There are alternatives to going ahead with this. There are parallels throughout life. My kid is dealing with an ethical situation at work where everyone around them is suggesting the path of least resistance.
One of my kids told me that a senior professor, who may have had some cognitive challenges, told all the grad students to write their own letters of rec and he would sign it. This prof. has a jovial personality. Not one grad student did this but they joked a lot about writing letters saying they were geniuses.
Honestly, I understand the problem of large public schools. My kids went to a public school. But with test optional coached essays and self-composed LORâs, whatâs left? I assume colleges are aware. I appreciate the awkwardness of this for some students as well, as one poster said. So, the parents write it?
I canât say that I have a solution to this problem. Where possible I would suggest asking other teachers for a real LOR. Even if those teachers are not for your subject of choice. If all of those teachers suggest, it then you simply have no choice. However, after admissions, I would suggest that an anonymous letter (or unlinked email) to the district school board and local newspaper would be a nice touch.
There are at least a few schools that require students to adhere to a honor code. I think that by doing this the teacher is already asking students to go against that code (even if you technically havenât agreed to it yet). I know I may take this more seriously then most people. That is mainly because of how important a LOR can be.
If the CS teacher is a dud and the student doesnât connect with them, thatâs going to make for a lackluster recommendation. If the student has great rapport with their history teacher, for example, the history teacher is probably going to be a better recommender.
Spelling errors and lack of writing style are not the issue some people think. If the history teacher rec says, âJimmy is one of the best students of my career. I am super impressd by his abilitie to stimulate conversation around curent topics. He is alwayâs getting his classmates involved with disccusins. He is intelignet and makes my job fell easyâ that is a thousand times better than âJimmy is a fine student who is doing very well in my class.â No AO is going to care about the teacherâs spelling and grammar with a rec such as the first example. OTOH, the second example will do the applicant no favors.
A college can see if a student is doing well in class by looking at the transcript, but they can see personal qualities from a good recommendation. Colleges that highly value personal qualities will almost certainly prefer the history teacherâs rec in this example.
Your studentâs situation is an example of how letters of recommendation can confer substantial advantages or disadvantages to college applicants that are not based on the applicantsâ own achievements and character. If he wants to avoid the dodgy ethical situation with the CS teacher, that still leaves the luck of the draw as to whether the English or Spanish teacher is a good letter of recommendation writer (see How to write good letters of recommendation | MIT Admissions about recommendation quality as seen from a college admission reader point of view).
Meanwhile, the students at high end prep schools have dedicated college counseling staffs who will advise students on the optimal teachers for each student to get letters of recommendation from, all of whom are probably well trained in how to write good letters of recommendation.
Teachers are overburdened. In an effort to be âholistic ,â these schools invented a very complicated and time demanding application process. Private schools are going to be in the position to exploit this, and no doubt it is expected of their staff to oblige the students.
My D had two teachers write hers, but it was a battle to get them done and submitted. She had to advise one teacher how to write the letter, as it is a literally a foreign expectation.
In her schools, next to the grades throughout the year, the teachers write comments about the student. That was a much better indication of the student throughout their âhigh schoolâ years. That is what plays a very large part in secondary education acceptances in our present country.
LORs are like horse racesâŠway too many variables and opportunities to bend the rules.
If you provide teachers with a brag sheet, how is asking them to turn it into full sentences and a letter so different?
Personally, I donât like the idea of asking the student to write the letter â it defeats the purpose of a LOR, including the one that places the student in the context of other students, present and past. And while I understand why a student would try to make a teacherâs job easier by providing a brag sheet, I donât really like that idea much either. If the teacher doesnât know the student well enough to write without one, thatâs not really a LOR.
With that said, I understand the OPâs disappointment.
I am in no way defending this practice, but I can see the teacher side.
Understand that the âdedicated staffsâ and âoptimal teachersâ in a fancy private are only a few people, and they already have an outsized degree of responsibility outside of LORs.
With so many AOs stating how LORs have become so important, the teacher faces a liability issue if the family isnât happy with the LORs. Iâm aware of one private prep school in my area where the school faced liability for the studentâs college admissions outcomes, and this school had a very robust defense according to the articles I read.
I recall the family argued that by publishing the school profile, the school was promising a certain admissions outcome to all graduates of that school. The judge at least in part agreed with this line of reasoning. I remember that because I found it surprising. All schools have school profiles, even public schools.
LORs are never going to be a reliable metric for determining who will succeed at college. I would have been much less descriptive and specific during my days writing LORs had I been concerned that what I wrote could have been subpoenaed in a legal dispute against my employer.
Disagree with the notion that a brag sheet is not proper somehow. Iâm a professor and write lots of letters of recommendation each year. I always ask my students to provide me with a resume (and a draft of a personal statement, if the letter is for grad school). It helps me write a better letter â I donât know everything about them, and having this information helps me contextualize what I do know. Sometimes, it helps me link their outside interests and experience with their performance in my class. So thereâs nothing wrong with asking for a brag sheet. Asking the student to write the letter, though? Thatâs just awful. (I know how overburdened HS teachers are â I used to be one. But writing letters is part of the job.)
I appreciate this, and it does make the requestor think.
In general, when I have been asked for an LOR for an academic application, I usually meet with the person to talk with them about it. Why they are applying, what theyâd like me to highlight, etc. And usually, I DO know the person more than casually. Way back in the dinosaur days, my own professors, both undergrad and grad, did the same. And on more than one occasion offered counsel like âIf this is what you want, Ill support you but I think youâd be happier with xyz.â (I realize as I write this how truly lucky I was to have had some really impressed folks take that kind of interest!)
But I do not work in academia and am not inundated with these requests.
Update: Itâs been a stressful few days from S24 over this situation! He talked to his CS teacher this morning after rehearsing with me several times last night.
He basically said that he felt that the CS teacher was the absolute best person to write the LOR for him. He could provide the teacher with a detailed description of all his accomplishments and experiences in the class and related outside activities and resume. He told the teacher that he appreciated the trust that the teacher placed in him to be honest. However he was planning to sign the FERMA waiver, so he didnât want to see the LOR. He asked if the teacher could write the LOR in his own words using all the provided material as a guide.
The CS teacher was apparently very nice about it and told my son to turn in all the documentation by the end of the week so he can write the LOR before the school ends.
He emailed the Spanish teacher about a LOR, but she replied and said she only does letters for students taking AP Spanish next year. So that is out. He spoke to his English teacher this morning too. She said she was already committed for over 10 letters and gives priority to non-STEM majors. She said if he canât find anyone else she would do it for him, but he should focus on STEM teachers.
Itâs been a very stressful morning for S24 running around trying to figure this out. It might seem trivial to a lot of people, but this stuff can cause a lot of stress for students. He did the absolute best he could and I am proud of him. Hopefully he didnât sabotage himself.
Thank you again for all your comments and opinions.
Thanks for letting us know how the situation has turned out. It does sound like a stressful situation, but your son has handled it well.
My understanding is that by signing the waiver, you are not able to make a request to the university to see the LORs. That would not prevent a teacher who willingly showed you the LOR, though. Am I wrong about this? Is there anything that would cause a student to be in violation of the waiver by seeing their LOR prior to its submission to the university?
I have no idea how FERMA works! I just told him to state it as a reason he felt uneasy about writing his letter. I am sure the poor kid was rambling until the teacher took pity on him.
Waiving rights to see a LOR does not mean that a student couldnât see the LOR if it was offered to them by the writer. It just means that they donât have a right to see it. Thatâs how I understand the waiver language. Maybe a lawyer could chime in here to clarify.
Also, just because a teacher seems annoyed or overburdened, it does NOT mean that they wonât write a good letter of rec that will be helpful.
You are correct. You canât make the request, but a recommender is free to show you the letter anyway. One of my daughterâs teachers provided her with a copy of his letter even though she signed the waiver.
Seems like your studentâs high school has many teachers who engage in recommendation rationing (math: no recommendations for anyone, physics: too unreliable, English: non-STEM majors preferred, Spanish: only for AP Spanish students). Do most students find themselves limited to applying to colleges that do not require recommendations because they are unable to get any?
Interesting question. I just looked at the School Profile. 57% go to Community College. 19% go to CSU. 6% go to UCs and 8% to non-UC 4 year colleges.
Maybe one reason the school seems to under-perform with admissions to UCs is the lack of good LORs. Or maybe kids donât apply to schools that need letters.
The school definitely pushes APs and college readiness, and the guidance counselors have been holding all kinds of seminars on applying to college. But the teachers are swamped, the classes are huge, and the quality of teaching is uneven. There are definitely amazing teachers, but there are also several that just seem too burnt out to care.
You are correct. Students are not allowed to see LOR, even if they request to see their file at college. Thatâs the raison dâetre for signing FERPA, if I am remembering correctly.
Neither UCs nor CSUs use LoRs, except in some occasional cases where UC applicants are later invited to send optional LoRs. Perhaps they realize that requiring LoRs may:
effectively shut out many applicants from applying due to LoR rationing,
introduce more variability not based on the studentâs achievements,
add to the burden of already heavily burdened high school teachers, and
give teachers an incentive to avoid teaching courses that college-bound juniors are likely to take.
33% of your high schoolâs graduates immediately going to 4-year colleges (mostly state schools) seems like an âaverageâ high school (although it may seem unthinkably low quality to some on these forums who may see high schools with 99% going to college with 10-20% going to super-selective privates).
I hadnât realized that UCs donât require LORs. I can certainly understand why they might choose to omit them.
Itâs a decent public school and definitely 90% going to 4 year college and community college is quite good.