@shishamo@GKmom23 tonygrace thanks for your comments, will double check with each coach, hopefully that resolves one sticking
problem.
the real challenge now is to move to pre-read. D24 isn’t interested in attending girl schools, otherwise could be attractive for a slower program like Wellesley.
Discussions include for example a great school where she would rank #1/#3/#4/#8 for her events in their current roster and near their upper 25% in terms of grades/SAT, has a great academic program in her intended major. On the surface, it seems like a great fit in all respects, and a win win for all parties, but no one can predict what the coach wants. D24 hopes to be called for pre-read; as an external party one would assign a very decent “chance”…
interesting coach conversations brought up that for the class of 2023, coaches can be awaiting answers from swimmers who were accepted RD, have tips, but are also awaiting admission to higher priority schools. this brings up couple points:
many D3 coaches have 2-3 formal fully supported recruits who account for part of the incoming class, with the rest from RD/tips & RD/walk-ons
it underscores the importance of the early mutual commitment between coaches and fully supported swimmers in the ED round
This raises a question: do coaches sometimes have the bandwidth to offer full support in the ED2 round, either because something didn’t pan out in ED1, or the admissions office wanted to further increase their yield, or any other reason?
Yes, coaches at these schools can and do offer full support slots in ED2, EA, and even RD (of course limited by what rounds of admission their school has).
This seems to underscore the importance of maintaining dialogue with other coaches even after a swimmer’s gained full support/passed pre-reads/made a commitment/applied ED. Alternatively, whilst less likely and that from ideal, this could also potentially apply to an athlete who wasn’t recruited by any school coach in the ED round.
He can then confirm and update the other coaches once he’s admitted ED. that provides some level of protection in the very unlikely case where the initial ED application didn’t proceed to plan
This, in general, would be fine as long as you are truthful with the other coaches and let them know you’ve applied ED to another school. During a “break up” call, a coach may explicitly tell your athlete to let them know if things fall through with the school they’re committing/applying ED to. If a recruit is high enough on their board, they may leave a spot open for ED2 or RD. But be open about it.
That was our experience (with T&F). In some break-up calls it was clear that there was no going back, while in others the coach made it known that the door was open for subsequent rounds if things didn’t work out with my son’s ED1 choice.
indeed it was a suggestion for D24 to engage with a slower D3 school with strong academics where her times would be #2/#2/#3/#1 in their current roster, as that school offers the flexibility of having ED1/ED2/RD rounds. she’s looking closely at that possibility, and hopefully could catch that late train
As long as she is building a relationship with the coach now.
Just to play out scenarios, that potential opportunity could end up being the only one. Or, if that coach offered your D, but she turned it down for another school, the coach could cut her completely loose and fill all their slots in ED with no support of any type offered in any other round. It’s impossible to handicap without full information, which your D will never have. The possible scenarios are many, so I would not get ahead of the process.
at this stage, the opportunity is really about adding a school where she should really be recruited on paper, and time will tell whether she’s recruited by several school coaches in 4-8 weeks time, which by then would be a good problem to have.
This is smart. Just remember when you are looking at current roster, you don’t know who has been recruited for this year (although they might start welcoming them on their IG page) or who the coach is talking to in your D’s class. You will never have as much information as you would like.
This example illustrates a case where only the coach knows what strokes/athlete he’s looking for:
D24 checked one school where she ranks #1/#3/#4/#8 for her events in their current roster, and it has recruited a 2023 freshman that would push her ranks to #2/#4/#4/#8, not counting additional second/third 2023 recruits. This explains why the coach is seeking to recruit in another stroke for 2024
whilst many conversations are very similar, one point on which coaches are substantially different in style is one camp is very clear about times required to be recruited and the specific needs the team has for 2024 freshman year, whilst the other camp have general guidelines and say “keep improving and keep us posted with your progress” and seem to be politely keeping a bucket of backup swimmers for either tips or walk-on places.
one clear line of differentiation are the coaches asking very specific grades/SAT/academic information, essentially making sure that they will be able to present that athlete for pre-read. Those seem to be the coaches that are truly and immediately interested in recruiting you.
Depends. Some coaches’ experience with their AO may indicate pretty bright lines in academic hurdles that need to be met for the AO. If they know for their sport that the AO will want to see at least “32” ACT and a “3.8” UW GPA minimum, then they will tell all recruits that, whether or not they have a real interest in that recruit. Now for some of the highly desired recruits that are under a hurdle, the coach may specifically reach out to the kid and say, I really need you to get to 32 or higher, if you do, I can put you to the top of my list. Until they tell you that last part, don’t infer anything.
D24’s concern is more about getting into the top3 on the coaches’ list than demonstrating she has the grades to pass pre reads, outside of Caltech & MIT. The journey continues with a trickling clock
at this point in the recruiting process, your daughter should have a pretty clear understanding of where she falls and if she is in the “top 3” you mention. When you are a highly sought after recruit you know it and can tell the difference between a school that wants you and a school that is just keeping you around. But if she is unsure, she can get on the phone and directly ask the coaches where she stands within their 2024 class. My daughter frequently asked coaches stating that a school was in her top three but at this point she really needed to know where she was in the coaches view with regards to the 2023 class. I would say the vast majority, if not all, were very honest and forth coming
There are some coaches who don’t want to encourage (or really to deal with) a student whose academics don’t match the school. I read an essay by a Yale coach who said they look at the grades and scores of younger players, in their sophomore or junior year and really only support those who have the minimum grades they state, whether it be a 3.8 or no C’s or whatever. They may say to bring up the grades or the test schools, but really that athlete is already marginal for being recruited. The coaches know how tough the academics are, know how adding sports to that might make it even tougher, so they don’t recruit those who aren’t at that level. It isn’t really getting them through the pre-read so much as is the student going to be able to cut it academically once in the school.
IMO, coaches aren’t trying to sneak kids through the academic admissions portion. The coaches want really strong students too.
should be pretty obvious to everyone that D24 isn’t a highly sought after recruit, and it’s pretty clear that even schools where she would rank high on swimcloud aren’t really responding with much excitement beyond “keep updating us”, so we should be able to close this thread pretty soon.
She has good grades, and odds are will be applying as a non athlete to a broad range of schools
The frustration with the process is real! My daughter wasn’t highly sought after and had an uphill battle due to her size but remember it only takes one coach to have your daughter in their top group.
I didn’t mean to offended, just let you know that your daughter doesn’t have to be guessing where she stands and could just ask coaches - especially heading into spring of her junior year.
There are lots of nos for most kids before they finally get their yes
she’s got many former teammates swimming in college, from early commit at Princeton, normal recruit at Claremont, Canadian U recruit, late summer recruit at NYU, or denied walk-on at D1. All these help her mentally navigate the process.
Whilst her objective has been clear and consistent all along, the ability to stand and face failure is a good life lesson
While this is a realistic acknowledgement, have you considered any schools where your daughter’s athletic achievements make her highly recruitable? The reason I ask this is because athletic recruiting is possibly the last bastion of merit-based college admissions.
In today’s world, good grades and scores mean very little if you are not a minority, or if you an ORM. Before anyone goes crazy, I am an ORM, and chair an alumni interviewing team for my Ivy alma mater. While my data/experience is largely anecdotal, it doesn’t make it wrong.