<p>I don't see why it would make anybody angry that some schools don't expect arts kids to be academic achievers. It would be different if they said NO arts kids are academic achievers. That would tick me off, too, since I was one. Some are. Some aren't. Actually, I've heard some of the better actors around admit to having been very poor academic students. Ralph Fiennes comes to mind. My own experience through an arts h/s was that many really are math/science challenged. That's not to say they're dumb. Just maybe wired differently. Dominant right hemispheric ideation, maybe? Then there are definitely others who are so focused on their art that they tend to let everything else including academics go. Then there are some others who are just highly talented potheads, but they don't count. ;)</p>
<p>I think that whether the academics are a deciding factor definitely varies from school to school. Does a person need to be great at math to be a professional MT performer or actor? Nope. But on this list, it's college we are talking about, and MOST (not all ... most) college programs do, in the end, care about the academic component somewhat, if not a lot. Grades and transcripts don't only speak to a kid's academic accomplishment: they also show trends in commitment, diligence, following through on work assigned and so on. In addition, at places such as Michigan and NYU, the grades DO matter, because both of those excellent programs have a strong academic/liberal arts component. In some cases, a good academic record can also mean merit scholarships and other (for most of us) much needed $$$ to help pay that tuition.
Also, I may be in the minority here, but I would never have allowed my D to devote so much time to MT that her grades suffered. That would have seemed to me a foolhardy approach and bad for my kid. Like so many kids who perform and train for many hours a week, she had to learn to balance the competing demands of high school academics and the demands of her training. I think and trust that the ability to balance and manage her time will be an asset in whatever BFA program she ends up at. (Apologies for ending the sentence with a preposition.) Just my two cents: I recognize that other people may have different feelings and approaches that are equally valid. (By the way, fish, my D is good at math but not great, and looks forward to not having to take much, if any, of it at her BFA program. :))</p>
<p>OK guessing here :), I don't think that mainstage's "growling" was necessarily in anger, but more out of frustration :D. I know for one, that my D's paper was in part triggered by a general assumption amongst some highly academic folks at her school that "artsy people just aren't the smartest" :p.</p>
<p>NMR - my kid loves that she has the opportunity to still be academically challenged in college and yet she is "happy as a clam" that it will not have to involve math, because, as fish alludes to as well, she is one of those kids, who is just not wired that way. On the other hand, she loves science, not sure if that means "her wires are crossed" :D.</p>
<p>MTgrlsmom - you guessed right - thanks. ;-)
Skwidjymom - OOPs - sorry didn't mean to sound upset at you at all - just at the ignorance of what was relayed to the parents. I purposely posted a smiley to show that I was not "angry" rather as MTgrlsmom stated "frustrated." :-)
Best luck to you and all - this process is grueling, and the month of March is the longest, but you WILL look back next year in a more relaxed state of mind returning to CC and (trying to) giving back. ;-)</p>
<p>^ Glad I'm not the only one who gets misinterpreted around here. You put noses on your smilies so I didn't distinguish it from the growl. :) vs. :-) ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
By the way, fish, my D is good at math but not great, and looks forward to not having to take much, if any, of it at her BFA program.
[/quote]
I was pretty good at it at one point. I finished my math with AP Calculus in tenth grade. Can't say I remember too much now. LOL This just has me laughing a little remembering my junior year in h/s when I was trying to help one of the girls in my acting studio with Algebra II. She started crying and threw her notebook at me saying, "You're like all the rest. I always feel like I'm being attacked by Nazi fighter planes when people quiz me on this ****!"</p>
<p>fish, if you ever decide to branch out from acting, I would strongly suggest you consider writing for a living!! :) You (as my 7th grade English teacher would say) "paint great word pictures!"
I frankly think quite a few actors feel that way (as if they are being divebombed by fighter planes) about math. During several of my D's college auditions, parents and kids would all be sitting around beforehand and talk would turn to high school curriculum/what it is going to be like to be in BFA programs, and so on, and inevitably, one kid would say "Ugh, I am really looking forward to NOT having to take a lot of math!" and a chorus of "Me, too!" would rise up. Of course, as someone on another thread said, it's the exception that proves the rule, because I did run across one mom who knows an actor in a BFA program who switched majors to MATH! ;)
However, as a parent, it <em>would</em> comfort me to know that some of the BFA programs at least teach their students about the finances of being a performer (in other words, the $$$ and cents reality of what you guys are about to undertake) as part of their curriculum. <em>That</em> would be math you all can use.</p>
<p>^ LOL Thanks. I actually have an interest in writing sketch comedy although my work is often a little too pointed for public consumption. "If my thought-dreams could be seen ... They'd probably put my head in a guillotine ... " </p>
<p>Just FYI, I couldn't resist giving my friend a call last night. She didn't answer but she's gonna hear dive bomber sounds when she checks her voice mail this morning. :) She's now at Tisch ...</p>
<p>NMR, you read my mind... Fish, seriously (don't you love that word :)), you should consider starting one of those "blogs"; your writing is incredibly entertaining, to the point, and articulate. I was not kidding when I said I love reading your posts :D, always a fresh take on things!</p>
<p>Name your blog "Fresh Fish" or "The Daily Catch"!! :)</p>
<p>Awww thanks. :) I was afraid I'd recently been perceived as that mean old elitist conservatory snob around here to the point that I've really avoided saying much ... even when I wanted to. Gawd ... My blog could seriously get me wearing all kinds of concrete sneakers at the bottoms of rivers if I made it public ...</p>
<p>What if your grades are just mediocre? I’m trying to tranfer and I have a 3.563 and have maintained that the whole time (it’s fluctuated a little between 3.5-3.6, but basically I won’t let myself drop down below a 3.5) But I’m a junior in credit hours (although all my credits won’t transfer, I’ll most likely be a sophomore wherever I go, but I’m ok with that) and I only got a 1740 on the SAT, but that was SO long ago! I know I could do better now, but none of the schools want me to retake the SAT. But I have some extra-curriculars–SGA, Drama Club, volunteer work in my college town, mission trips, a couple different jobs. But do I have a chance to get into a good school? (I’ve already applied to some really prestigious schools, so it’s really too late, but Im still waiting.)</p>
<p>My s had great results with his process but sadly has many friends from his performing arts high school who are extremely talented in voice, dance and acting and were rejected from many programs due to their academics. I would be careful in assuming anything as I have seen and heard that the competition is getting tougher every year with so many talented students that also have academic excellence.</p>
<p>The way that it was explained at a couple of schools was, if the student is able to maintain excellent grades and be involved in shows and private voice and dance,etc., they will already have the organizational skills to handle a demanding college program.</p>
<p>It’s been said before, but having just gone through the process with my D I’ll say it again in my own words. Every school is different and you have to do your homework before auditioning. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Some schools had MT programs that interested my D but the schools required that you be admitted academically first. If the academic standards were substantially higher than my D’s record, we eliminated those programs from consideration.</p></li>
<li><p>Some schools have extremely high academic standards but accept MT students artistically first and then often get them through the academic acceptance. This is true of many conservatory-type programs in a university. My D experienced this firsthand with her acceptance to CMU. D (a solid B student who is average on standardized tests and takes AP English courses but struggles with math & science - sound like an artist?) would not have gotten into CMU on grades and test scores. But she got in because the MT program wanted her and her high school record was good enough to satisfy the admissions committee.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>What D decided was to audition only for programs for which she was an academic fit or programs that focus more on the audition than the high school record. It made no sense to us to even apply to schools that didn’t fit into these categories.</p>
<p>We attended the generic info session for prospective students at Carnegie Mellon, in addition to a session at the theater department the next day. A slide in the regular session power point presentation gave the information that for the BFA admission the audition counted 80% and all the rest (grades, transcript, essay, activities) counted 20%. At Tisch it was 50%-50%. At BoCo we weren’t told quantitatively what the emphasis on talent vs. academics is, but received the strong impression that it was similar to CMU.</p>
<p>There are some schools where the academic admission is a separate process from the artistic admission and at these schools you must meet the academic standards required of all students. If you don’t, it doesn’t matter how you score artistically. The admissions office decides the academic piece and the department decides the artistic. Emerson is an example.</p>
<p>Other schools have a blended process where academics and artistic criteria are considered jointly. You still must be in an acceptable academic range and meet certain artistic standards but it is a blended process which results in the acceptance. Syracuse is an example.</p>
<p>Then you have schools where academics and artistic criteria are equally weighted but the academic piece is different for performing arts students than others; for example, academic students must take SAT IIs but performing arts students need not. NYU is an example.</p>
<p>Finally you have schools where the artistic piece is weighted 80-90% and academics are relaxed for performing arts students compared to other programs. CMU is an example. The artistic piece is weighted 80-90% and you can get away with C’s in some classes and lower SAT scores. Or you have schools where minimal academic criteria must be met and the artistic elements really control. Conservatory programs at arts schools are examples.</p>
<p>These are just examples of the kind of continuum that exists. That is why it is critical to ask detailed questions about the admissions process and criteria at each school. It is only by asking the questions that you can put together a diversified list that contains good matches for a student.</p>
<p>All of that being said, it still makes sense to get the best grades you can because anything that distinguishes you in a positive manner from the student before and after you is an enhancement. In addition, even at schools where academics are not stressed, high academic achievers routinely apply because the artistic program may be what they want or simply because the extremely competitive nature of admissions causes such students to apply to a wide diversity of schools. Also, academic excellence results in higher merit scholarships regardless of the school.</p>
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<p>I actually have a friend with a 2.7 accepted to UCLA’s musical theatre program. His SAT was a 1700-something as well…</p>
<p>I am a Soph. MT major at Illinois welseyan University, which is a top liberal arts school. It was said to be the “harvard of the Midwest” or something like that. I had around a 3.4 after my senior year in high school and although i took the ACT twice and got a 28 as my best score, i sent in a 26 to the school and still got accepted with a talent scholarship and a grant etc. </p>
<p>I truly think it depends on the school. At CCM, it was the opposite. I got accepted academically with a scholarship before i even heard back from the actual conservatory about my MT audition. I got into Syracuse, Millikin, CCPA, etc as well both academically and for MT (i got into other schools as well, these are just some different kinds of schools i got into for a range of examples). So i think it really depends on the school, and the person who is auditioning (Talent, how well rounded, grades, etc)</p>
<p>Hope this helps :-)</p>
<p>As an aside, Washington University in St Louis is the Harvard of the Midwest.<br>
;)</p>
<p>^^^Agree with ttmom, that the most prestigious/selective private universities in the Midwest tend to be WUSTL and Northwestern.</p>