taking an ordinary summer job

<p>
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it might help to signal (falsely) lack of privilege

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I disagree. That's not the signal it sends at all. It signals a number of things, one of which is that despite her background, the child is willing to do disagreeable work - work that hasn't been arranged by some adult, to protect the kid so that she's only using her "talents," or keep her in an air-conditioned office, or build a pretty resume for her. Frankly I think that kind of make-work "internship" has a lot more of the artificial about it than any real summer job (though there certainly are exceptions).</p>

<p>I also disagree completely with this:<br>

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You don't prepare people for the real world by creating completely artificial situations. It doesn't teach them the correct lessons.

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<p>There is nothing artificial about a teenager taking a job that may be nothing like the kind of job he or she aspires to pursue as an eventual profession. It's appropriate work for a teenager, for one thing. It might be artificial to suggest that her parents quit their jobs and work in concessions for the summer, but not for an otherwise unemployed, not-terribly-employable high school junior. And again, it might very well be artificial to get her a little bit of light filing work in an office of friendly people who work for her mom or dad, and aren't going to give her a particularly realistic look at a work environment.</p>

<p>Correct lessons? There are numerous very important lessons to be learned from any honest job. Just because this will not really teach a teenager what it is like to do difficult drudgework year after year, to feed a family, does not mean it's not valuable.</p>

<p>What incentives are "screwed up" and what is "unnataural" about a teenager taking a summer job she's been offered?</p>

<p>Take the job. It may not be exciting work, but it's surprising how much even a menial summer job can teach:</p>

<p>-Responsibility
-Punctuality
-Teamwork
-Perseverance
-Getting along with a manager
-Working with different personalities
-Conflict resolution
-Customer service
-Managing your own money (budgeting, saving)
-Income taxes</p>

<p>My eldest worked concessions last summer, and this year she's working at a water park. She knows she has to work to earn her spending money for college, so she's saving about two-thirds of it. The rest she can spend--but it's surprising how much deliberation she gives to that spending when it's <em>her</em> hard-earned money, not a leaf off the parental money tree.</p>

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<p>Oh please....this is not about what will impress college adcoms. It's a summer job for a high school student. Take the job. In my opinion, everyone should work a job of this sort at some time in their lives. Everyone should also wait tables. </p>

<p>This job WILL look good to future employers IF the employee does a good job doing it. Unless you're working in a Nobel Prize winning lab (or something similar), your summer job won't probably matter a lick to the college admissions folks or scholarship folks. IT'S a SUMMER JOB for heaven's sake...not your career.</p>

<p>I say take the job....and volunteer once or twice a week for a few hours if the student is interested in doing both. A 20 hour a week job should leave time for volunteering as well.</p>

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What incentives are "screwed up" and what is "unnataural" about a teenager taking a summer job she's been offered?

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<p>It is unnatural to do menial work for money when you don't need the money. </p>

<p>There is no incentive to do a good job. There is no incentive to make innovation to improve the work place. There is no incentive to make contacts, to learn new things, to succeed in any way. It doesn't teach the value of money because the money is meaningless to the family. It actually teaches the opposite lesson. In most cases like this, the kids use the money they earn as "fun money', so the kids are learning that we work in order to purchase luxuries. </p>

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to protect the kid so that she's only using her "talents"

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<p>The kid is already protected. Pretending the kid isn't protected for 20-hours a week for 3 months doesn't change the reality. It is just pretending. </p>

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it might very well be artificial to get her a little bit of light filing work in an office of friendly people who work for her mom or dad, and aren't going to give her a particularly realistic look at a work environment.

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</p>

<p>But at least the child will learn something useful. </p>

<p>If you want to do menial work and don't need the money, you should find some menial work that wouldn't be done otherwise and do it for free.</p>

<p>ken, the more I read what you're writing, the more I wonder whether you are a child of privilege who never tried, or never could last at, a job you considered "beneath" you or your family. Was the kid who couldn't hack the french fry job you? </p>

<p>If you'd ever actually waited tables or worked concessions or anything like that, you'd probably get that kids are not particularly protected in those workplaces. They meet all kinds of people, and they learn to deal with whatever those people think is appropriate language, behavior, etc. It's their work environment. It's not false or make-believe. </p>

<p>(It is likely to be different than the kinds of things a child of privilege would hear, see, and experience in a nice little office job - especially where the boss either is, or knows, his or her mom/dad.) </p>

<p>No incentive to do a good job, improve the work place, or succeed in any way? That sounds both ignorant of what the experience is like, and astoundingly condescending to me.</p>

<p>Great post Harriet! I think kids should actually earn their own spending money if they can anyway. Our money is not their money and they will value it more highly if they earn it and can spend it how they want.</p>

<p>20 hours a week sounds like the right amout of time for her to get the benefit of the experience working and make some money without cutting into the enriching things also planned for the summer (reading, sports, volunteering).</p>

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Was the kid who couldn't hack the french fry job you?

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<p>First, I am not a liar. </p>

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ken, the more I read what you're writing, the more I wonder whether you are a child of privilege who never tried, or never could last at, a job you considered "beneath" you or your family.

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</p>

<p>The last thread like this degenerated in the same way. I will give you the same reply. My great-grandmother (who I knew well) worked in a sweatshop sewing garments, and my grandmother's (who I knew even better) feet used to hurt so bad after standing up all day selling hosiery in the basement of Gimbal's that all she could do when she got home was lay on the couch.</p>

<p>Curiously, these women accustomed to "hard work" didn't encourage me to engage in such "hard work". Instead, they wanted me to get an education so I wouldn't have to do that kind of work. I'll take their judgment and wisdom over yours any day.</p>

<p>
[quote]
No incentive to do a good job, improve the work place, or succeed in any way? That sounds both ignorant of what the experience is like, and astoundingly condescending to me.

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</p>

<p>Of course you might want to make things easier for yourself, or help out your fellow co-workers, but the main goal is to placate your parents. This is different from a real job, where you work to earn money, gain skills, and get ahead.</p>

<p>Note, I am not telling anyone how to raise their children, what values to hold, or what to do. The OP asked a question and I am giving one well-considered view. </p>

<p>Just to satisfy your curiosity, I never did any menial work, my extra jobs in college involved high-level research skills that in turn got me my first job. When my boss saw my resume and where I had worked, she immediately decided to hire me. It wasn't Jamba Juice. I spent my summers in high school in summer school, furthering my education. My parents, though not wealthy, could afford that, and I took advantage of the opportunity. Maybe I should have been counting change at mcdonalds, but I studied Latin. Such a waste of youth!</p>

<p>Since graduating from college at 21, I have supported myself, and now I support a nice-sized family. Not by menial work, but by using my "talents" which my parents helped me develop. I am grateful to them.</p>

<p>Every time this comes up on CC, I always refer to the following on the Harvard Admissions Website....written by William Fitzsimmons, Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, Harvard College, Marlyn McGrath Lewis, Director of Admissions, Harvard College and Charles Ducey, Adjunct Lecturer in Psychology, Harvard Graduate School of Education....in 2000 and updated in 2006:</p>

<p>"An old-fashioned summer job that provides a contrast to the school year or allows students to meet others of differing backgrounds, ages, and life experiences is often invaluable in providing psychological downtime and a window on future possibilities. Students need ample free time to reflect, to recreate (i.e. to "re-create" themselves without the driving pressure to achieve as an influence), and to gather strength for the school year ahead. "</p>

<p><a href="http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/prospective/applying/time_off/timeoff.html%5DHarvard%5B/url"&gt;http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/prospective/applying/time_off/timeoff.html]Harvard[/url&lt;/a&gt;] College Admissions Office: Prospective Students</p>

<p>If the link doesn't work....try going to the Harvard admissions website, and look at /prospective/applying/time_off/timeoff.html</p>

<p>I'm surprised I haven't seen any replies on this thread who recently worked one of these concession jobs. I've had a summer job at the local waterpark since I was 14, starting by cleaning bathrooms, then in the concession stand for a year, and now my third year as a lifeguard.</p>

<p>I agree with ken about sending a bad message about money, at least for my experience. Now my family is anything but affluent, but because I don't really buy that much, the money isn't that dear to me. About my only significant expenditure is tithing to my church. So in many senses, I am worried about what Ken's talking about. Having a bank account that it, for all intents and purposes to me, bottomless, may come back to bite me next year in college. It does however, get me firmly in the habit of saving 80+% of my paycheck. On the other hand I have coworkers who somehow manage to spend all of their paycheck (my coworkers are generally much more affluent middle-class suburbanites than I am). I imagine for them, the value of money in terms of the labor you put in is clearer. Then again, they apparently have high consumption tastes to begin with, and this clearly isn't helping. I know co-workers who spend their money on very frivolous things. TV's, scooters, game consoles. Then again, many use it for college (these are the people usually most anxious to take extra shifts). So if you do take the job, I'd see to it that your D doesn't spend too much in luxury. </p>

<p>I can't speak to your particular situation, but I know here the issue of nepotism that's being brought up is very much alive in my workplace. A lot of brothers and sisters work there, many the brothers of managers. Even management itself is closely tied, for a while we had 8 managers, and 5 last names. </p>

<p>I have to question those of you saying these jobs aren't sheltered. I mean, I know my experience is limited (it is a waterpark, and hence mostly a place for families, but of course, all manner of people come in. I imagine whatever concession stand your D works at won't be much different), but Harriet's talk of having to deal with crude language and manners has never really come in my experience. Sitting inside an air-conditioned glass box doesn't really expose you to people swearing like sailors, and people were never as difficult as I imagine people in retail or waiting tables deal with. And honestly, I imagine that is also pretty tame.</p>

<p>Where I work, with everyone a teenager in high school or college, and even our management only a few years out of undergrad (many still in grad school), there is no real sense of this being actual work, instead it's acknowledged as a summer job and little more. I imagine this is what 75% of regular summer job environments are like. So don't be so quick to take this as an introduction to the working world. (In fact, in some senses this has been downright harmful. One of our managers simply refused to believe a girl when she said her brother had turned 21 without drinking. They also talk about how another manager took steroids. After the fourth of July management told us there was Tylenol in the guard room, drink plenty of water, and don't be afraid to tell us if you're getting tired, we don't want you passing out on the guard stand.)</p>

<p>Again, I can only speak to my own experiences, although I imagine they're a lot like most other summer jobs, especially the concession stand your D is asking about. </p>

<p>I would still encourage her to take the job though. There is still a good deal to be learned from listening to managers, finding subs, responding to criticism, dealing with coworkers, listening to managers, etc. I just don't think it's this real-world, in-the-trenches type stuff some are making it out to be. In fact, she really should do both. If she's like the typical CC'er, I imagine she already puts in 80+ hour school weeks. Finding time to both work and volunteer for 20 hours a piece should be like a vacation.</p>

<p>oh, and as far as admissions goes, I know when I wrote an essay about my work experience, it seemed to go well. Georgetown sends out "personalized" letters (i.e. one of many possible form letters) to admitted EA applicants, talking about how you do X (badminton/debate/work/etc.), and Georgetown has opportunities in X. They sent out a couple of these, and one was about my work experience, where they talked about how they recognize the challenges of balancing working and school (and this is how you know it was a form letter, as my job is in the summers), but it certainly did allude to that signal of a lack of privilege ken mentioned. (Even though in my case, despite our lack of wealth, my income isn't used in the family budget, and isn't really necessary.) So yeah, it definitely could work to your advantage, especially considering how commonplace volunteering is nowadays. (I also interwove some mentions of how those jobs showed me how to work with others, communicate with customers, move up to totem pole, etc. of course)</p>

<p>I don't see the downside to the summer job. It's only 20 hours and a wonderful way to meet different kids, listen and follow adults who aren't your parents or teachers and get away from MTV for a few hours.</p>

<p>"If all she gets out of a tedious, brain-numbing summer of Slushies is to always thank people in the retail environment, she'll be a better person for it. "</p>

<p>I agreed with all of your post except the above. There is much for a person to learn from a job, any job. The slushies job would teach her about organizational skills, running a business, satisfying customers, how people make choices, as well as a variety of other things if she is alert enough to learn those things.</p>

<p>It's also far easier to learn such things on a job than in volunteer work. Since typically the volunteer work that teens (and adults) do is things that are optional, the teens often are not held accountable for mistakes or underperformance. Even if they don't show up or if they sit in the corner and talk to friends on their cell phones, they get volunteer credit. That's not what happens in the work world.</p>

<p>I think Ken's posts demonstrate very well why taking the job is an excellent idea!</p>

<p>I discussed this thread with H last night when we were out at dinner. Yes, I know.... Our solution is volunteer this summer and all summers while in high school, hopefully at the same place. Work the summer after you graduate. We don't see how a summer job will add to her application, unless it is extremely relevant to the area she want to study.</p>

<p>Um, what does you daughter want to do. Surely she could still do volunteer work and have a job (if she wanted it). Are you going to make her volunteer 40 hours a week the entire summer. Does she want to do that?</p>

<p>As a small business owner, I can assure Ken and others that we <em>always</em> look at who worked in high school and college. Our business is one that a lot of young people tend to romanticize and I want to know that they intend to work, not moon about.</p>

<p>The work ethic of high school and college kids can be truly appalling. Harriet, lunitari and Northstarmom make excellent points. Kids learn to multitask (other than IMing, listening to music and researching papers simultaneously), manage time, maintain excellent attention to detail despite time pressures, adjust their work flow to the needs of customers and put out the occasional metaphoric fire. </p>

<p>My siblings and I did not have to work, but we all did. Our parents had clear expectations about how much would be saved and what portion of our income could be spent. My mother was determined that no one would leave her house without knowing how to do laundry, cook and manage money. We all had checking accounts and handled all incidental expenses ourselves after age 13.</p>

<p>There is a huge benefit to young people who work food service and retail jobs in learning how to communicate effectively and well with all sorts of people. Stuff will happen and these experienced problem-solvers always stand out in an applicant pool.</p>

<p>My daughter will not be working for us this summer. We have never hired for the summer and she <em>needs</em> to work for someone else. Meeting the expectations of an adult, who is not a parent or teacher, is important preparation for the real world. </p>

<p>The confidence and independence that this engenders is priceless, as is the realization that “I do not want to do this again,” or “I love this.” Sticking something out and doing a good job despite irritating customers, slow line cooks, lazy co-workers or an incompetent supervisor is very worthwhile. The opposite experience, with a great working environment, is also valuable.</p>

<p>While I am a sympathetic to Ken's point re: taking a job that someone else needs, a 20 hrs./week job would likely be filled at this point--unless school ends very late in your area.</p>

<p>"We don't see how a summer job will add to her application, unless it is extremely relevant to the area she want to study."</p>

<p>You don't see how it will differentiate her from the hordes of kids who do "volunteer work?" </p>

<p>The demographic that applies to private, selective schools is EXTREMELY skewed toward students whose parents are in the top 5%-10% income group in the US. Your daughter will be competing with hundreds of thousands of students that look a lot like her with similar school records, achievements and volunteer experiences. </p>

<p>I find it a little bit concerning, and this is not a criticism of you or of anybody here because my own kids are also in this group, that teens from affluent families are increasingly isolated from people who are not affluent and educated. The only context my kids have for poor people is that they helped in the food bank; they don't live or study with anybody who is poor, or even really KNOW anybody distantly who struggles to support themselves or their families. So instead of relating to a less educated or less affluent person as a fellow student or work colleague-in some way an equal--they have only experienced contact with the poor out of a sort of noblesse oblige. </p>

<p>When I was a teen, there was less economic segregation, and I worked side by side with kids from the "wrong side of the tracks" at the local burger joint, and then later worked a summer job at a local hotel with many adults who were supporting families on wages as maids and waitresses. Having that experience was priceless--it taught me all of the things captured in the "why she should take the job" posts as WELL AS teaching me about the dignity and valuable contributions of the millions of invisible working class people in this country.</p>

<p>I do realize that CC is, by its very nature, elitist (and don't slam me for the word, please), but how can there possibly be anything wrong with a teenager taking a summer job?</p>

<p>I'm an executive in HR, and we primarily hire college students for internships or new college grads. While I do look for relevant work experience for new grads, the same is NOT true for interns. EC's become almost irrelevant after HS unless there is a lot of leadership involved, but work experience is never irrelevant. If I have a candidate for an internship who DOES have work experience, whatever it may be, and one who DOESN'T, guess who I'll choose?</p>

<p>My S is a junior also, and could certainly use more volunteer time this summer to round out his applications. I would have preferred to "pay" for an intensive volunteer experience, as we are fortunate to be able to do so. However, he wanted to get a job. What kind of lesson would it have taught him if I had said "No, don't get out in the real world where you have to interview and then show up and work on a regular basis, you have to make your college apps look better?" As other posters have noted, virtually all HS students have volunteer work on their apps, but far less have actual work exposure.</p>

<p>He's working as an usher at a music venue, and will be exposed to all types of people and music that he would not otherwise have been "forced" to listen to for hours. He's having to deal with difficult people, work with others who he doesn't know, report to a supervisor, be pleasant when he doesn't feel it, resolve conflicts, and, well....WORK. Very few people have the luxury of only doing what they love...life is full of having to do things that aren't the best use of our "talents."</p>

<p>He understands he has to provide his own spending money in college, and is saving 75% of his earnings. As another poster mentioned, it's much easier or him to spend MY money than his own!</p>

<p>Just MHO.</p>

<p>Litmus test: a young person who thinks it's okay to take off a day of work because it's her/his birthday (as if that were a national holiday) is still on the upward learning curve of work ethic. The OP didn't mention anything like it; just that this thread caused that thought to form in my head somehow. I'm always amused when I hear that this is why some young person is absent from work! Like I'm supposed to care if it's your birthday??</p>