<p>My son is currently a junior in high school, a breaststroker with 100Y time of 1:00+ and IM of 2:02+. Given his improvement curve in the past 3 years and extra training, he is looking to get his times to 57-58(100Y Breast) and 1:57-1:58 (100Y IM) respectively by Nov, 2013. Hopefully another second by Feb, 2014 with full taper. On the academics side, he has 33 ACT (Eng 34, Math 36, Sci 35 and bad reading at 28) and weighted gpa of 4.3+. His course load is heavy with all the serious AP and honors classes in Junior year with a nice upward slope from his slacking Sophomore year. The downside is that he does not have much other EC activities. Other than some weekend volunteer working, most of his spare time is in the water, either with varsity or club. The only bright spot is that he likely landed an intern opportunity in the lab of a big shot prof at a major university this summer. The school he goes to is a large public school with a reputation for academic excellence. </p>
<p>Assuming he can meet his time targets of 57-58 and 1:57-1:58. Does he have a decent chance of being recruited by the Ivies ( Penn, Dartmouth and Cornell alike) or the Elite D3 schools( Chicago, JHU and WashU etc )? </p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Your son’s major challenge involves timing (and I’ll simply assume your projected time drops just for argument’s sake). For your son’s HS class (2014), recruiting for the Ivy’s is already well underway and, for recruiting purposes, coaches tend to focus on <em>actual times</em> (official swim times listed in the USA swim database). Obviously, coaches understand that swimmers–particularly boys–can physically mature, bulk up, get faster, etc. Nevertheless, when Ivy coaches begin to define their recruiting lists, among those with plausible academics (and your son looks fine on this front) they will focus on those current HS juniors with (multiple) Jr. Nat. cuts. Candidly, there are so many out there, including those with the necessary academic strength, that coaches don’t have to bother looking elsewhere. Moreover, “Junior Days” recruiting events have already taken place and OV invites will begin on/after July 1. As for the “Elite D3” schools, you might peek at results from this year’s NCAA meet for one point of reference. In the 100 breast, for example, you’ll find that it took a 56.53 (SCY) just get <em>invited</em> to the meet. (It took a 1:51.84 in the 2IM.) Seriously, these folks are fast and smart.</p>
<p>Thanks a lot h2ocows. I asked the question based on the times this year’s commitments to those D3 schools have from collegeswimming.com. While there are fast kids there, a fair amount of them are having the time comparable to my son’s targets. Maybe those are just walk-ons not necessarily recruits? </p>
<p>His bottom line is to get into one of those schools whether through recruiting, walk-on or just regular application. Maybe he will not get the full support from coaches. Is it possible to get some support to compliment his academics, knowing that his academic credentials are on the weaker side for those school if not at all impossible.</p>
<p>No problem. Again, yours is an issue of timing. While one cannot accurately discern who was a supported “recruit” from those who simply were admitted and would like to swim, at the margins (on both ends) the swim times will make this distinction pretty obvious. Also, what you need to examine is current HS senior swimmers’ times at the time they completed their <em>junior</em> year (that’s what the college coaches had in front of them when they decided to recruit them). While “target” time and projections might be interesting, all coaches will go on is your son’s actual times–as of now. Finally, just look at the press announcements of prior Ivy swim classes and you’ll see folks with OLY Trials experience for the top-end recruits. Obviously, while your son will certainly want to take full advantage of the taper meets this August to cut more time, be aware that a lot of the recruiting activity will have concluded by then (certainly for the Ivys; less so for NESCAC). As the Ivys’ first recruiting event–Junior Days–has already taken place, if your son hasn’t hear from any college coaches by now, by definition he’s not yet on anyone’s recruiting radar. And, for purposes of admission at most selective schools, you’re either a formally “supported recruit” (“recruit”, “tip”, “slot”, etc.) or not. And, if not, any swimming is more-or-less booked as a generic “extra-curricular” by admissions committees. When the Ivy and elite D3 schools changed their financial award policies about a decade ago, it profoundly altered swimming (and other non-revenue sports) and made it much, much faster.</p>
<p>Most of the recruiting for swimmers will be completed before the EA/ED application deadline, so late summer swims are pretty much your son’s last chance to inspire a coach to support you application. </p>
<p>If you search by team on collegeswimming.com, you can find the date that swimmers posted their commitment to a school. Swimmers who post before November 1 are almost certain supported athletes and those that update their profiles after April 1 probably got in on their own. </p>
<p>Best wishes for a successful recruiting process!</p>
<p>Hi cliffhanger,</p>
<p>My son is a breaststroker and has similar 100 breast and 200 IM times. My d just went through d3 swim recruiting and I feel pretty comfortable with what we learned during that process. I think your son should reach out to the schools he is interested in immediately and if you can do any unofficial visits over the summer that will help. My d was asked for transcripts and test scores starting in about May-June from interested coaches (Ivy and d3), and invited for recruitment weekends starting in September after getting positive responses on the prereads. But the coaches really didn’t tell you where you stood until those recruitment weekends.</p>
<p>I think your son’s times are within range for NESCAC, and he should go ahead and email the coaches and fill out the forms. I do know one swimmer who has about a 1:01 100 breast who emailed Kenyon and was told that they need a faster 100 breast time than that. I think it’s great when the coach responds immediately and tells you this stuff, because then you can think about whether you want to apply to these schools 100% on academics or whether you want to only apply to a school that recruits you. In order to figure out your strategy, you need to get in touch with the coaches and see what they say.</p>
<p>p.s. my daughter had very few extracurriculars–she had a second sport, is a triathlete, etc. but nothing non-athletic except community service! So yes, I would have been a little concerned if she were not a recruit. Fortunately, it all worked out.</p>
<p>h2ocows is not kidding that the times at the Ivies and top D3 schools are dropping faster than gravity. Look at the the NCAA A/B cuts this year and look at the NCAA finals of just a few years back…</p>
<p>D3 coaches take a bit longer because some of their recruiting comes from D1 candidates who either on their own or discover after not getting the support of D1 coaches that they are better suited for D3 (more now the former than the later…). But it takes the kid to figure it out and D3 college coaches know that. Thus August cuts will be critical toward his success.</p>
<p>Also look and see which colleges are stacked or more importantly weak in your son’s strokes-- look at the seniors they will be losing and the freshmen they have just brought on. If a team needs br strokers they will be more open to less than top times than a team that is full up.</p>
<p>Don’t worry about the ECs. He will be fine if he goes the recruitment route. He still has three months of solid long course training with doubles before the championships meet. A 57 or LCM equivalent is definitely doable if he focuses on his training this summer and tapers for that end of the season meet. Not all Ivies had junior days this spring so if he gets on the coaches’ radar screens ASAP it would be ok. He should definitely look at Cornell and Brown. His current times are not quite competitive but he needs to put himself out there now. He also needs to position himself to be able to contribute for three events. PM if you have questions but I am only familiar with the Ivies.</p>
<p>Many thanks to the replies. That helps a lot. He will gives his best shot in the championships meet thisi summer to see how it goes.</p>
<p>In the mean time, I am entertaining backup plan of letting him go for a postgrad year if that helps him to get the best time can. After all, based on his age, he should have been a sophomore according his school’s age cut ( he barely made the cut in the state where he started school). It will be a very expensive alternative. not sure how those schools will view it. Any suggestions?</p>
<p>Doing a PG year can be beneficial in a number of ways, esp if he is young for his class. Aside from allowing him to improve times–and just growing into his adult body will help regardless of the additional training, the chance to further polish his academics and social skills before entering the college hothouse can be good–particularly his he has never boarded before. </p>
<p>While PG is not as usual in swimming as it is in the so-called “helmet sports”, it is not unheard of. I would make a decision before entering the recruitment fray however so it will not appear a move made because of being rejected by coaches but rather a positive move on its own merit. Call the various prep schools’ swim coaches to determine levels of interest.</p>
<p>Cliffhanger,</p>
<p>If you decide to go the PG route I would talk to the Bolles School first. No other program comes close.</p>
<p>Given his times I would cast a wide net. Ivy League schools are a bit of a reach right now but this may change depending on how much his times drop. I would consider adding Crossfit to his training program. Many successful club and college teams (including Emory) use this as part of their dryland training.</p>
<p>Another plan to consider would be to go to a school with an excellent club team close by and train with them for a year if he is not recruited. Some possibilities would include Emory and Dynamo Swim Club or JHU and NBAC. If his club training goes well he could then try out as a walk on or transfer to another school and swim there.</p>
<p>For more data on the transformation underfoot in Ivy / elite D3 swimming, an Amherst recruit (2017) has gone 56.3 / 2:00 in the 1/2 breast strokes. While these times are quite fast for Ivy league recruits, he opted for the NESCAC instead. His 2-breast time would have placed 5th at this year’s NCAA meet.</p>
<p>Yale just signed a breaststroker who swims 1:00 in the 100 breast.</p>
<p>^ Perhaps it’s the case that an outstanding student was admitted to Yale and this admittee happened to have participated on a HS swim team as an extracurricular activity. Or, perhaps you’re referencing a woman (and a 1:00 1-breast would be a spectacular time). While Yale swimming has fallen on awfully hard times of late, 1:00 in the 1-breast for a man simply isn’t a competitive time for HS, let alone D1 college.</p>
<p>H2o</p>
<p>He’s a male.</p>
<p>“1:00 in the 1-breast for a man simply isn’t a competitive time for HS, let alone D1 college.”</p>
<p>I agree.</p>
<p>“Perhaps it’s the case that an outstanding student was admitted to Yale and this admittee happened to have participated on a HS swim team as an extracurricular activity.”</p>
<p>So he may have a high academic index? Maybe so. Hard to tell at this point.</p>
<p>Contact the coaches of the schools that interest your son and where the times look like they will work with the team and take it from there. It is a nerve racking experience I can tell you, having gone through it with my son 15 years ago. Almost got a spot on two ivies, and one coach left, the one school dropped the swim program only to reinstate it due to the outcry. The problem with all of this is that you never know who the coaches have in their back pockets. We found out just by chance at one school as it was a clubmate that they were after. But if your swimmer has competitive times, and his academic index is acceptable, things will open up. Good luck.</p>
<p>You are lucky your sport has times. In team sports, kids live and die by how their teammates do.</p>
<p>I disagree that it is too late to get in contact with Ivy coaches… I got in contact with several coaches in July and August, which is when we scheduled the official visits. I’ve never heard of Junior Days, but as someone who was being recruited by 4+ ivies as far as I can tell they are very informal because most of the other athletes on my trips had not been on campus before. When I did email some more schools in late September in regards to recruiting, only 2 of the ivies had already used all of their LLs, and the rest were still looking for athletes. Don’t procrastinate by any means, and definitely work on getting those times, but don’t panic and think the ship has sailed already.</p>