Congrats. But please start a new thread with your question. We have 620 posts on swimming. We can’t muddy the waters with an off-topic hijack.
3 Likes
Perhaps the environment has changed in very recent years, but several years ago U.S. News included a profile of a football player accepted at Bowdoin with a 3.3 (UW) GPA and an 1120 SAT.
The critical questions for the Canada coach will include:
-
How many swimmers do you recruit / year (current roster of 27 would suggest 7-8/annum), is that on two different batches?
-
Are you looking for particular strokes from the freshman class of 2024? what would be the required times by strokes?
-
Do you recruit them with pre-reads, grades, and expected scores? Or mostly after the regular admission cycle?
This is of a general podcast share, which we wish we had listen to during sophomore year. Interview between the current Dean of Admissions at Dartmouth, and Former Dartmouth Athletics Director, Harvard Basketball coach, Northwestern Coach.
An important quote: “Keep asking coaches if you’re being recruited. If they don’t respond, go look elsewhere”
The Intersection of Athletics and Admissions Beat with @TuneIn. #NowPlaying Admissions Beat | Listen to Podcasts On Demand Free | TuneIn
1 Like
Interesting podcast, thanks for sharing.
I gave it a listen because I was surprised a coach would say what you quoted.
Turns out, that is not what he said.
He said you should ask if a coach is supporting your application, not whether you’re being recruited.
These are very different things. There’s a formal definition of recruit that does not necessarily imply support. Pretty much anyone a coach contacts multiple times, invites for an official visit, chats with off campus, etc. is a recruit. But not every recruit will receive support or, where applicable, a scholarship.
This is obviously an important question to ask at the right point in the process (not right away) but if one uses the wrong words the answer won’t mean much.
This is why I suggest learning about the coach’s process as early as possible, asking what the timeline is for deciding who to support, and then if it seems appropriate asking if a recruit has a realistic chance to be in that group of supported athletes. Coaches are very good at artfully communicating that answer but one needs to listen and interpret carefully.
7 Likes
given where D24 is in the process, we definitely associate Recruit and Support, maybe a technical mistake in the choice of words, as you pointed out.
In our vocabulary, “Being Recruited” means either the coach originated the original email/call/zooom, or is subsequently expressing direct interest in having the athlete attend a formal campus visit and/or be recruited on his team. So far D24 hasn’t experienced either.
In our distorted vocabulary, a coach “accepting a zoom call” requested by D24 means he sees a swimmer who could potential swim faster to the cuts he’s looking for, or could be admitted as a regular applicant and walk-on. Those swimmers are welcomed to visit the campus and meet the coach, but aren’t invited to meals and overnight stay with future teammates. It’s more of a positive PR exercise in the coach’s part. Self paid college visits are costly, and we are wondering if they are worthwhile if the coach hasn’t at least confirmed where D24 is on his recruit list, so that she can realistically gauge the actual possibility of being recruited with full support for either a slot or a tip.
You are thinking way to narrow. I return to the concept that your child will know when they are being recruited and a coach wants them. That doesn’t mean the coach will pay for things like visits (many schools don’t have the budget for this), and it doesn’t mean you will get a coach supported application. But it does mean the coach thinks you could be an asset for their program.
By spring of junior year a coach should be having honest discussions with your daughter regarding where they are with their 2024 class and where she falls on their board. She needs to listen to those responses with an open ear and clear head because the answers are probably being said.
Many coaches will respond to emails and set up phone calls or zoom calls with many recruited as the first steps in the process. They know they are dealing with kids and that many kids are new to the process so many coaches are accommodating and polite. These calls are step one in a 10 step process. Again of the coach starts texting to check in, sets up calls with current athletes, helps facilitate meetings with admissions, and at this point starts discussing the admissions process then you are moving up in the steps.
Was this coach from the “safety” school in Canada? Hopefully he provided the answers to the questions you were seeking.
2 Likes
we may think narrow, but it is “spring of junior year”, and no coach has been forthcoming about “where they are with their 2024 class and where she (D24) falls on their board”.
-
coach1 did suggest a call with a current freshman swimmer with whom D24 will be training this summer, and was very clear about their recruiting selections taking place closer to the summer. Seeking backstroke & sprinters
-
coach2 mentioned that pre-read wouldn’t be an issue for D24
-
coach3 asked for NESCAC T16 times to be considered… clear
-
All coaches in active dialogue are forthcoming about scheduling a summer visit. we remain convinced that summer visits should be at schools where D24 knows where she stands on the coach’s list of recruits and basically has a chance to be fully support for a slot or a tip
Zoom call with Canada coach is about to take place, and should be instructive about the process in Canada, and informativr about how it is different from the US college process.
Journey continues. Maybe “our” oversimplification, general impression is that T16 Conference & T3 team in 2 events (same stroke, in her case Free), or 3 events (2 strokes, in her case Free & Fly/IM) makes D24 close to eligible for full support on that team. Target those PBs
1 Like
this is an open question to a very puzzling email response.
Below Mid-Conference D3 Head Coach responds that his team’s 2024 Recruiting is complete, and he’s happy to do a zoom call to discuss walk-on possibilities.
We can only see 3 possibilities:
-
coach made an honest mistake and thought D24 was talking about 2023 recruiting rather than 2024
-
coach has already 7-8 committed recruits, something like 2-3 fully supported
slots + 4-5 fully supported tips well before completing pre-reads after 1st July. He’s done without a single formal greenlight from admissions. -
coach has secured so many additional transfer students on top of the incoming freshman 2023 class that he has no more room to accommodate more than a tight handful of 2024 freshman who have all already committed to this team before giving any other team a chance
** as a reference, D24 would rank as follows in that team’s current roster:
50F #4
100F #1
200F #5
50Fly #4
100Fly #11
100IM #3
Which one is it: 1, 2, or 3?!??
If he said his 24 recruiting was done, that means his 24 recruiting is done.
7 Likes
Set up the zoom call so you can confirm it’s not 1 and learn about the walk on process.
But it’s quite possible that he has so many people in play right now who he is confident will pass pre-reads that he is not adding more unless they are super wow.
6 Likes
Maybe we are too innocent in this process, but we thought it is a coach’s professional duty to build the best possible team, or the team that would earn the most points in their conference championship. In that context, D24 herself doesn’t know how much she’ll improve her times by until it’s done, and there could well be a D1 caliber swimmer dropping from her original D1 slot for whatever reason.
in any case, we’re scheduling zoom call to verify that is not #1. indeed, if it’s #2 or #3, there will be no point visiting this school where there is no chance of being recruited
I expect that is his goal. It would seem that her times, in the context of other swimmers he is talking to, don’t get him closer to that goal.
@NiVo , you have been persistent and that will work to your benefit as you chase each lead to its conclusion. At the same time, throughout the process, you have constructed and reconstructed the narrative of the process to suit your wishes – LL, pre-read, timing, etc. With the work you are doing and your D’s academic accomplishments, you will no doubt uncover the opportunities that are there and she will land in a good spot, with or without swimming. But you can’t make it what it’s not because you wish it were so. I say this to you with kindness which is hard to convey in this format.
I really hope this all works out for your D, and I hope you can find some peace too as you go through the process. We’re all invested in her success.
11 Likes
I also would set up the zoom call. I am not sure what mid-conference D3 means, but this could be a school that doesn’t do pre-reads, or if they do, coaches can submit them whenever they want…in terms of conference behaviors only the Ivies and NESCACs have the July 1 pre-read date that all schools must follow (and as we know students verbally commit before then without a formal pre-read because many coaches know what academic profile will work). Beyond that, I agree with everything gardenstategal said above. Good luck to your D.
2 Likes
A lot of older US pools are 6 lanes only, so the #4 swimmer in an event would not see any action. Part of the challenge your D is facing is that her best events are the most common and competitive ones.
I do think the timing is odd though, can you share the school? One is likely. I haven’t heard of any top D3 school being done with recruiting, and stand to reason a lower one would be waiting to see who doesn’t make the cut at a higher one.
It is also possible, like suggested above, they are not looking to currently add to their interest pipeline and poorly stated the case. We heard things like “we are working with our top recruits right now and will know more in a few weeks.”
4 Likes
Canadian Coach offers a very different perspective from US recruiting:
2024 recruiting will include 6-8 slots, D24 @#5 at present, but many more recruits join this process later . The academic requirements remain the same as for the general pool of students. The team is Canada Top5, including a broad range of swimmers.
Timeline is quite different from the US, with most decisions made in the fall of 2023. Personality and fit are strongly weighted by the coach.
6 Likes
it is number 2. he has his athletes that his is submitting for prereads already determined and is comfortable with the verbal commitment he made with the players that his 2024 class is complete. This is a very typical response for spring of junior year at highly desirable schools - either d1 athletes or highly selected d3s and is what many have been cautioning your about regarding your daughter’s current list and the need to cast a wider net if she wants to swim next year. My daughter is a soccer player and she was getting that response from similar schools in the fall of her junior year, so not at all uncommon
honest question - do you think your daughter’s academics make it unlikey she would be admitted without support? a walk on spot at a great schools is a solid option. Also, set up the call - the more practice talking to coaches the better and it is better to not burn any bridges.
2 Likes
This.
4 Likes
it is aboslutely the coaches job to build the best team - but you need to realize that many athletes started this process much sooner and therefore were able to build relationships with coaches earlier, many times before junior year even starts (or earlier). You are targeting schools that nearly all the top swimmers in the US and internationally would be targeting, and while your daughter is a very strong swimmer she is not world or Olympic caliber so a coach likely has many options for swimmers with times and academics similar to your daughter. They will no displace one commit (even if verbal) for another commit of the same caliber. You need to be thankful that the coach responded and was open and establish the possibility of a follow up if you apply and then move on. Just be prepared for similar responses from many of your schools as you move into summer. Your list is really too small and made up of too many highly sought after schools, if swimming in college is a top priority.
2 Likes
Clarification re school with “potentially” fully recruited class of 2024 in Q1 2023
-
zoom call will positively clarify the situation. The school name will be shared if the coach verifies that the 2024 Freshman class is already fully committed, with no room for additional recruits irrespective of D24’s times
-
if there are no recruiting/coach support opportunities at this school, D24 will strike it off her college list
-
This is a NESCAC school, with 1350-1510 SAT