnell and Carleton â all of which are terrific schools and will prepare a student for med school. Of those 4, Grinnell and Carleton have a slightly stronger academic reputation. Grinnell sciences are top notch with amazing facilities amazing and we loved Grinnellâs flexible curriculum, collaborative campus community, and the gorgeous facilities. The Carleton coachâs role in pre-med advising seems like opportunity to keep both parts of your college experience âin sync.â Iâd dig more deeply with conversations with coaches, teams at Carleton and Grinnell, particularly comparing pros and cons of trimester and spring sport.
Speaking of infrastructures, Vassar has recently completed a rather handsome new science center.
Thank you first of all for your deep analysis. Yes you are right, swat etc are not giving any need based aid. Financial aid is not a deciding factor in my application however as a child I would like my family to go through as less financial burden as possible. If we donât give any preference to financial aid then among Swat, Carleton, Oberlin, Bates and Grinnell which one will have strong job prospects and also a chance of getting into med school. Also the social scene plays a little part in my choice. I do believe that Swat is not known for its social scene.
U.S. News reports information for early career salaries. Of the above schools, Swarthmore places highest by this measure. However, the information for Oberlin is not available, and all of the schools may need to be adjusted for regional variations in the cost of living as well as for personal career choices that may not be driven primarily by salary considerations.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/swarthmore-college-3370
^Swarthmore is also the only college of the three with an engineering school which, Iâm pretty sure skews the results. In fact, unless the OP plans on being an engineer, none of the numerous ROI rankings out there hold much water.
âconsider removing any school which you will not get merit aid from the list. That leaves Oberlin, Skidmore, Grinnell and Carleton â all of which are terrific schools and will prepare a student for med school.â
The only merit aid Carleton gives is $2K for National Merit Scholarships.
It sounds like OP wonât qualify for need based aid anywhere.
I wouldnât include Oberlin with Swarthmore, Vassar, Bates etc (in terms of reputation). Its enrollment, I believe, is declining (from reading on CC).
Perhaps one way for you to narrow it down is to decide what kind of setting you would like, as that is something thatâs different between some of the schools.
One update: Swarthmore is ready to give me CS along with pre med requisites as well.
I have already talked to coaches and my family qualifies for need based aid at Carleton and Grinnell