@lookingforward UCs view Psych as an academic elective rather than a science. As for APES, it meets the lab science requirement, but they only require 2 years & that would be my third
Here is the wording. And try to understand the ridiculously fierce competition for a spot at UCLA. All those kids knocking themselves out.
“2 years required, 3 years recommended - fundamental knowledge in at least two of these three foundational subjects: biology, chemistry, and physics. Advanced laboratory science courses that have biology, chemistry, or physics as prerequisites and offer substantial new material may be used to fulfill this requirement.”
Bio, chem, physics. Advanced courses with bio, chem, physics as pre-reqs. You asked about your competitive position.
Here’s what the APES course instructors are told:
http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/members/courses/teachers_corner/220009.html
“The course is comparable to a one-semester, introductory college course in environmental science.”
And for Psychology:
http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/members/courses/teachers_corner/227894.html
"How should my school schedule this course?
You can teach this course in a traditional one-semester format, as a yearlong course, or in a block schedule – whichever most benefits learning the material. If your course ends in the fall, schedule a review in the spring so your students are ready for the exam."
And as for the fact that “the AP classes at my school actually finish instruction of all material roughly 2 weeks prior to the start of exams”, that’s true of virtually all schools.
Please consider the possibility that many kids competing with you for the limited spots at UCs will have also attended rigorous public schools and will have taken full advantage of their academic offerings.
You came here looking for advice and mine is that you should take a full academic load. Not all APs, but a full load with no fluff and no TAing. Feel free to disregard my or anyone else’s advice. Good luck!
@sherpa - “Do you think that teaching a single semester college class as a full year HS AP class gives a HS student an accurate view of what college will be like?”
My response below is based on the presumption that sherpa was asking if the student thought *taking * the full year HS AP class gives an accurate view.
In California there are schools which do, and have always, taught AP courses as semester courses, including AP Chem and courses of equivalent standing and rigor.
It is not unusual where it has been in practice. Calling into question the preparedness of a student for what will be encountered at university because he/she has taken such a course makes no sense where such schools have always instructed students under this model.
As said earlier in the thread, a student who has taken 14/15 AP courses may find themselves surprised by what the demands of college are - but that does not make that student incapable of performing well, it just means the student will have to learn how to perform well in that environment.
I agree with needing science but also that 4 AP and 1 H wouldn’t be viewed as a slacker schedule. I don’t think schools will look at TA as a negative as long as it isn’t in place of maxing out in academics. Why Spanish 5-6 rather than science? IMO, Yearbook and TA wouldn’t be seen as protecting your GPA because for most HS, they listed in the activities and awards section of the application.
I agree with @waitingtoexhale in that you should have balance. If you are going to write one of your UC essays about TA and what you’ve learned from the experience then you might be able to make it work for you. You said that you have an outside job. Look at the UC essays and figure out what you are going to write about. If TA is just another line item on your activities section and not the subject of an essay then do it one year and not both.
Also, remember that the only UC that asks for LOR is UCB so don’t count on your teacher explaining how much you did as a TA.
You are likely in for a surprise in college if you think your HS classes are like the pace and rigor of a selective college.
First off, the UC system does not consider any of the AP courses equivalent to a year long college course. Look at the credit chart at http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/exam-credit/ap-credits/ None of the classes receives 12 units, which is what a UC student earns taking a 3-quarter intro series class.
But lets put that aside; assume for the moment they cover the same material. Does that make them the same? Sadly, no. In a year-long college class you will spend 30 weeks and have 90 class hours. In HS you will have about 40 weeks and 200 class hours to cover the same material. Hardly apples to apples.
AP isn’t even DE.
We’re trying to point out what it takes to get into UCLA. (Not any easy issue for any kid.) The safer path can be the one that presents you better on their terms. Not just gpa and any 4 AP.
@lkg4answers – I could take an additional science (making for a total of 4 sciences) instead of Spanish, but since UCs strongly recommend 3 years of FL, I have decided that it is crucial to keep it for a third year. Do you know if there is any way to access the UC essay topics from this year or previous years now that application windows are closed, and without viewing the entire application?
Frankly as you are planning to teach, I would totally keep the Spanish. It is the TA and yearbook that take up 1/3 of your senior year that you need to replace with academics, not spanish. If you want teaching experience, all public high schools will have opportunities to help tutor other students. This is called service and is done in your own time. Great EC and great service. If your school is into rigour, TA for the academic kids won’t be encouraged for 2 years of blocking real classes. .
OP - look into the pre-reqs for the APES course at your school if that is what you know is best for you. At the school I have in mind both Biology and Chemistry are the recommended pre-reqs.
@lookingforward: Was your statement regarding the pre-reqs referring only to required pre-reqs as that which makes one eligible to meet the standard of having taken advanced science courses which keep an applicant in play during review?
Perhaps this would help the OP to be clear on where he/she may stand.
@Waiting2exhale – prereqs for APES at my school are Biology and Chemistry; I did bio my freshman year and am taking chem as a sophomore now.
As for the requirements for colleges, UCs require 2 years of lab sciences and recommend 3. Out of biology, chemistry, and physics, they require 2 of those 3. By taking APES my junior year, I am exceeding the required and meeting the recommended, as it is an approved lab science course. I’m assuming that what @lookingforward is saying relates to the actual wording. If they require 2 of the 3 core sciences, but recommend 3 years of science, it is to be assumed they recommend that third year of science be physics in order to have taken all 3 of the core sciences. And what I’ve seen many say on this thread as well as others I’ve browsed, many people seem to think (possibly @lookingforward, but can’t say for certain, of course) APES isn’t a genuine AP class. In my opinion, if colleges didn’t view the course as a legitimate AP, the college board wouldn’t keep APES as an approved AP class. I don’t intend to major in any STEM field, so I’m iffy about taking physics when APES is the class that really interests me.
Yes, @socalkid1, then we are seeing and understanding the language, and ideas held in consensus the same way.
I’m glad to see you still hanging in here!
APES is genuine. Not generally considered a more rigorous, by its nature. And don’t be fooled that CB approval makes it rigorous, across the board. Also, many kids look at this from their own and their hs perspective. “Mine is rigorous.” But the issue is how a college like UCLA views this- and the monstrous competition for an admit, among kids who’ve done it all.
I like a CYA approach. Not, “Is this pattern good enough, maybe they’ll view it as I do.” But, “How do I maximize my shot, in a crazy competitive scenario?”
Assure us you have happy, affordable safeties.
@socalkid1 you can find the UC personal insight questions here: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/how-to-apply/personal-questions/freshman/
This is point I tried, but clearly failed, to make upthread. I promise I’m not a believer in the “whoever has the most AP’s wins” philosophy, and I’m relating this for illustrative purposes only. I believe I mentioned my daughter’s experience earlier, but my son’s story is probably more informative. He took 7 APs junior year and 7 more senior year, and they were difficult and varied: Spanish Language, Spanish Literature, Art History, Calc BC, Physics, Bio, Chem, both AP English classes, US History, Euro; the list went on and on. He did this as he was competing nationally and internationally in his sport, and still managed to maintain an unweighted 4.0 and graduate as valedictorian.
Still, he told me that the rigor of taking four classes at Princeton far exceeded that of his HS courses. Granted, he took an extremely rigorous course load there, but let this be a warning to anyone who thinks their Honors or AP courses are equivalent to classes at colleges with competitive admissions.
@mikemac’s observation bears repeating: “You are likely in for a surprise in college if you think your HS classes are like the pace and rigor of a selective college.”
I think if you asked any students who are in college if AP is ‘just like college’ you’d get mostly ‘no’ as the answers. In college, teachers aren’t checking your binders, taking attendance (most don’t care if you attend class or not), don’t schedule exams around the homecoming dance or senior prom. The pace is much faster. The professors don’t call your parents if you start slipping in daily work (because there is no daily work).
My kids went to a school in California and there were 7 periods, plus the 0 period. Many students take 8 classes but everyone took 7. These are the students who are also applying to UC’s and CSU’s right beside you. They will have all the A-G requirements too, but have 4 sciences, 4 math, 4 English, and 4 social studies, plus lots of art, music, foreign language.
@twoinanddone I’m definitely aware that college classes and advanced level high school classes are not equal. However, I do know that the APs at my school are run like college courses in a multitude of ways, especially the ones taught by former college professors. Obviously they still differ from college classes in many ways, but the rigor of the advanced courses at my high school ARE top-notch, and CAN be compared to freshman college classes in certain aspects.
As for competition, UCB and UCLA are extremely selective and competitive. Other schools like UCSB and UCSD are more mildly so. But when it comes to other UCs, and most CSUs, I know the competition isn’t nearly as intense. I can get into most CSUs with what I have completed as well as planned out without worrying about those in 4 years of the areas I don’t have 4 years in. There is not a difficult level of competition for most CSU schools
@twoinanddone - The thing is, the OP’s HS is different.
@socalkid1 : UC’s don’t know whether apes is tough or light at your high school. They don’t have time to look into it. They see your high school profile; your school’s schedule has six periods. So you have 24 units. Their expectations will be 4 years of English, 4 years of social science/history, foreign language 5-6 or higher, math through pre-calculus, biology, chem, physics, one art class, one career prep class. That leaves 4 classes you can choose. One can be APES (you can take regular physics or whatever is 'light ’ physics at your school senior year). One can be TA (you can take that senior year to leave time for college apps.) The other two must be academic. Yes, AP human geography, or Photography, or Creative writing, would be better than TA for two years.
If you can, take TA Fall semester senior year, and a semester elective in the spring; choose another academic or elective class (AP Psychology?) junior year.
@sherpa, kids post here out of a variety of motivations. Some come for advice. Others to find a post willing to back them up in what they have already decided to do & believe (eg “confirmation bias”). I think I know what category I’d put the OP.