<p>I dont understand how T-recs can be so vital. For students applying to elite schools, they are all (most anyway) of course bright students that their teachers love. I just don't know how anyone can have a "good t-rec" while every student receives rave reviews from the teachers.</p>
<p>For example: I plan to have two very good recomendations from intelligent (and capable of writing well) teachers that are well-balanced in style, one focusing on exceptional intelligence and work ethic, while the other mentioning that but focusing on character and the like. </p>
<p>When thinking about my application, I always considered T-recs to be a strength for me, but the more i think about it, I don't understand how anyone could really have a "bad teacher recomendation". All students of this caliber should be able to receive equally impressive reccomendations, but i don't see how they could be that much better either. </p>
<p>Any thoughts? Maybe I'm looking too far into this and missing the main purpose of the recs, can anyone help me understand?</p>
<p>For students applying to elite schools, they are all capable of having high GPAs/SAT scores/good essays, etc. etc. What makes T-recs different?</p>
<p>Teacher recs are extremely important - if the student cannot find 2 teachers who can write good recommendations then the school will question the student's genuine academic caliber.</p>
<p>It's not necessarily even a matter of a teacher giving a student rave reviews. I think it is safe to say that a majority of students can find two teachers who would write great things about them.
I think it's just another way of establishing diversity. If a teacher mentions that you really were involved in a club or helping people or something, it might add validity to your application. That's just my take on it.</p>
<p>ok thanks randombtech. I still just feel as though the vast majority of applicants would have virtually ZERO trouble finding good recs. </p>
<p>Maybe my viewpoint is skewed because I attended a public school where not too many students apply to top schools, as most go to the flagship state school. But in my experience I felt like could have asked almost any of my previous teachers, and chose according to how well I got to know the teacher and their ability to write (and obviously to an extent how worldly/smart they were). Those that i did choose acted somehwat honored to have been asked and were thrilled at the chance to write my rec.</p>
<p>I assume that would be the case for like 90% of those capable of attending and compsing the applicant pool of an elite school.</p>
<p>Irvine: So basically its just another way of "getting to know the applicant" and confirming that the student is interested in things that the Ec's point towards, or possibly shedding light on more interests?</p>
<p>Well I know plenty of kids that get all As in the hardest classes (extremely hard at my school) but do so by cheating, skipping classes to study, faking sickness, etc, and teachers <em>hate</em> them. Now, compare that to a student that is never absent without a good reason, and still gets decent grades without pulling overnighters and lying to everyone.</p>
<p>It's not hard to get a good teacher rec if you're a decent student and your teachers like you. It is, however, much more difficult to get a truly great rec that speaks to your character and intellect beyond a report on grades and classroom performance.</p>
<p>For me, I know my recs were pretty much the deciding factor in my acceptance to my first choice school. Don't downplay their importance, because nothing can attest to your ability to succeed in college better than a well-written and thoughtful recommendation from someone in a position to know how capable you are, academically.</p>
<p>^
I agree wholeheartedly. The best recs are those from teachers that you maintain a personal relationship with can really give great insights. Plus, it shows that you are likely to do the same with college professors and making the most of what the college has to offer. In my case, my two teachers I have known since ninth grade through clubs, though I didn't actually have them till 10th and 11th grade. however, I still maintain that connection. I'm sure they'll have a lot more things to say about me than a student who just got good grades, yet barely even spoke to them.</p>
<p>PBailey: lol, all i can say is that your school is way different than mine. No one would ever "skip class to study" at my school.</p>
<p>thirdfloor/collegebound: I guess that is true about different recs, I just feel as though if you are applying to HYPSM, lower ivies, Duke, UChi, Northwestern, top publics and the like, your teachers would love you and put an interest in you, allowing you to show how you are crazy smart and a good person, especially through the extensive projects where you get involved beyond the classroom in the advanced classes these students would be taking.</p>
<p>This would make the recs that read something like "Johnny Doe not only continued to suprise me by completing work above the level of any student I have ever taught, but also showed exemplary character through his interaction with assisting classmates, and helping to maintain a positive learning experience in the classroom" pretty much a dime a dozen. I guess there are plenty of students where this is not the case, and I was mistaken. I just figured all top students could get a rec along the lines of that (though not to that extreme of course) from 2 teachers^. Thanks for all the opinions and any more are welcome.</p>
<p>Anyone can get an OK rec, but not many can get a really passionate rec from a teacher. I think they can make a big contribution in differentiating two applicants with similar test scores and grades. </p>
<p>For example, my son is going into his sophomore year at a large HS. He was asked by one of his freshman teachers, in the subject he plans on majoring in, to work on a long term special project with him and one other student. I was so pleased that my son will be able to establish a relationship like this with this teacher. This teacher will be able in 2 years to write a rec that will show he actually knows my son. It will not be a "fill in the blank" type of rec. Maybe I am way off base, but I think this will only help my son. </p>
<p>OTOH, I think a "fill in the blank" type rec doesn't neceesarily hurt, but it won't help.</p>
<p>Teacher recs are a huge issue for my D...she's not the type to develop relationships with other adults...not really even her swim coach who coached her for something like 6 years...so certainly not a teacher that she only had for one class. I'm very worried about teacher recs.</p>
<p>There are also a lot of quiet top students who don't really speak up in class, etc and so their teachers don't really know them as people. This could lead to a very generic or even slightly hurtful rec.
Not all students aiming for HYPSM have a very good connection with two of their teachers, however, there are some lucky ones.
For example, I plan on asking my German teacher for a rec. My senior year will be her fifth year teaching me but I've also been heavily involved in German club and helped out with our German exchange, etc. But on top of that, I'm also very close to my German teacher (as our other students in my class). I've went to go see her perform several times (she's a singer), have met her family and am somewhat quasi-friends with her son and I've even been to her (2nd) wedding.
Now of course I didn't do all that just for the sake of a recommendation (that would just be wrong) but a close relationship with a teacher is really what you want.</p>
<p>It reveals alot of things. First, it demonstrates the student's intellectual attitude. Does he do the work for the grades or for the knowlege? Then, it describes the student's class. It reveals whether he/she works hard, and cares about school, and how difficult the classes are at the school. Also, it reveals alot of characteristics about the student. Examples include: innovative, passionate, focused, dedicated, kind to classmates, social, and more.The teacher doesn't have to be best buds with the student and know the student outside of school. However, still it is hard to write a good rec w/o knowing much about the student.</p>
<p>To sum it all up, it reveals the student's characteristics, and info on the school, and possibly the student's activities.</p>
<p>Teacher recs are a huge issue for my D...she's not the type to develop relationships with other adults...not really even her swim coach who coached her for something like 6 years...so certainly not a teacher that she only had for one class. I'm very worried about teacher recs.>></p>
<p>Don't be. You may pleasantly surprised at how well some of her teachers do know her, just from observing her in class, reading her papers, and seeing her interact with her peers. Teachers tend to be a lot more astute than folks give them credit for.</p>
<p>Yeh, your D should be fine. I thought my recs would be good, but i dont exactly have coffee with my teachers to chat. I just knew that they would be very favorable and have "sung my praises" so to speak in the past at times about being a role model for students and what not. </p>
<p>Im sure the teachers can tell your daugther is a capable and impressive student/applicant. So dont worry about the teacher recs. If she is clearly an elite student and does not go about it in a condescending or deceitful way, it shouldnt be something to worry about.</p>
<p>Thanks to those of you who offered words of encouragement. I spoke to my D about recs this evening and she has 3 teachers in mind who she believes would write good LORs for her. </p>
<p>I think that the purpose of teacher recs is that which GPA/SAT/Rank can show how smart you are, recs can help show what kind of smart you are, and how you manifest that intelligence. </p>
<p>For instance, one kid gets straight As by participating heavily in class; he/she learns by engaging the material in class. Another kid gets straight As not so much by engaging the material in class, but by studying intensely outside of class. Another kid gets straight As by thorough and precise review of homework to compensate for good, but not ideal test scores. Another kid gets straight As by picking up other kids on the way into class, holding them upside down and stealing their homework. All straight A students, all very different kinds of students. The rec can explain what kind of student an applicant is. </p>
<p>Also, a great teacher rec can highlight a real academic strength and substantiate it with evidence. If you're brilliant at history, you might have As in history, english, math, science, and your foreign language. But a teacher rec can show that the A you got in history represents more than just mastery of material, but is evidence of a deeper passion and talent for historical research, analysis of trends, etc., and can substantiate this with an anecdote. For instance, your teacher might say in the rec that when you were reading in the history book about Lincoln, you found an interesting parallel to John Adams which the teacher didn't point out, but rather you noticed yourself (does Lincoln have any interesting parallels to John Adams?) Or perhaps you fell in love with the Populist Party and did extra research on your own, just out of curiosity. That's the sort of stuff that a teacher rec can highlight that I expect an adcom might find very interesting.</p>
<p>So, to sum up: while grades and such may show what level of student you are, recs and other subjective factors help to show what kind of student you are, which could never be revealed by just a GPA.</p>
<p>I agree that they mainly assess your intellectual characteristics, and that's the main point of them. However, don't you think recs also give an idea of the personality of the student as well? Such as kind, compassionate, responsible, focused, social?</p>
<p>It can also describe a little more in-depth on the activities of the student as well. Ex. If you do science olympiads/research, your science teacher can elaborate on your work, and explain those activities.</p>
<p>I personally think in the context of larger schools, teacher recs are rubbish. Teachers very often do not know the Names of their students, let alone know them personally. Its only the really extroverted who will get any attention whatsoever...</p>
<p>Extroverted people are what colleges want. I don't mean people are totally wild and outgoing, but people who are social, have some friends, and able to communicate with others.</p>