Switched teachers. Very Painful.

CLRN8MOM · May 30, 2009, 1:07am

We recently switched Ds clarinet teacher. It turned out to be a very painful experience.

D is a sophomore in HS, teachers top student. After our spring break trip to Mecca universities, I was convinced that D would not be headed there without a change of some type. She had sample lessons there. They were kind and supportive. They said she had talent but needed to practice more, which I already knew. D does a fair amount of resting on her laurels. Mentioned this to teacher a few times, the kid is not practicing enough etc. Teacher did not seem to pay attention to me. Also, this teacher focuses very much on developing technique and embouchure and less on quality of sound. It is a very solid approach but a bit dry. She has had several students get into top universities, but none in music performance.

D says she wants to major in music, but does not appear to be walking the walk enough. I feel that a more intense music experience NOW will hopefully get Ds brain thinking more clearly. We wanted to see if a new teacher could be more inspirational.and/or give her a better sense of reality.

D had some sample lessons with new teacher: loved him. He teaches the technical stuff but recognizes Ds musicality. Very warm and enthusiastic. Realistic and serious but not pushy/aggressive. We signed up. Notified the old teacher, and braced ourselves. It was very bad. She was quite upset. I tried to explain my reasoning best I could in a very respectful way (Its not you, its D.). She tried to argue us out of it. Said she was the best teacher for this age group, could get D into music school. I am sorry it turned out this way as she did bring D a long way in a short time, but the road ahead is rough. Would have liked to keep her as a friend and mentor but looks like we burned a bridge. To add to the awkwardness, the 2 teachers of course know each other very well.

I am hoping we did not make a mistake. After one month, D so far is happy and does not regret the change, although she is sad about the outcome. She IS practicing more.

Appreciate any thoughts/comments/arrows.

Chazmire · May 30, 2009, 1:27am

I’m so sorry you had that experience. It sounds to me like you did the right thing, based on your daughter’s feelings. My son is with the best teacher in our area, and we are delighted with her. But she encourages my son to take lessons with other teachers and professionals, and says she never expects her students to stay with her for their entire pre-college years (though many choose to). She and other top teachers we know feel that it’s beneficial to change teachers for most students as they discover where their strengths and weaknesses lie. I think that is a very healthy approach, and it’s a shame that you all had to go through that experience. But kudos to you for not caving under stressful emotions, and for doing the right thing for your daughter.

srw · May 30, 2009, 1:57am

My son also switched teachers around that time in HS. It was also very difficult and the ramifications were quite broad. In the long run it was definitely the best choice. I have always thought that students become very bonded with their teachers and visa versa. Sometimes I think that teachers want the best students because that will in turn draw other students.

Singersmom07 · May 30, 2009, 8:38am

Early HS is a very common time to change teachers. It is also a good time to make a change to test commitment and level of play. Serious students need to start doing those things that will get them into the programs they want and need that teacher to help them find the right path for them. Friend’s DS stayed with a teacher, loved and talented, whose students only went into state school bands and music ed programs. When their DS tried for music schools with performance major, he was not properly prepared. He had not even been told to consider the summer music intensives as a test and preparation before his senior year.

DD also switched teachers just before sophomore year. Fortunately it was a very friendly move and her former teacher has stayed a good friend and mentor at church. I’m sorry yours was not a good experience, but it does indicate a teacher more concerned about themselves than the student I think.

don9992 · May 30, 2009, 8:45am

My D was in a rut midway through her junior year. Problems that she knew she had were not being addressed and she felt that her lessons were getting repetitive. We all knew something had to change. We got the name of another teacher from a girl we know who was a top qualifier in the district honors chorus.

My D checked her out and was thrilled. We knew we had to make the change, except there was a big complication: her old teacher had just taken the job of choir director at her school.

I was given the job of actually firing the old teacher. She seemed unphased by it at the time, but things got pretty frosty for a while at school for my kid.

A year and a half later, I can honestly say it was one of the best moves she made. Her singing technique grew by leaps and bounds and she wound up being accepted at all 5 conservatories to which she applied with decent money offers from four of them.

As for the old teacher, after my D was elected chorus president and went out of her way to make herself available to help in any way she could, the frost melted and they’re getting along just fine now. I honestly believe that the teacher knows it was the right thing for my kid to do, even if it hurt at the time.

It’s just a natural thing that teacher/student relationships run out of steam. I know it’s tough sometimes, but when you feel in your gut that a change is needed, then you just have to go with that.

thumper1 · May 30, 2009, 8:51am

DS switched teachers after 10th grade, but it was because his teacher relocated to another area. However, he probably would have switched anyway. The reality was that he NEEDED the tough love instruction his last high school teacher provided. Practicing was never an issue with him…and to be honest, it wasn’t the TEACHER’s issue either. BUT in both cases, DS had been told by these teachers that if he was NOT prepared for lessons, THEY were prepared to ask him to leave their studio. He worked.

DD (not the music major) always practiced the least possible. Her biggest issue was that she was a fabulous sight reader and could basically just read the music adequately. Her teacher caught on and started giving her music that was actually TOO HARD…but it did force her to practice.

By the way…there is nothing wrong with working on embouchure and technique if those need work.

It sounds like you made the right change. You need to remember that this is about what your MUSICIAN needs, not what their INSTRUCTOR needs.

spelmom · May 30, 2009, 9:23pm

It was difficult for us as well when S decided to change teachers in the 11th grade. I agreed with his decision as I had been sitting in on his lessons most of the time and they were definitely not progressing as they should. The teacher was well respected and a very nice person, but it simply was not a good fit --his primary saxophone was not the same as my son’s and his style did not seem to work well with my son’s style. We had hoped to maintain a good relationship, however, so S could study with him in the future on one of his doubling instruments. However, the teacher politely told S that he should have spoken up if he felt he was not getting what he needed and that it was his responsiblity to communicate better. S was somewhat crushed by that. I suppose there was some truth in it, but it could not have happened in this case. S had switched saxophones himself and was just beginning to get into jazz–he knew something wasn’t clicking but he didn’t know what, why or how to fix it. He heard another teacher play, decided that was what he was looking for and made the change. It worked out well in the end, but I still regret the loss of the relationship.

CLRN8MOM · May 30, 2009, 11:03pm

Thanks for sharing your experiences. It makes me feel better. This forum has been a life-saver!

Responding to comments:
On numerous occasions it did occur to me that the previous teacher had her own business interests as a priority. Not that I blame her for needing to earn a living. However, I cannot specify exactly but I did not always get a sense of genuine concern from her. For example, I once asked her how one of her previous students was doing. She had no idea. In fact, she had no idea how any of her previous students were doing. That was weird.

And we did make sure the new teacher was just as good on the basic technique. As someone else astutely pointed out on another thread, the needs of a 16 year old are not the same as those of a grad student. This is why we did not seek out a teacher from the local philharmonic, even though it was tempting. The new teacher seems to be doing everything the old teacher was, but expects more. He also treats D more like a young professional colleague, and less like a student. It is very subtle, but it seems to make a big difference. And he gives us the impression that he is just DELIGHTED to be teaching D!
Also, he answers all my emails promptly. Tells us exactly what supplies/music she needs and exactly where to buy them. Previous teacher never did that.

D could have stayed with her old teacher and in the end, probably would have done just as well. But now I feel that she is being NURTURED.

We’ll see how this all unfolds in the next few years. Hopefully the “frost” will melt. And more importantly, hopefully D will someday soon get a clearer picture of her path in life.

Mezzo_sMama · May 31, 2009, 12:17am

I really feel for you, CLRN8MOM. My D began on flute and was extremely talented, but after some time, also wanted to study voice(which she will be majoring in this coming fall). Her flute teacher was the principle chair in an excellent symphony and was used to only teaching the “best” and being obeyed at all costs. When D told her that she was going to also take voice lessons, the troubles began and escalated weekly. She would move D’s lesson time to before her voice lesson, and then not begin the lesson on time or run way over, forcing D to miss her voice time slot,etc. I tried talking to her to explain where D was and what she wanted, but it was a no-go. Teacher became hostile and downright vicious, finally issuing an ultimatum " ‘Her’ or voice lessons". D turned and walked out and even today, if they run into each other, flute teacher will stare right through my D and keep walking. No one is good enough to warrant treating anyone else, especially a youngster, like that. I think you made a very wise move and that your planing will pay off in the end.

Allmusic · May 31, 2009, 6:48am

We also ran into issues with prima donna teachers—one who seemed to believe that she had superior parenting rights (contacted her friends/colleagues at various summer music camps and enrolled him in one, or signed him up for competitions, without ever asking us OR HIM about either of these!) and the next one, probably the best “known” of all of DS’s teachers, who basically told him, at age 13 or 14, that she would not continue teaching him unless he gave up those “silly drums” too (sounds on the lines of MezzoMom’s D’s experience). She was also one who had him prepare extensively (with a number of weeks of two to three lessons) for a concerto competition and at the last minute, would not let him audition. At that point in his career he was probably not going to win (he went on to win two other concerto competitions), and (we believe) she did not want it reflecting badly on HER. I guess her students HAD to win. He had prepared for the audition, and was prepared NOT to win, but the teacher said he wasn’t "ready. Both were “angry” when we left their studios, although both are very cordial now, and one even came to his final senior recital, with big congratulations in tow.

I think that there are teachers who do hold kids back for these reasons, even if they are excellent on technique etc. When we were looking for the next teacher (who ended up being his final one through high school and all college auditions), we assessed personality match as well as technical expertise. He didn’t need another mother, nor someone who would try to control his “career” as a young teenager, before he had a chance to develop his own interests. I wanted someone who would accept him, as he was, and allow him to play both instruments without maligning him. The teacher we chose was not as well known as the one we left (although still affiliated with one of the best local music schools), but he did beautifully with her, and got into all kinds of major conservatories with her guidance and support.

So, sometimes, you just have to listen to your gut and figure that your child’s progress has to take precedent, even if a teacher’s “feelings” are on the line.

musicprnt · June 1, 2009, 12:17pm

This is quite common, and unfortunately some teachers don’t take this kind of change well, they see it either as an insult from what I can tell, as criticism of them or in some cases, they see it as losing a student who potentially could ‘make their name’ (this is especially true at the high levels of teaching, in prestigious programs and the like). Teachers know stories like that of (in the violin world) Dorothy Delay or Ivan Galamian, who had a successful student that helped rocket them to the top (with Delay, her breakthrough was Itzak Perlman), and if they see a kid with talent, there can be the expectation that this kid is the ‘meal ticket’ to becoming a ‘known’ teacher. I would put a red flag on any teacher who says “I am the best person to teach this student”, simply because there is no such thing, teachers have strengths and weaknesses. If they don’t realize their own abilities and claim something like that, you have to wonder about them (especially since I would be suprised if they had only one teacher during their development,I doubt that).

And the teacher does make a difference in terms of how the student responds. Our S used to study with a local teacher, who is a principal chair in a pretty well known orchestra. She was a good teacher but for whatever reasons she never really saw that our S was getting serious about playing the instrument and in many ways she never put the kind of emphasis on things that a serious teacher would never overlook (whether because she didn’t see what was underneath with our son or simply that she didn’t want to teach that way, I don’t know). She was good about him leaving, she realized that having two teachers wouldn’t work and herself said it was time for him to commit, and it wasn’t bitter. She told us all along that she could go so far, and would let us know when the time came, which to me is the sign of a wise teacher.

And even with high level teachers, there comes a time when a switch may be needed. My son has matured with his current teacher and has moved from being a good student to becoming an apprentice musician, dedicated to it (instead of groaning to get him to practice maybe 1/2 hour 3 days a week back in the old days, he is at 4-5 hours a day easily, on top of listening to music, reading scores, etc), and his technical level has improved geometrically and his sound is lightyears from where it was. However, we are wondering if we are coming to a crossroads, there are elements about the way his current teacher works that seem to be doing more harm then good, and when we have talked to the teacher they listen and agree that S’s musicality and such means the approach has to be tailored to that, but then they will go back to methods that might work with other students but don’t work well with him. Not sure at this point what the future holds, but the key point is what works for the student, not what is necessarily best for the teacher.

ABlestMom · June 1, 2009, 3:14pm

If she’s happy with her progress and practicing more you did NOT make a mistake. I’m a firm believer that students grow with exposure to many different teachers over their career. There comes a point that lessons stagnate for many different reasons. My D had a bad break up before entering her sophomore year of high school. I’m VERY non-confrontational and tried to do it as painlessly as possible keeping options open - it was a disaster. But looking back, I realized she should have left this teacher at least a year earlier, unfortunately he did not agree!

Good luck and don’t second guess it!

CLRN8MOM · June 1, 2009, 11:04pm

Thanks again for the support. It is so hard not to worry. I have absolutely no parents in my community that I can discuss this with. You all have been great.

musicprnt · June 1, 2009, 11:36pm

I concur with ablestmom, if she is motivated and happy then you did the right thing. Music teachers are human, they are going to have human frailties and eccentricities (if not more so then the average person, least that is the view in certain quarters:) and it is part of the facts of the music world. What is kind of interesting (and sometimes pathetic IMO) is many of the teachers who cause a ruckus when a student thinks it is time to leave them had many teachers themselves, so they of all people should know better. If you look at the bios of musicians out there who have made it in some way, shape or form,many of them have had more then a few teachers.

In any event, sounds like you did the right thing, and if the ex teacher is miffed, know that is about them,not about you or you aspiring musician:)

violadad · June 2, 2009, 10:44am

CLRN8MOM, these may be a bit late, but I offer them as food for thought and for others down the road. You’ve gotten excellent advice.

rigaudon · June 2, 2009, 12:23pm

In response to the title of this thread, just wanted to say that it also can be “painful” for a long time after switching teachers in the situation in which one begins to recognize various limitations of the previous teacher that may not have been noticed/understood at the time of the switch. How often in this situation do the music student and parents think, “we should have switched teachers a year ago.”

Loyalty, affection and comfort, as well as fear of the unknown and the difficulty of finding a better teacher may keep a student in a less than optimal situation for too long. I think for anyone planning to apply to music programs requiring auditions, it is probably a good idea to start with the new teacher by beginning of junior year of high school if possible. So if anyone has a feeling of doubt or discomfort about how things are going or will go when it is time to prepare for auditions, don’t ignore those feelings. It is unlikely that the teacher is going to suggest that the student move on to work with someone else.

CLRN8MOM · June 2, 2009, 11:20pm

Thanks, violadad for the links. Someone actually sent some of these to me a while back (maybe you?) and I did find them helpful. And rigaudon, you are absolutely correct. It is still feeling painful, and in a year or two, if D gets turned down at her dream schools, we will always wonder “what if…” But that’s life! Now it is up to D to make the most of her new situation!

RedHerring · June 3, 2009, 1:34pm

CLRN8MOM

I have walked in your shoes, and applaud you for the action on behalf of your daughter.

I have been married for 26 years and have no experience with divorce—other than the divorce from D’s teacher a number of years ago. It was one of the most wretched but important personal separations of my life.

We lived in one of the 5 largest metropolitan areas of the country and D studied with the most demanding, and frankly terrific teachers there. This teacher wasn’t for everyone because the bar was always high and rising, but she knew her stuff, and every one of her students played extermely well. I attended every one of D’s lessons, workshops, etc. for 5 years so I was well plugged in to the goings-on in the teacher’s studio. I also knew most of the other students’ parents quite well, and some of them are still dear friends 15 years later. (We all went through a lot together!) I was fortunate to have other parents to talk to when it came time to separate from the teacher.

After a period of 5 years, it was quite clear to me that this super star teacher had just Peter-principled out. She had, in my estimation, few equals and no peers in town when it came to teaching to a certain level. But when the student acheived a certain level of technique and competence, this teacher just couldn’t take them any further, but was unwilling to send them on “because they were too young” or “not ready yet” or whatever the excuse of the week was.

I had nothing but awe and admiration for this teacher.

But when it was painfully clear that she just wasn’t the right teacher for my D anymore, I just applied garden variety analytical skills, and came to the conclusion that it was time to leave her. The teacher had mentioned, over a period of years, the names of 2 teachers who were almost always the “next” teacher for her students. And of course, I had heard the studetns of both of those teachers play on many occasions. One of those teachers taught at the local conservatory but was reputed to be “impossible” to even audition for. I called the potential conservatory teacher, and was quite surprised when he said that he would hear my D the following Tuesday. The protocol for auditioning for a new teacher in that city required that I had to tell the current teacher that we were going for an audition.

The teacher was furious. Really livid. (I knew her well and was not surprised.)

The conservatory teacher agreed to take my D as a student, and also took 2 other students from the “current teacher” simultaneously. (The 3 of us parents agreed that we would coordinate our departure to the extent the conservatory teacher agreed to take us all.)

When I told D’s teacher that we were leaving, she called my every name in the book, and then some. I was quite stunned by her vitriol, but determined that it was best for my D to move on.

D’s teacher saw our departure as a divorce, while I simply saw it as learning, growing, and moving on. This happened 10 years ago, and I still have no regrets; neither does my D.

Trust your teacher-analysis abilities and your parenting skills. It sounds like you’ve done both very well. Good luck to you and your D.

stepup2college · June 3, 2009, 10:36pm

I too sat through this painful experience. No matter how right you were, you never want to rgo back to that moment. Although, in appreciation for the time and patience shown on behalf of the student and teacher, tried a lovely gift for both at their last meeting. Now sometimes student and teacher show up at the same recital or event and believe it or not, their aways wearing their matching lovely gifts.

binx · June 4, 2009, 1:11pm

I am so sorry you’ve had such a difficult experience. We have a fair amount of experience with changing teachers - 3 kids who play two instruments each, plus I am a piano teacher myself. It is never especially pleasant - No matter how you work it, the “left” teacher or “left” student always feels rejected somehow.

Here, the music teachers’ associations are very clear that a teacher may NOT take a student who is currently studying with someone else. (Similar practice to what real estate agents do around here.) So there isn’t any sense of stringing one teacher along while you shop for another.

So our decision to leave one teacher, then, is based only upon our student’s goals and whether the current teacher is meeting them. No comparisons, no egos. In one case, my S2 left one piano teacher because he wanted to work more on composition, and we couldn’t afford two teachers, so he wanted to find a teacher who could handle both. I don’t think his teacher that was being left was especially happy about it. But we have run into him a few times since without problems, and he even came to S2’s senior recital. It was a little scary, leaving him without having a place to go to. But in the end, we found a fabulous teacher, and were very happy with the switch.

We also have been fortunate to have mostly teachers who see the value in having occasional lessons with other teachers. Reading these posts, I am amazed at how few inflated egos we’ve had to deal with.

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Switched teachers. Very Painful.

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