Switching from Engineering to Music (Film Scoring) - Need advice

College Majors Music Major
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<p>ps I am still randomly looking at programs and just found this:
[Electroacoustic</a> Music Composition | Queen’s University School of Music](<a href=“http://www.queensu.ca/music/programs/courses-offered/255]Electroacoustic”>http://www.queensu.ca/music/programs/courses-offered/255)</p>

<p>Not suggesting this particular school (in Ontario) but noticed that no formal composition experience is required, which will be true in some places. Perhaps you should try a class in electroacoustic composition, for starters, even as a non-matriculated student if necessary.</p>

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<p>CompMom this weekend I’m on my iPad, which makes responding to your pm a little tedious and unpredictable in result so I’ll attempt to answer when im back at the office Tuesday, but did have one quick thought that might interest both of you.</p>

<p>For electro acoustic music, Mills College in San Francisco comes to mind. Some of the most foundational artists in this genre came from the collective that started this program, eg Pauline Oliveros etc.</p>

<p>Here’s their intro to give you the flavor:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>And here’s the link: [Mills</a> College :: Music :: MFA in Electronic Music](<a href=“Home - Northeastern University Oakland”>Home - Northeastern University Oakland)</p>

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<p>AIends…I meant a gap year AFTER your degree and only if you need the time to brush up on the theory and writing :)</p>

<p>I don’t know if its viable but suspect you’d enjoy straight composition study with someone like Michael Daugherty at Michigan, given your style.</p>

<p>When you’re referring to entrance exams in Europe, is that the equivalent of the royal academy or EAC accreditation?</p>

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<p>Kmcmom, PM’ing you again but take your time, weeks if necessary, to answer!</p>

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<p>My edit isn’t working, so posting separately.</p>

<p>There are many hidden programs and appreciate the heads up. My daughter had only looked at the composition program online, for Mills:</p>

<p>There are some hidden programs and appreciate the heads up. She had only looked at this at Mills:
[Mills</a> College :: Music :: MA in Composition](<a href=“http://www.mills.edu/academics/graduate/mus/programs/ma_in_composition.php]Mills”>http://www.mills.edu/academics/graduate/mus/programs/ma_in_composition.php)</p>

<p>Potatosoup, if you look at the above link and then the other Mills link that kmcmom posted, you can see that there is more than one way to go, even at one school. These two programs, and MA and an MFA, might help illustrate a couple of options. There are others that are more engineering/math/science based.</p>

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<p>Hey everyone, </p>

<p>@compmom; I took a deeper look at the Electroacoustic programs and I actually liked it. For instance I checked the undergrad degree of electroacoustic music at Berklee and it was interesting that beside the computer/electronic courses (which are close to what I study), there are also core music courses like composition, conduction and etc (electroacoustics being a major of course). What do you personally think: A Master’s degree in Acoustics or an undergrad degree in electroacoustics? I can go to a top school for electroacoustics, do a double major if possible or even go for a Master’s in electroacoustics/even Acoustics after getting my undergrad degree in EA.</p>

<p>@ kmcmom, I really don’t know the equivalents. To be honest France is one of the few countries in the world where there are always problems finding equivalent degrees because of it’s weird-sometimes outdated educational aspects. All I can say is that if someone is going to a school (Ecole) then he has to pass an exam (concour), and usually they study for 3 years or even more (I’m not sure how it works for someone who wants to go there as an exchange student/study a Master’s degree). For example for top sound engineering schools one has to have studied 2 years in a university or in similar establishments, then pass a concour, then you might get in. a “cycle” in France is equivalent to a Master’s degree, which lasts 5 years (2 preparatory + 3 in the school).</p>

<p>You also mentioned Michael Daugherty, I’m going to check out his profile later but why do you particularly recommend him? As far as I know he’s a well known person so how am I going to take private courses with him? Do know that I don’t have a bank :D</p>

<p>Do you think that It’s possible for me to get into an undergrad of electroacoustics at a place like Berklee with some sort of funding? (Scholarship, Assistantship) After all I’m almost certain that I’m going to have a level of math far superior to those coming from musical backgrounds. However, I’ll ask the schools’ admissions too.</p>

<p>Thanks a lot!</p>

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<p>Michael Daugherty is a professor at the University of Michigan - which is how you would study with him.</p>

<p>Why do you want a second undergrad degree - what use will it be to you? I believe some universities will not even allow you to pursue a second bachelors degree - although I have never researched the topic!</p>

<p>My own feeling is you would be better off applying directly to a Masters or PhD music program with electronic/engineering components such as Stanford, UC Berkeley, Brown, Mills, CalArts. However, I’m surmising from the comments from those who have heard your music that your compositions are more conventional - in the ‘movie music’ direction, rather than the more experimental electroacoustic music at those schools mentioned above, or at Engineering Universities like RPI where Pauline Oliveros teaches, or IRCAM. I think that is your main challenge. Berklee, being more oriented towards commercial music, may, indeed be a better fit.</p>

<p>The problem for you to be accepted to a conventional masters program in composition - rather than electroacoustic, is that you do not have the education, the portfolio, the performances, the awards, and the personal references that are all required for admission to a top program. However, these do not need to be acquired in an undergrad institution. You could take that gap year everyone keeps mentioning, after graduation and study privately with a composition professor - learn to read and notate music, get your works performed live by performers on acoustic instruments, enter competitions, attend composition festivals and workshops, and build a network of contacts. It would cost less than attending college in the US - even if you had to hire a Central European orchestra to perform and record your works!</p>

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<p>^indeed, I was referring to accessing Daugherty via program admission. He teaches composition classes available to the music tech kids. Mich is one place where even if your bent is electro acoustic and experimental you will also be exposed to more traditional classical composition approaches that suit the kind of sweeping orchestral type of work I suspect AI prefers. In this case, due to the size of the music department, there is a little more variety.</p>

<p>But there are barriers to access here in terms of background, likely every bit as much a barrier as access to the schools in France, which was why I was asking the question.</p>

<p>There are a couple of sticky wickets to address.
The first is financial. If AI is seeking an undergrad degree in a program, there is not “earned” funding in the equation, and there is a dearth of places that offer much in the way of scholarship to internationals, though it can happen.</p>

<p>That means, AI, a worst case cost of undergrad in the $200,000 - $250,000 range, without any financial aid. As a non resident (or even just out of state) that is what Umich would cost. </p>

<p>So, it is much more desirable to seek a Masters or maybe an MFA or MM – if funding were available. But in this scenario, the problem might be a lack of related UG degree and again the deficit in theory, etc. plus, many of the interdisciplinary style MFAs in either film or intermedia/sound design/scoring are generally unfunded studio style sequences of as many as three years. So cost is again a factor.</p>

<p>AI, you also can’t assume that your math is more advanced than <em>some</em> of the music students who would compete in the music-tech type GA-ships…for example, several of my son’s cohorts on that track from PAT have dual degrees in Engineering that had a most rigorous base of math and programming. To even be allowed as an undergrad to study that sequence, the had to have a minimum ACT score of 28 in math…and in actuality, most had closer to perfect scores on standardized math tests that would put them more in line with the 98th percentile in terms of math capacity.</p>

<p>None of which is to say its impossible. So the best plan at the moment is to cast a wide net to portfolio programs and see what happens. It’s possible the committees could make an admit on the work alone. If not, then a gap year and/or shift of plans makes sense. The process itself may be uniquely instructive.</p>

<p>A good plan b (that in the end, may be more economically viable) might be to simply go to LA, find work as a mechanical engineer for sustenance, seek out credit or non-credit workshops to advance a highly individualized course of musical study, and otherwise make efforts to circulate ones music and publish as much as possible. In a few years time, a program like USC’s grad certificate in film scoring might turn out to be more accessible and less financially daunting. Anything is possible if you have the will to do it :)</p>

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<p>I think I’ve made up my mind:</p>

<p>I will apply for some of the UG degrees in Film Scoring/Composition of some top schools but due to the low chances of being accepted & receiving funds, I’m not really going to count on that. Plus, going for another UG degree isn’t really a good idea as SpiritManager stated.</p>

<p>I think the best thing for me would be to pursue a Master’s/PhD degree in Acoustics/Music Tech. where I have the necessary background and beside that, I will take private courses with top professors/instructors and try to get my pieces played by orchestras.</p>

<p>In the future, if time allows, I might seek a graduate program in composition if I succeed in removing the deficits I have in Theory with the help of a good private teacher.</p>

<p>I’ve found other ways too risky or impractical. </p>

<p>@kmcmom : Trust me, the educational system in the US is better compared to France. Not that there aren’t top international universities and schools in France, but the system in France is outdated and in some cases inflexible.</p>

<p>And I meant that I will have a higher level in Math/Physics compared to those who only studied Music; I wasn’t talking about those who double majored or … :D</p>

<p>After all, as you said I have to wait and see what happens.</p>

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<p>Well, at Harvard, they recommend study in Europe for electroacoustic work!</p>

<p>I like kkmcmom’s last suggestion.</p>

<p>You have plenty of time.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>The only problem I see with KMCMom’s suggestion, which I second, is the problem of getting a green card - harder to get a visa if not enrolled as a student.</p>

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<p>I need to thank all of you for your great support, I will definitely let you know if anything interesting happens!</p>

<p>Cheers,</p>

<p>AIiens</p>

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<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>True about the green card, Spirit, though in this case I predict he’d have a slightly easier time due to his UG qualification as a mechanical engineer…more employers that might be willing to sponsor him compared to if he had a general BA in a low demand profession. </p>

<p>AI, be sure to keep us posted on your progress over the next year or two so we can garner good advice for future posters :slight_smile: Best wishes on your journey!</p>

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<p>@compmom : Thank you!
@kmcmom : Thanks a lot, I will keep this thread up-to-date!</p>