<p>binx…could you explain your statement? You have the unique perspective of coming at this from the angle of both a teacher and a parent of a musician. As a parent only, I’d love clarification - especially of the stringing one teacher along part. I understand if it means that a teacher should not actively recruit another teacher’s student:</p>
<p>Here, the music teachers’ associations are very clear that a teacher may NOT take a student who is currently studying with someone else. (Similar practice to what real estate agents do around here.) So there isn’t any sense of stringing one teacher along while you shop for another. </p>
<p>Hmm, I’ve not been wording things very well recently on my postings. I’m thinking maybe I’ve been here too long… I’ll try again. Better yet, I’ll just copy from the teachers’ association website:</p>
<p>COMMITMENT TO COLLEAGUES The teacher shall maintain a professional attitude and shall act with integrity in regard to colleagues in the profession.</p>
<p>•The teacher shall respect the reputation of colleagues and shall refrain from making false or malicious statements about colleagues.
•The teacher shall refrain from disclosing sensitive information about colleagues obtained in the course of professional service unless disclosure serves a compelling professional purpose or is required by law.
•The teacher shall respect the integrity of other teachers’ studios and shall not actively recruit students from another studio.
•The teacher shall participate in the student’s change of teachers with as much communication as possible between parties, while being sensitive to the privacy rights of the student and families.</p>
<p>Notice that this code is not just for the teacher that the student is leaving, but for the new teacher as well. Therefore, teachers will not talk to potential students if the student’s current teacher is not aware that he is considering switching.</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification binx - I’m sure it was my inexperience, not your wording! That’s what I assumed and it’s a great commitment to have.</p>
<p>binx: “Therefore, teachers will not talk to potential students if the student’s current teacher is not aware that he is considering switching.”</p>
<p>This seems very admirable, but also a very awkward situation. </p>
<p>I agree there is need for tact and respect, but the above constraint somehow implies that the teacher “owns” the student. There must be a better way. I don’t think I could have told our previous teacher that we were thinking of switching. She would have been just as upset.</p>
<p>That is the way it must be done if a teacher change is requested in college. I would imagine all schools have this rule and if a student approaches a new teacher before talking to the current one, the student will likely be told to follow proper protocol.</p>
<p>Clrn8mom - if it helps, this is also part of the code, under Commitment to Students:</p>
<p>•The teacher shall respect the student’s right to obtain instruction from the teacher of his/her choice.</p>
<p>So the teachers we are working with are not “allowed” to “own” a student. It sounds to me like your first teacher did not understand this. It works really well if all the teachers are members of similar organizations, so they all know the ground rules. Switching teachers happens often, so experienced teachers really should know how to deal with it. Word gets around quickly within the organization if a teacher acts improperly.</p>
<p>Cartera is right about college – furthermore, if you want to transfer colleges, the teacher at the school you are leaving usually has to give permission. That always seems awkward to me, too. But it is a great lesson in tact and not burning bridges.</p>
<p>I switched piano teachers about 5 years ago (right before 8th grade), because my former teacher did not really develop my technique. My new teacher (soon to be old because I am heading off to college) stressed technique, but only to increase musicality. It was the best switch I ever made, fortunately I was able to maintain a relationship with my former teacher by taking composition lessons from her. My playing is improved exponentially since then. </p>
<p>I think changing to a better fit teacher and possibly risk the friendship than to not change. I much perfer musicality over technical precision. I want someone that can communicate to me while playing, not just play all the right notes at the right time. I think it was good that you switched teachers, because it sounds like your daughter has improved a lot.</p>
<p>resurrecting this older thread to see if maybe anyone has specific advice (or a link to somewhere else on here.)</p>
<p>DS, a rising sophomore, has had the same tbone teacher for two years, before that 2 years of guided practice with the top senior players at our HS, who have gone on to Julliard and Eastman respectively. His current teacher is music dept. staff within our district, a music ed. major (4-5 years out of school) and a phenomenal jazz musician. This has worked pretty well as DS is right on track within our very competitive program and has had a great relationship with the teacher, but as DS is at the top of his peer group, can get away without a lot of effort and still perform well. We both (DS and I) feel that it is time for him to move on to a more focused, longer and more demanding lesson.
We have an appt. for a sample lesson with the teacher who has worked with our top students, has very impressive professional symphony experience, has taught trombone profs. who are now heading up university depts. etc., and who we were originally exposed to as a judge at a district competition. Assuming the fit is great I can’t see us not changing to him.</p>
<p>So the real questions - how do you “break up” with the current teacher? We will have a long term future relationship with him within the district program, and personally I couldn’t like him more, so we would both be so upset if this turns out to be some big thing. DS is his highest level student, he’ll have no problems picking up people at the same level DS was when he started with him, but still - where do we even start?
Should we tell him this week that we have a sample lesson with this other teacher next week? Do teachers understand/expect that students will change it up every few years? Do I have my son tell him or should I? It goes without saying that new teacher has years of experience over existing teacher - so do we really go without saying that?
Guess the main thing here is trying to avoid hurting this teacher’s feelings. He really is the greatest guy, enthusiasm like none other, great with kids - just not what DS needs to explore the next level.
Help!! :)</p>
<p>AL34, just so you know, the poster who originally started this thread and changed teachers had the student in question receive some nice acceptances at top programs, which would suggest that change was for the better ;)</p>
<p>This is totally my own opinion and is not especially informed but if your music director is of the same personality type as my son’s was in HS, a candid discussion between you, DS and teacher would probably go well if it went along the lines of “So incredibly grateful for all you’ve done and will continue to do in mentoring DS; want to expose DS to XXX as well to focus on conservatory admissions and explore new territory, with your blessing – this way he’d have access to each…”
I know our HS director was the type who would only ever encourage a high-level talent to seek experience with other high-level instructors.</p>
<p>In our state, teachers at public schools are no longer allowed to give lessons outside of school to students whom they teach in school. This is a recent change, and a good one.</p>
<p>When our daughter left lessons with her school music teacher, he was quite angry, and took it out on her at school. It was horrible.</p>
<p>Also, the school music teacher discouraged kids from taking lessons or classes in any conservatories in a nearby city, presumably for money reasons (he would lose students), emotional reasons (his attachment to the best students) and pride (the best students brought him praise and prestige in the community).</p>
<p>Thank heavens she changed though. The new teacher said she had been taught to “canoe without a paddle,” and she needed to unlearn some bad habits. In the end, she was accepted in some top conservatories and colleges.</p>
<p>p.s. when she won an award with the state music teachers org., we invited the teacher to come and he certainly took credit during the ceremony: this helped smooth things out a bit; it was a good experience for my child in taking the high road and achieving some peace, without sacrificing one’s own needs or goals…</p>
<p>My son has had three different trumpet teachers, never had any issues with any of them.</p>
<p>Basically, he would stop taking lessons during marching band seasons due to schedule conflicts, and then after marching band season he started taking lessons from someone else. I think since his reason for stopping lessons wasn’t to take lessons from another teacher, it kept anyone from getting their feelings hurt.</p>
<p>There was actually no particular reason that he didn’t always go back to the same teachers, we just always had someone else recommended to us. All three of the teachers were great, and I believe that my son is a better musician because he took lessons from several different people.</p>
<p>He has also taken piano and trumpet lessons for the past couple of years, the piano lessons taught at one college, the trumpet lessons taught at another. There was never an issue with either teacher with him taking lessons on more than one instrument. </p>
<p>Now as far as his first piano teacher, he stopped taking lessons after a month because he didn’t find her very helpful. A few months later he started taking piano lessons at a college (a side thing with a professor), but he has found the professor at the college to be wonderful. At his last (and only) piano receital, the professor introduced the person that will be replacing him as he is returning to grad school to work on his doctorate. My son performed at a much higher level than any of the other students so lots of people approached us at the after-reception - one of them asked if my son will be continuing to take lessons from the new instructor, I told them “no, my son is graduating from high school and is taking the old instructor with him to college” (they will both be attending the same college).</p>
<p>My advice would be that if you are running out of gas, so to speak, with the present teacher that unless they are some sort of egomaniac, they will more then understand. I would do the sample lesson with the prospective new teacher before saying anything, and then if that seems like it is going to work out, have a talk with the current teacher and explain the situation. Make it as positive as it sounds, tell him that you appreciate all the work and effort and enthusiasm that he has bestowed on your S and that he looks forward to maintaining a relationship even as he shifts to the new teacher. </p>
<p>To be honest, this was never an issue, when it came time to switch my child’s teachers seemed to know when they had reached their limits and actively supported the move. There are bad teachers out there, of course, people who for either ego reasons or monetary ones don’t want to let go of a student, but the current teacher doesn’t sound like that. Especially when it comes to a talented student, if they are any good they will realize that the student’s best interest has to be kept in sight at all times. I think if you make this a positive, saying that the teacher really helped your S and still has a valuable role as a mentor as he goes down the road, should be okay.</p>
<p>Hi AL34,
We were in your shoes just six weeks ago. HS sophomore DD had the same piano teacher for five plus years. A young guy, with much enthusiasm about all kinds of music and teaching. He is very good with children.
D decided that she wants to be a music major, so all of a sudden we were looking at the teacher quite differently. He had never had a student on this level before. He told us he could get her to college, but her lack of preparation at a couple of recent performances suggested otherwise. It’s not all him, of course, but the combination of his teaching style and my D’s lack of motivation and increasing failure to respond to him.
To be sure D was headed in the right direction, we went to a conservatory-level teacher and asked for an assessment. The verdict: she will get into a music school, but not a great one at this point. His advice was to change teachers, and shop around. He gave us several names. A week later D had a sample lesson with him and didn’t want to shop any further; he was the one.
Now we had to figure out how to switch with a minimum of drama. Of course the old teacher and my D had really bonded over the years. I made the decision to make the break myself, to preserve as much as possible the relationship between my D and him. (I ‘ll be the bad guy!) Also, I am the paying customer, not D.
We all agonized over how to notify the first teacher and decided to do it two weeks in advance of leaving. I sent him an email (saying how much we appreciated what he had done for her) after much deliberation because my idea was this way he could react in the privacy of his home, or call us, or something. In hindsight this may not have been the best way to do it, but I don’t really know how best to do it. I went in to the beginning and end of my D’s next two lessons to be available to talk about it – but aside from appearing very hurt, he did not want to hear about it. Instead he questioned my daughter during the lesson, “What does a conservatory teacher teach that I don’t teach??” Very awkward for my D. I was glad that we hadn’t prolonged the amount of time after the decision that she would take lessons from his. So don’t assume that it’s obvious to all concerned that a higher-level teacher with more experience is better. At the last lesson D gave him a letter that she wrote, and parents gave him a separate letter, again telling him how much we appreciated him.</p>
<p>The result, six weeks later: my D’s practice time has increased exponentially as she really responds to this new teacher. We have been to a recital where my D was not the very last student to play (yay!). D is more happy and more serious about majoring in music. And I think the music selection for her is wiser and more appropriate. She has stayed in touch with the old teacher and we just hope that he will get over his hurt. He really is a good person.
Good luck, let us know how it goes, and realize that there may be no way to do this without making someone unhappy, at least temporarily.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input everyone. DS has a lesson tomorrow so I think I’m just going to be a grownup and tell him prior to class that we are considering a move and have a sample lesson scheduled and take it from there. Wish me luck!</p>
<p>It was a little painful to see this thread come up again! To this day we still look upon our experience as a “messy divorce”. Two years later, I am not sure that I have much more insight. A couple of comments:
I still would never have told the old teacher we were changing until we had definitely found a new teacher. The morals of this were debated in the thread. Use your judgement.</p>
<p>2) I wish teachers would just understand that it is possible for a student to get too comfortable with a teacher. My D needs an element of fear to be motivated. From what I have read on these boards, she is not alone. I think it is reasonable to point out to the old teacher that the student will need to be in the most challenging environment possible not only to help motivate them but also to see if they are cut out for a life in music.
3) Sadly we have not had any contact with D’s old teacher. But we always made sure to give her credit whenever D needed to supply a bio. Whenever I am asked for teacher suggestions I always give her name. </p>
<p>4) The music world is very small. It is good to try not to burn any bridges, no matter how seemingly small.</p>
<p>Please let us know how things turn out for you.</p>
<p>Been thinking about it all night and decided not to mention the change until it is definite. Thinking back to last year, and much and I love this guy, there was the possibility due to budget cuts etc. that he would be leaving the district so we would have had to change then, so I do think he’ll be positive and reasonable about all this.
Oh and just an FYI to clarify, he is an instructor at a different school in our district so while we would see him around a lot he would never be directly in DSs music curriculum.</p>
<p>And not to justify this more, but when we spoke recently about his not applying for the open position at DSs school (a clearly more prestigious placement), he said he decided against it because he is not sure what he’ll be doing in five years. I think he’s considering either returning to school or doing more work professionally. Point is, he would do what he needed to regardless of having to cancel his students, and he should.</p>
<p>And I hear you about the element of fear. While the new guy is well-liked we can start fresh with the expectation of a certain amount of practice daily etc., no sliding by in a lesson if he isn’t prepared. That’s the thing about having the same teacher start with a young kid (15 min. practice a day with Mom in the lessons!) and move into a pre-college student and what that entails. I’ve realized more and more lately, through watching DS studying for finals, how he works in his honors courses etc., that he does better when more is expected of him. Need to (blank) or get off the pot as far as deciding how much he is willing to work to get to his musical goals (whatever they will be!)</p>
<p>Also decided since DS is freaking out about this, though he wants the change, that now is not the time to have him learn about being an adult, I’ll do the dirty work (so to speak.)</p>
<p>CLRN8MOM, we had a similar problem with D3’s teacher when she was in 9th grade. She had been with the teacher since age 6. She had learned a lot from him but should have moved on before she did. Not only were they too “cozy”-- she simply needed a new approach. I had all kinds of people coming up to me telling me she needed to move on, but we were both afraid of his reaction, which is the wrong reason to stay with a teacher, but it happens to a lot of us. We stayed too long, and she ended up playing catch-up throughout the rest of high school. The divorce was messy and acrimonious on his part-- he was really wounded. Over the past 5 years, the relationship has improved a lot (not back to where it was, of course.) She makes a point to invite him to her recitals when she is in town-- mostly, he refuses, but he did come to her high school senior recital. We go out to lunch with him a couple times a year during which he mostly talks about his current students. It’s sad because I know he loved/loves her-- he does love his students (doesn’t have a family, so his students are his “kids”) and this would have been so much easier for both of them, him especially, if it were easier to let go. </p>
<p>I guess the main point is that teachers are human beings and their reactions to losing students runs the gamut of human reactions. I know more than one family who moved, literally moved across the country (or in one case, out of the country) to escape a teacher. I’m not exaggerating. I have 4 kids who studied music pretty seriously. We had several painful separations and several very easy, professional-style separations. I wish I had been wise enough and brave enough during those years when they were younger to follow my instincts when it was clearly time to move on, but for the painful separations we always stayed way too long because we feared the teacher’s inevitable negative, emotional response. And waiting never helped things.</p>
<p>Guess I have been a wuss as far as dealing with this, but DSs former teacher doesn’t teach during the summer so we’ve had no contact and won’t until he emails us in August to try and set up his fall schedule. I think it’s the perfect opportunity to tell him that we tried this (new) teacher for summer lessons and it has really worked out well, good time for a change. He (old teacher) should be getting in some new younger students so I think this will be ok.
And man - the progress DS has made with this new teacher! It may be partly because his braces are now off, the more professional tone of the lesson, 45 min. vs. 30, whatever. This is working out really well. DSs Blue Lake placement was far better than either of us ever expected.</p>
<p>AL34: I would encourage you to be proactive and email the old teacher to let him know that your son will not be studying with him in the fall, rather than waiting until the teacher contacts you. Giving the teacher more advance notice about this shows more respect for the teacher. Most teachers depend on the income and like to be able to plan their studios in advance.</p>
<p>Also, I would not “tell him that we tried this (new) teacher for summer lesson and it has really worked out well.” Certainly leave out the “really worked out well” part since that will just add salt to any potential wound. I think it would be appropriate to mention who your son will be studying with this next year, but I wouldn’t elaborate on how that came about. In the email be certain to thank the teacher for all that he did for your son over the years. </p>
<p>I suspect that you won’t face much negative reaction given that the lesson was just a 30-minute one. It tends to be the long-term students who have had 60 or 90 minute lessons weekly that teachers get very attached to.</p>