Yes I realize that. I’m just reporting our experience with our school. The parents are very upfront that their hook mattered enormously and the school’s naviance supports that. I suppose it is a win-win. The Ivy gets to report additional URM, the student is full pay and is at least modestly prepared compared to others. I think it is quite common.
Not sure why it would be surprising that schools are happy to have URMs who are full pay. Even if they may only be URMs on paper (or for check the box purposes).
And issue for URMs with respect to diminishing their accomplishments if that if a school admits who otherwise would not be accepted without the box check, there will be a tendency to think that everyone who checked the box wouldn’t have otherwise gotten admitted. And that isn’t the case. There are URMs who totally belong there without the benefit box check.
@runswimyoga - the suggestion is that while the schools may know the student had all the benefits of dual PhD or hedge fund parents, they can include the acceptance of that child in their URM stats. I think it’s often used as an excuse by rejected families, but if every other aspect of 2 students was the same…why not favor the kid who can bump your URM total.
I don’t think anyone is arguing about a URM bump in the event of a tie. The URM parents in this case thought it was a substantial advantage. They are educated people sophisticated about the process. It likely was. And No, my kid didn’t apply nor is this said by the rejected students. It’s by the happy accepted students and their families. I don’t fault them for playing the game. I do see all sorts of families are doing DNA analysis now to help discover their heritage.
@EyeVeee gotcha… but go beyond that idea… Its not just about bumping a URM number, its about creating a truly diverse environment. There is also a need at these top schools for URM children of already successful parents (hispanic hedge fund parents say) to allow for a true diverse perspective of that URM group… there is harm in schools only portraying the perspective of URMs coming from lower socio-economic and first gen college representation… I think that is what the universities are also going for…
Kids can be clicky, if you want the 1% to open up their click to a more diverse URM group, then you need to bring URM who are in the 1% representation to the table.
I’m just curious runswimyoga. What makes you think those kids are excluded from the wealthy clique? I haven’t seen any sign of that at all. Particularly in cases where no one knew the kid was even a URM until the admissions process began
Of course, URM is often exaggerated in importance in college admission by outsiders, because it is one of the few easily observable and comparable attributes of an applicant besides stats, from an outsider point of view.
Who are the URMs that don’t belong there?
And how do you know that their URM status had anything to do with their admittance? Perhaps they would have gained admittance without it. Checking the URM box isn’t a golden ticket.
Those who but for the box check, wouldn’t be there. And as a result, are likely to struggle while there.
^^ Do you really think these schools take kids based solely on that?
On an individual basis there is no way to tell, but on the larger scale, the statistics don’t lie. Although when visiting the campuses it seems that the statistics aren’t in line with the mostly Caucasian and Asian students I’m seeing. In fact I’m pretty sure future applicants are going to check the URM box and the my parents never went to college box, and the …box.
@CU123 What’s the context of #331
@roycroftmom My son attends an ivy. He has told me about his firsthand experiences with some of the cliques in social clubs and fraternities at that ivy. He and members of his social justice community (including his professors) feel that URMs at the ivy should not JUST be from lower socioeconomic and educational backgrounds because that leads to a stereotyping/pigeon hole and a lack of true integration.
Some frats/social clubs are based on wealth as the exclusivity factor; many lower middle income kids apply but are not accepted into the frat. Also many URMs of a lower socioeconomic background cant afford the fees associated with the frat/clubs events and the 600$ a night downtowns on weekends and therefore inclusion becomes a function of wealth.
There is a wealthy top frat for example that has only 1 black member, his parents are media conglomerate owners and multi-millionaires… coincidence that they don’t have any lower income black members when many do actually apply if inclusion isnt a function of wealth?
My son’s boyfriend often talks about being the only hispanic in his frat, he grew up 3rd gen in a very wealthy US area and is the son of a Dr and a high ranking CEO… he says his frat is now integrated because of his URM status and he enjoys vocalizing his hispanic perspective to the members. You would never know he is hispanic from looking at him, and I am sure many from his HS didnt realize he was hispanic… yet he checked the hispanic box. Are you saying he is somehow less of a URM bc his parents are well educated, successful and have been in this country for 3 generations?
My point is the school needs URMs to be from varying levels of socio economic backgrounds for true integration of those minorities
Political discussion not really the topic of this thread. But there is an endless list of URs in high end colleges.
Asians, females, rednecks from Appalachia (Hillbilly Elegy is a highly recommended read), poor folks, Republicans, hispanics, Native Americans, etc. etc. etc.
Private colleges are free to come up with whatever preferences they want to, but they don’t have to be based only on race. For myself and for a lot of reasons, I’d prefer to leave race out of it lest we get into AncestryDNA discussion of who exactly constitutes a minority (one drop of blood rule?). I prefer SES and first generation preferences to race. Let Malia Obama rely on her legacy preferences or First Daughter preference rather than a race preference.
But others disagree. University of Texas/Austin went to the Supreme Court to argue for non-economic race-based preferences so it could (their words) enroll more children of successful suburban Dallas black professionals.
No one right answer obviously. But race is not necessarily the only kind of diversity that is fair or important.
No.
And the flip side of that is some people dismiss the significance of URM status because they would prefer not to think it matters.
@Dolemite I am pretty confident that
these kids would not have been accepted to Ivies had they not been URM (despite some of them having
a very tenuous qualification for URM). The pattern here in London is too well established over several years.
Off topic, bit i believe i attended your sons college, @runswimyoga. I think the last thing the college should be doing is helping those students who are already obscenely privileged, but others may disagree. Back to our main discussion. Other takeaways from admissions this year?
While you can check a box for race, gender, and sexual orientation it becomes merely one more component of your application. Its not the end all be all, its another factor that matters along with your gpa, test scores, recommendations, extra circulars, awards, essays, interests, what your parents do/ how educated they are, what international country or part of USA you live in … I think schools have a pretty good picture in the end of what you bring to the class. I think they really do try and create as diverse a class as possible within the academic parameters they choose for their school. The checked box isn’t solely going to get a student in, its what students do outside of the box that counts highly too. I strongly disagree with regards to the thought that ADs are somehow fooled into admitting a student bc they checked a URM box.
I find it interesting that US students applying to international schools has increased this year. I read somewhere that apps to schools in Canada are up by 20% ? I think as tuition costs of US schools increase its going to become more and more of a thing. I know my sons HS Italian teacher was advertising to 8th graders at the orientation night for students to take 4 years of Italian because if they wanted to attend a university in Italy it would be a fraction of the cost of a US university… That was a new sales pitch for me.