^^^ That’s what they have in North Korea. If you don’t think in a pre-approved way, you get sent to a place where you’re taught “right” thinking.
@simba9 - And you’re calling my analogy a stretch? Ok then… Readers can make their own judgment.
@Creekland, I never said I thought what they were doing was funny or fun for me. I thought what they were doing was rather juvenile, but it’s the same kind of stuff that happened in my fraternity, and nobody got hurt or came out of it warped.
And at what point did I say all young males (or females) defaulted to that type of fun. I do believe that pretty much all young males and females do dumb, but harmless, things. That’s what was being displayed by the frat members.
Then tell me of a place where you see anything close to a utopia where everyone respects, and nobody offends, each other. I don’t think human nature will allow it. Every attempt at that kind of a utopia in the past has been a failure.
@simba9 How do you know nobody got hurt? Do you think all of those who are hurt by such things are open about it - esp to those doing the dumb things? IME, those most likely to be hurt are the silent ones knowing they’d best not speak up or more will happen - very akin to your NK analogy. “Be ok with this or we’ll heap more on.”
Are you aware of how many suicides occur from youngsters who feel they are alone with their thoughts or ostracized from the “in” group because bullies seem to have the vocal majority behind them?
No one gets hurt? Really? Schools (and parents) get to try to help those who ARE hurt all the time often countering parents of the other students who feel it’s all harmless fun and teach their offspring accordingly.
It’s simply NOT RIGHT to portray certain groups or individuals as unworthy or lower class.
So frat boys were caught on camera behaving like, well, frat boys? Is anyone surprised?
Whether it’s racism, hatred, substance abuse, sexual assault, or all manner of degrading rituals, providing a venue and opportunity for young men to freely indulge in their very worst behaviors is main reason why frats exist. Surely this must be obvious to everyone by now.
I watched the whole thing. They weren’t making fun of the other frat for being homophobic. They were making fun of the other frat for having gay sex. Where’s the satire?
@Creekland, you are weaving quite a narrative from a short clip. Again, this kind of stuff has been going on in fraternities forever, and I’m not seeing people committing suicide because they felt bullied by fellow fraternity members. If guys don’t like being in a fraternity, they leave. That happens all the time. And if someone got hurt in this incident, I’m sure it would be public knowledge.
I was in a fraternity, so know what goes on inside them. There’s nothing in the video that concerns me. From what I can tell, your view of fraternities comes from occasional, but always sensationalized and unflattering, stories about them. How is your view any better than someone who stereotypes minorities based on what they see on the news?
Let’s not minimize the treatment throughout history, through all times and countries, of minorities by comparing it to people’s opinions on fraternities. That’s not even in the same ballpark as comparing apples to oranges.
Since fraternities are actively self-selected voluntary membership groups (unlike race/ethnicity, which are generally involuntary membership), it is not an equivalent comparison.
@Creekland wrote on the thread about Randa Jarrar Fresno State professor
" Otherwise, watching someone like her with her antics is somewhat amusing knowing what she thinks about herself and how others view her. "
So it’s amusing to watch a professor dance on someone’s grave, delight in the sadness of someone losing a loved one, using a crisis hotline as a sick joke. A professor who has incited violence against those who disagree with her. Yet stupid immature frat boys deserve maximum penalties and to be ostracized. Both of these issues are wrong.
Per @Creekland
"What’s the goal?
A world where “Everyone is considered equal in value” and “Love your neighbor” are the things we cherish "
Do the Bush’s deserve this same respect. Did this professor consider them “equal in value”
Do these stupid immature frat boys deserve to have their futures ruined or should we maybe work with them to better their lives.
Yet another poor comparison.
A professor who was speaking specifically about one public [political] ndividual and her opinion of that individual. BTW, I haven’t seen anyone say the crisis line aspect should be overlooked.
Compared to a group of young men making numerous insulting and offensive comments about various minority groups.
@mom2twogirls
Not at all a poor comparison. The goal as stated was
"What’s the goal?
A world where “Everyone is considered equal in value” and “Love your neighbor” are the things we cherish "
So, individuals don’t deserve respect, only various minority’s groups.
Search YouTube for (Randa Jarrar In her own words). Watch that video and come tell me how she is any different than this incident. In my opinion it is way worse because she is actually teaching our youth that hatred where the frat boys aren’t teaching anyone.
@ucbalumnus, you’re going to have to explain to me how your comment is relevant.
My point is you’ve got a lot of people who have probably never been inside a fraternity in their life, and thus incorrectly stereotype them as merely partying and drinking clubs for bigoted white “bros” based on occasional, sensationalized news stories. That’s the same kind of lazy thinking that causes people to stereotype minorities and others they have a hard time relating to. It’s like the people who stereotype all liberals in the worst way, while others stereotype all conservatives in the worst way.
I would bet that on average, students who belonged to fraternities end up being more successful and productive members of society than those who weren’t. At least that was always what I heard when I was in one, and several decades later, it seems like it’s true.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/09/joining-a-fraternity-could-boost-your-income-significantly.html
If people are offended by what happens in fraternity houses, I’d strongly recommend they stay away from soldiers, airmen and sailors who are the same age as those in frat houses. They’re 10 times more politically incorrect than college students. I wonder if same people who are calling for the end to fraternities because of the juvenile behavior of a few, would be calling for the end of the military because those serving weren’t quite the chivalrous knights and gentlemen that they had imagined.
Being stupid and immature is a phase everyone goes through. They’ll grow out of it without any assistance.
We are outraged at a frat boys doing something stupid. Louis Farrakhan is the biggest antisemite around. He’s ok (takes pictures with politicians) but the frat boys are the real problem. Got it.
@bhs1978 yes, I know you thought it a valid comparison. I said why I didn’t agree. To continue that discussion would be debating and a violation of this website policy, if I understand correctly.
That said, if we were to fire everyone who speaks disrespectfully about political, public individuals on Twitter… well, I can’t say who else would be fired. But anyone who reads twitter would know there are a lot of very high profile people who would be jobless.
I beg to differ with the idea that this sort of thing is “harmless”. Even if it didn’t go beyond the room, the message to these kids is “It’s okay to think like this. I’m in good company. My friends think the same way I do.” And it reinforces a framework that they then carry out into their adult lives. Not as juvenile or as crass, perhaps, but manifest in actions such as calling the police because some black men are in their shop and haven’t yet bought anything, or shooting black kids armed with cell phones, or moving out because the neighborhood is getting too many people of color, or immigrants, or whatever. Or any of a myriad other less blatant manifestations.
@simba9 You are missing the point by a mile. The only reason fraternities are being brought up is because it happened in a fraternity. If it happened in a dorm room, a club, a locker room, a classroom, whatever, it would still be wrong and the University President would have taken action. You yourself keep bringing up how this is the way members in a fraternity act.
“this kind of stuff has been going on in fraternities forever”
“It was probably just a few members who spent five minutes coming up with what they thought would be a funny way to haze the pledges. Not a whole lot of deep thought goes into these things”
If you want to defend fraternities as a whole because you feel they are being unfairly portrayed, so be it, but you are going a step farther and defending the actions of this particular fraternity and its members, which are despicable. It is not about being PC. It is not about “juvenile” behavior. It is about people standing up to bigotry and bias so that we make keep moving forward as human beings. Past actions need to stay in the past. Most people want everyone to be better than that. They don’t want to live in an the “All in the Family” age. Heck, even Archie Bunker grew as a human being and started to see the errors in his thinking.
If anyone wants to talk about Randa Jarrar (or Louis Farrakhan or anyone else) start a new thread.
I choose to respect ALL individuals and groups and others respect “various minority groups” yet feel it’s ok to disrespect individuals if they are high profile and you disagree with them.
Got it!!