<p>Hi -<br>
My D is a junior in HS. GPA - 4.0 unweighted (5.1 weighted), AP/IB courses, 1st SAT 670CR, 690M, 790WR. She had a very good freshman year and then had an illness which took her out of the pool most of sophomore year - currently on the comeback trail regaining strength, endurance, etc. Her best times from her freshman year were: 200fr 1:55, 500fr 5:02, 1000fr 10:14, 1650fr 17:11, 100 fly 59.9, 200fl 2:13. Her times have not quite come back yet - 200fr 1:59, 500fr 5:09, 1000fr 10:30, 1650fr 17:27, 100fly 1:00.15. She is looking for a D1 school with excellent academics and a "decent" swim team. She is quite emphatic that it is D1 and that it has both a men's and women's program. She absolutely refuses to look at any D3 schools or schools with only women's programs (I'v tried!!) We are visiting some Ivies and Big East schools this spring and will be meeting with coaches. And she has had some email action from several of them. Are we dreaming? Thank you for any advice/help!</p>
<p>I’m just not seeing Ivies in her future with the combo of scores and times. Need to crack the 700 mark across the board.Her times are good for NESCAC, where she would be much more desirable. If she wants a big-ish school experience with a very strong swim experience, with her scores, why not look at Tufts? She would be in Boston-such a great city-have an excellent education, and their swim team is very tight and has LOTs of spirit.
We were just at NESCACs for men, and I have to say I was impressed by the spirit and support the Tufts men and women seem to have for each other. Lots of signs, cheering, and a huge presence to cheer for the men. I noticed the same level of support last year.
Her grades and scores would be competitive for them, and with coach support, I think she’d be in. Why does she want D1?</p>
<p>We visited Holy Cross and Lafayette with S2 (both D1) schools and they definitely emphasize academics over athletics. I think Holy Cross is SAT optional. So that may work for you. Bucknell and Colgate may be other options (not SAT optional though).</p>
<p>With a 4.0 UW, sign up for the ACT also. You may do much better on the ACT - more straight-forward of a test. Both of our sons did much better on the ACT than the SAT.</p>
<p>I agree with Oldbatsie to seriously consider the NESCAC schools. Also Brandeis is just starting up a swim team again - the new coach there is very nice. You could be a star there. Swarthmore and Vassar are other D3 schools with strong academics and mens/womens teams.</p>
<p>There are actually many options - you could also consider a D1 school like UCONN. I think you may want to think about size and distance for home. that may help you narrow it down a bit…and sign up for the ACT this spring sometime so if she likes it better she can study over the summer and take it in the fall again.</p>
<p>I agree that 700s across the board is the Ivy standard, but her 670/690/790 (2150) might cut it if she is supported by a coach. That will depend on how competitive her times are, which I don’t know. A check of the websites will tell you.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I know of a swimmer with 100 pts less that got recruited by two of the HYP. But you need jr national or better for Harvard. Princeton seems slightly more flexible if you have a high enough AI. Yale seems the most flexible for times of the three. Of course the other Ivies are even easier in terms of times and academics. I know of someone else who swims for Dartmouth who had a3.7 unweighted and 4.4 weighted not sure of the SAT. I Think it is best to fill out the questionnaire and send an email. Most coaches don’t want to waste your time or theirs so they will let you know. I made the mistake of discouraging my daughter from the Ivies because I did not think her academics were strong enough and I didn’t want her disappointed. The day after she committed to another school she got an email from Yale expressing their very strong interest. Although she loves the school she chose, and I know in my heart it is the right place for her, as her mom I am sad that I discouraged the possibility.</p>
<p>As a side note, if she can ever get over that D1 thing, There are some incredible programs out there in d3 that have many advantages.</p>
<p>I heartily agree with Simplymom to aim high also especially with those great swim times and a record of having ‘worked to get back’ after her illness. You could still consider the D1 schools I mentioned above as alternatives. I still think she should take the ACT test even though her SATs are ‘possible’ for some IVY’s. Start the college visits now (while school is in session - you can visit the schools, see the pool etc and see if she even likes the school) because everything will happen quickly in the fall. Enjoy the process.</p>
<p>this may help … [Swimming</a> Recruiting Guidelines](<a href=“http://www.ncsasports.org/recruiting-tools/College-Swimming-Recruiting/swimming-recruiting-guidelines]Swimming”>http://www.ncsasports.org/recruiting-tools/College-Swimming-Recruiting/swimming-recruiting-guidelines)</p>
<p>For the Ives Cornell, Brown, and Columbia may be a good fit. With her grades if she takes the ACT a score of 30-33 may suffice but contact the coach for specifics. If she does well on the SAT II that should help as well. Has she considered Georgetown? Her times should fit in well there. As for D3 consider Emory- great program, great coach and great academics. Davidson may be worth a look as well. In the next few months her times should continue to improve and if she can improve her ACT/SAT test scores a little then HYP could be possible.</p>
<p>Just a reality check for the Ivies . . . while the swimming will help, the Ivies routinely reject the vast majority of students with stats similar to your daughter’s, which is why she and you need to know that the Ivies are a stretch for almost everyone who applies.</p>
<p>Most of us pay attention to the accepted students’ stats as a way of judging what the chances are. Looking at the rejected students’ stats offers a fuller picture.</p>
<p>That said: Go For It . . and Love Thy Safeties.</p>
<p>==================
Here’s Brown’s rejection stats:</p>
<p>90% of students who were in the top 10% of their class
93% with an SAT CR of 650-690
90% with an SAT CR of 700-740
93% with an SAT Math of 650-690
81% of Valedictorians
86% of Salutatorians
72% of those with a perfect 36 on the ACT</p>
<p>My D was hung ho for Ivy D1 until on a whim she went on a recruiting weekend at Williams. She cam back from the weekend and said that instead of a university and D1 swimming she wanted D3 and LAC-- she has been recruited by Williams (ACT 34 50fr 23.90, 100br 106.36 100 fr 52.19) and she, who had been wondering if she was burning out has a whole new lease on swimming life-- she can’t want to get to Williams and swim with the team.</p>
<p>The reason for the story is that what kids “think” in the abstract becomes quite different once they visit and experience – then their “gut” takes over. </p>
<p>Her stats maybe good enough for the Ivy also rans (Cornell, Dartmouth +/- Brown) but not for either the powerhouses (Harvard and Princeton) or the up and coming (Columbia, Yale and Penn). Does she want to join a team that realistically has no shot over winning a conference title and will most likely lose most of their dual meets? If that doesn’t matter, then look at the also-rans.</p>
<p>The other academically powerful D1 schools (i.e. Duke, Michigan, NW, Virginia, Stanford, Cal, UCLA) she doesn’t have the times to get a coach’s attention. She might be able to walk on to a couple of those programs but her admission would not be aided by the swim coaches.</p>
<p>I really would try to get her to “just have a look” at some D3–if she doesn’t want LAC, there is WUSL and Emory as well as --although her academics might be an issue, UChi. </p>
<p>Although I can’t stand them, it may make sense to buy a hour or two from one of these recruiting services just to give her the “facts of life” from someone who is not a parent but an outside observer. Sometimes that objective assessment is enough to jolt her to widen her orbit of choices.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the advice! My D’s coach and I have tried to convince her to look at D3 and smaller D1 schools but right now she is reaching for her dream situation. I think she is hung up on D1 because 1) her brother swims for a top 20 D1 program and loves it and 2) in her mind the D1 schools have more school spirit (fun football games, etc) and support their student athletes more. If things don’t start going her way in the next few months, she will have to change her parameters.</p>
<p>She just took her SAT for the second time yesterday - hoping for 700s across the board. She did try the ACT in Dec. scored a comp. 31? I think. She doesn’t like the ACT and actually prefers the SAT!</p>
<p>Coaches from 2 of the Ivies and the coach from one of the Big East schools we’re visiting in a couple of weeks have emailed her a few times. I assume that means they are somewhat interested in her? I think if her times come back down by this summer she will be all right - if not… don’t know if they’ll look back at where she was before last year’s illness.</p>
<p>I’m new to these threads…what is an LAC? And I agree totally about what kids “think” and then the reality of what they "feel"once they’re on a campus. Part of the reason we’re doing this trip is to possibly cross these schools off her list. (While also hoping one may be a “fit” both academically and athletically.</p>
<p>LAC = liberal arts college … like most of the NESCAC schools (Williams, Amberst, etc)</p>
<p>You would think that they would look back but our experience (my D had mono staring in November of her junior year) is that while they say they do-- they don’t. I had a most frosting conversation with the coach of a major D1 school who asked what happened to her times as a junior-- I mentioned the mono-- she said–“oh that makes sense…” then a minute later asked “what happened to her times in her junior year?” As you would suspect we begged our leave immediately after that. Some Ivies and the NESCAC schools “got it” but if our experience with other D1s is at all typical, most of them are thicker than a bulkhead.</p>
<p>BTW, at Williams over 50% of the student body are varsity or jv jocks and there is lots of enthusiasm for their classmate’s games/matches. I am sure this is the same at a variety of D3s…My D’s close friend went to Kenyon where being a member of the swim team is among the highest social status things that a student can do…</p>
<p>My daughter’s times and academics are very similiar to your daughter she did have jr nat cut for backstroke. All of the schools mentioned are good starts. William and Mary is one you could also add along with George Washington and James Madison for D1. I would also say that my daughter also only wanted d1. I asked her to visit a d3 and give it a chance. She wanted to hate it but she loved the team, the coach and the school. Suddenly all of the d3 negatives became positive. I did tell her that she can change her class, she can change her roommate, she can change her major but she will be swimming with the same team for 4 years so she needs to be sure that the team/coach is a good fit. I would also suggest you look at how the swimmers progress. There are some teams that seem to recruit well but the swimmers don’t get any better. There are also some teams that nearly everyone is going best times year after year.</p>
<p>My daughter had almost the same scores - but with a 750 on the writing, that was the only difference. Her ACT was a 32. The ivies showed very little interest, and she was 1:52, 5:05 and 10:33, with a 53 in the 100. She was talking to Penn, but I think they wouldn’t have helped her through much if at all and realistically her times weren’t that competitive for ivy. Also, everyone is getting so much more competitive.</p>
<p>I would not expect a coach to recruit based on freshman year times that have not been repeated in two years. Hopefully she will pull it off this year at the end of the season. You can’t really predict interest; the competition is so intense. My daughter’s best year was her junior year and those were the times that got her recruited. Luckily she signed early because she didn’t have a great senior year - it can be very distracting, going on all those recruiting weekends, and she also had an illness keep her out of the pool for a few weeks during February/March - not a good time! She chose a D1 with only a womens program…not one of her favorite things about the program but she loves the school and the girls get gender-specific attention, which she wasn’t used to, and she is doing well as a result. It’s too bad your daughter rules those schools out. There are quite a few good ones.</p>
<p>I think the Patriot League schools are a good fit as well, if she wants D1 and she could probably get into many without the coach’s support. Also the D3 LACs, as many have said, and then don’t discount schools like Georgetown and Johns Hopkins either. What does she want to study in school, and what sort of campus is she looking for?</p>
<p>Good luck with the new SAT scores as well as with her times.</p>
<p>31 on the ACT is the bar…with writing…</p>
<p>Re post #16, I would not recommend George Washington for an athlete wanting school spirit for sports, maybe for basketball, but not other sports.</p>
<p>And James Madison? Really?</p>
<p>Kenyon swimming powerhouse, also Dennison…</p>