Help! Brown vs. Swarthmore vs. Vassar

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>Throughout my college admissions process, CC has been an invaluable resource, especially since I come from a school where no one really applies to schools outside of the state universities. I was accepted to all three of my reach schools (much to my surprise!) and now have no clue how to pick. I'm looking to study English and will receive wonderful financial aid from all three (however, because of this, I won't be able to transfer if I decide I don't like it). Here's the breakdown: </p>

<p>Brown
PROS:
-The Ivy name
-Small city seems to be a great environment
-Larger size might be beneficial--not seeing the same people all the time
-Great opportunities, alumi network
-Open curriculum</p>

<p>CONS:
-University rather than LAC
-Environment might be intimidating
-Campus isn't quite as attractive as the other two*</p>

<p>*I haven't visited yet, will be attending ADOCH next week.</p>

<p>Swarthmore
PROS:
-Close to home and family
-Beautiful campus
-Quirky students
-Ability to take courses at Bryn Mawr, Haverford, & UPENN
-Proximity to Philly
-Top LAC</p>

<p>CONS:
-No open curriculum (gym requirements?!)
-I've heard the students are extremely stressed out,not very social (I'm very outgoing)
-Might be too small </p>

<p>*Will be attending Ride the Tide this week</p>

<p>Vassar
PROS:
-My absolute favorite campus. It's idyllic.
-Amazing students, I feel like I would really fit in
-Open curriculum is something I would REALLY like.
-Size is perfect--not too small, not too big</p>

<p>CONS:
-Not as "highly ranked" as the other two
-Too far from anything (I have lived outside of Philly my whole life, so I don't know if I could handle being in the middle of nowhere)
-Poughkeepsie isn't too nice
-Male/female ratio (I'm a girl)
-Not very diverse (I'm first-gen biracial, come from lower-middle class single-parent family) </p>

<p>Any help from current students, alumni, or parents would be greatly appreciated!</p>

2

<p>Vassar is still a top LAC, and you’re certainly not going to be at any detriment going there. From everything I hear, even though Vassar itself isn’t very diverse, as a community it’s very accepting of minorities. It sounds to me like Vassar ought to be your top choice, because you feel like you’d ‘fit in’, and the open curriculum appeals to you so much. </p>

3

<p>Brown</p>

4

<p>Thanks @Guest15! I really love Vassar. My only concern is that I won’t be able to get as many internships since I’m not near a big city. I’m also thrown off by the fact that it’s 60% female and I’ve heard that a large percentage of the male students are not interested in women (not that I am homophobic); it would be nice to meet a nice guy or two in college since all the ones in my town are basically losers. Nonetheless, Vassar gives me the warm fuzzies. </p>

<p>@d0texe Thanks for your comment. Why Brown? </p>

5

<p>Well, you’ll be able to get internships, but the nature of them will probably be different. They will be hooking you up with stuff in Poughkeepsie - which might not be as desirable as what you’d find in Providence or Philly. In terms of the male-female ratio though, I think it’d be best if you talked to current Vassar students. They ought to be able to shed light on the dating scenes and things like that.</p>

<p>I would have to rank Brown second among your choices, though, if those negatives about Vassar really turn you off. Although it’s really a large research university, it’s undergrad school functions much like an LAC does. Around 70% of classes at both Swarthmore and Brown have less than 20 students (The 30% over are probably science/math classes, anyways), so you’re going to be getting personal attention from professors no matter where you go. </p>

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<p>Here’s an old post from a student who attended Vassar and Brown <a href=“Brown vs Vassar - #4 by tsakashvili - Brown University - College Confidential Forums”>Brown vs Vassar - #4 by tsakashvili - Brown University - College Confidential Forums;

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<p>I’m a biased single parent. These are all wonderful choices. My daughter liked the campus at Brown very much and didn’t find it intimidating there. The larger classes at Brown include intro to econ, Chem, intro to CS which is well reputed despite that. There will be smaller discussion/lab sections. When you get a little more into your department it is likely to be an intimate experience and it might be right away in some depts. </p>

<p>She liked working with grad students on research and interacting in department info sessions and ‘teas’ as an upperclassman and it was beneficial to see what they were up to.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t worry too much about internships, At Vassar you will have the opportunity to do an internship in Philly or NYC or DC or wherever you look for one. One thing about Brown, is because of the size and the smallness of the grad school, there are a lot of work study jobs and they are really varied. They will have the usual types–one poster in the Brown forum loved working for the dining services all 4 years–but there are a lot of positions working with professors too which can be really good experience for you. My daughter ran cognitive science experiments on human subjects, worked at the brain research institute, crunched numbers for a physics professor and got a trip to the FERMI lab with his research group, was a upper division TA and the most pay and flex hours was working at the call center calling alumni for donations.</p>

<p>You still need to keep an open mind since you have your visits coming up. I have a young friend in the same position with visits up to the last minute. Hope you enjoy them.</p>

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<p>My daughter goes to Vassar. She is bi-racial and from very low-middle class family. She has tons of friends and feel very comfortable being there. There are lots of cute gay guys but there are also lots of cute straight guys. She is dating now. I think it’s wonderful that gays and lesbians feel comfortable being themselves on campus.</p>

<p>If you are a big city girl, you might feel trapped sometimes. How often do you have to be in the big city? My daughter just had a field trip to NYC in one of her classes. Anyway, you will be quite busy with study and there are loads of activities on the weekend of campus. My daughter is an urban girl on the west coast but because she is a homebody she is not feeling she is trapped.</p>

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<p>Thank you all so much for your responses. It means a lot, especially since the people around here are of little to no help. You have a lot of valuable insight and I will keep your accounts in mind during my visits. Any more comments? </p>

10

<p>Swarthmore and Brown have sufficiently greater gravitas when it comes to graduate school and employment prospects to suggest that if you are going to choose Vassar the fit preference needs to be very substantial. </p>

<p>Hopefully your forthcoming trips to Swarthmore and Brown will give you a better sense for the schools, the students and where you are most likely to enjoy your four years. While I would give the edge to Swarthmore with regard to where you will receive the best education and have the strongest graduate school and employment prospects (I am biased toward the LAC trinity (Swarthmore, Amherst and Williams) particularly if the alternative is not HYPSM), the differences between Swarthmore and Brown are nominal enough that it should really come down to a fit preference. </p>

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<p>@am61517‌ </p>

<p>How do you possibly know that Swarthmore has ‘sufficiently greater gravitas’ when it comes to graduate school than Vassar? Have you worked on a graduate admissions committee?</p>

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<p>@ Guest 15 - You can’t be serious? Do your homework.</p>

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<p>Yes, I am serious. Do you have any sort of proof behind the statement you’re making, or are you just going off your pre-conceived notions of prestige? </p>

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<p>That was a cute edit. Denigrating someone else’s knowledge does not amount to an argument. </p>

15

<p>For better or worse preconceived notions of prestige are shaped by the realities of the decisions adcoms and employers make over an extended period of time. Rather than spending a great deal of time debating I will simply point you to a thread, that while rather amusing and purely based on conjecture, does have more than a grain of truth (and, ironically, is a pretty good reflection of the perceived reality - not of mine but of the contributors to CC). You will also find I had no input in the 12 pages of CC member contributions to the development of the list. </p>

<p><a href=“Ranking Colleges by Prestigiosity - #166 by rjkofnovi - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/978040-ranking-colleges-by-prestigiosity-p12.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The above thread is a summary of the copious evidence that could be pulled together to support my earlier question. </p>

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<p>@Guest15 - My apologies, it was not my intention to denigrate - should have edited myself yet again. It is also not my intention to denigrate Vassar which is an excellent LAC. It was only to help the OP understand the trade-offs. In re-reading my first post, while I will stand by the overall premise, I would be more sensitive by suggesting a lower level of fit preference necessary to choose Vassar over the other two schools.</p>

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<p>Yes, the thread is amusing - and yes, it certainly reflects part of the notions of prestige that people on the CC board might have. I will readily admit that Swarthmore as an institution has more ‘prestige’ than Vassar does - however, there’s nothing you stated that shows it has more ‘gravitas’ when it comes to graduate school admissions. The notions of prestige that people have on college confidential don’t necessarily have any correlation with the actual decisions made by decisions adcoms. And I don’t think how graduate schools view undergraduate institutions has much correlation with prestige, either. I’d like to see evidence to the contrary.</p>

<p>The problem with making a statement like that is that even if you did manage to demonstrate that people went on to more prestigious graduate schools from Swarthmore, that could very well be just because of a more academically-oriented or high-achieving student body. </p>

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<p>@Guest15, </p>

<p>I have had sufficient experience with family and friends sitting on graduate school adcoms (and teaching at the graduate level at Harvard, Yale, MIT, UPenn, UMichigan and Oxford) and have participated in a sufficient number of ibank, corporate and non-profit hiring committees to have a very clear understanding of how professors and business people value the graduates of the various Ivies, Ivy equivalents and LACs. Unfortunately, outside of the academic world it is predominantly based on perception (and the thread I passed on is as good a reflection of those biases as I have seen - albeit there are a few LACs I would add such as Pomona, Bowdoin, Carleton, Haverford, Wellesley, Claremont-M, Middlebury, Weslayan, and, yes, Vassar). </p>

<p>Within the academic world there is a bit more understanding and appreciation of the shaping that takes place at the various undergrads. At the elite graduate schools the candidates provided by Swarthmore are considered to be among the very best and in line with HYPSM. I can’t tell you specifically why Swarthmore candidates, broadly speaking, perform at such a high level. It could be that Swarthmore attracts a more academically oriented student body, or that the quality of the matriculants is outstanding, or that they are harder working, or that the interactions with the professors and other students result in a more refined thought process, or all of the above. </p>

<p>What should be important to the OP is the knowledge that by attending Swarthmore she is likely to be better prepared to succeed in graduate school or the working world, in part due to the way she will be shaped by her environment and in part based on the perceived value of the degree to adcoms and hiring committees. The one caveat to this is that she is likely to perform best where she is happiest - so we are back to the importance of fit. </p>

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<p>@am61517‌ To what extent would you say the prestige of Amherst/Swarthmore differ with Pomona? I am currently attempting to make my decision and leaning towards the latter.</p>

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<p>@Mafrio I will offer an opinion, but the answer really varies with your context, and, in the case of Pamona is likely to continue to evolve over the next few years. While the reputations of most schools are long established and don’t evolve much, Pamona is clearly on the rise. If you are on the West Coast it is probably equivalent to SAW (among those in the know). On the East Coast it still lags, although the gap is closing. I anticipate Pamona will continue to strengthen within the context of SAW much as Stanford has become the equal of HYP in all material respects (and if you want a career in Silicon Valley often a preferred alternative). If I were in your shoes, given the relative equality and likely projected path I would make the decision between Amherst, Swarthmore and Pamona strictly based on your sense of “fit.” Where will you be happiest and have the greatest affinity with the students and environment. Pamona may not currently be as “safe” a choice, but the risk of it not having a stellar (and equivalent) reputation over the medium to long term is IMO very low.</p>