Tell this clueless Junior what schools are matches for him

Chance Me / Match Me!
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I want to start by saying I have no idea where I stand and which schools are matches for me. Everyone I’ve talked to has told me varying answers. I hope I can finally get a realistic view of what colleges I could get into. Honest reviews and any suggestions on how I can improve are greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Demographics

  • Current Junior
  • US Citizen
  • State: VA (NOVA area)
  • Type of High school: Competitive Northern VA school and I also attend a public magnet STEM school every other day
  • Gender/Race/Ethnicity: Male Asian (Indian)
  • Other special factors: None

Intended Major(s): Planning to either major in business or mechanical engineering, I’m not really too sure what I want to do undergrad but I do know I want to eventually get an MBA. I heard you don’t need a business undergrad to get an MBA, so I thought I might as well get a technical major instead. Plus, I like engineering a lot.

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 4.0
  • Weighted HS GPA: 4.75 (+1 for AP/DE)(+0.5 for Honors), Will most likely improve to 4.8 senior year
  • Class Rank: 2/400+
  • ACT/SAT Scores: Haven’t taken SAT yet, but in the practice tests I’ve taken Im averaging 1530-1570

Coursework:

Taken: AP World, AP CS A, AP Bio, two years of a DE business class at STEM magnet school

Taking: AP Marco/Micro econ, AP Psych, AP Lang, APUSH, AP Calc BC, AP Physics C, Advanced engineering class at magnet school

Next year: AP Stats, AP Chem, AP Gov, AP Lit, Multivar calc DE, engineering class at magnet school, and for my last class Im either going to take APES or Spanish 4 H.

Awards (probably my weakest section along with my ECs)

  • 2nd at states in an FBLA event
  • Went to states for LD debate
  • Won first at a local community service competition
  • idk if this counts but my varsity tennis team got 2nd in regionals last year (we’ll probably make it to states this year)

Hopefully I get more/better awards before I apply.

Extracurriculars
FBLA President since 10th grade - Helped revitalize the club after COVID year when all the officers left. Grew club from 2 members to 50+. Planned and organized meetings, fundraisers, etc. Helped get multiple members to nationals.

Started a non-profit (Co-founder/President) - Started around my 7th grade, non-profit takes unwanted returns of goods and distributes to homeless shelters and other places of need. Donated $25,000+ worth of goods so far. Expanded organization with chapters across the country. Have led and organized lots of volunteers in many events with this non-profit. Organized inventory and managed distribution of returned goods. Have also done some side projects with this non-profit, such as donating to hospitals in India and taking returned unopened bed sheets and turning them into masks during peak covid.

Speech and Debate - Will be captain of LD debate next year. My school is very renowned for debate and has the largest chapter in my county and maybe even region. I’ve been doing debate since 9th grade and I’ve really enjoyed it. I’ve helped my current captain organize and lead meetings.

Varsity tennis since 9th grade - Our team is very competitive and we have a good shot of making states this year.

Co-founder of chess club - Organize and lead around 30+ members in weekly meetings and tournaments.

That’s about all I can think of that’s worth mentioning. I technically shadowed a doctor in a research center in India, but I don’t think that helps me because I don’t want to do med. The only reason I shadowed was because my brother wants to do med, so I just joined him while visiting India last summer. Also observed and helped with a medical research paper in India for the same reason. If I really wanted to I could spin that into saying I’ve published research in India.

I’ve also applied to lots of summer internships, so hopefully I’ll get into one for this summer.

Essays/LORs/Other
I’ve been a strong writer my whole life, so I’m not worried about essays. I also have a lot of resources to help me with essays. My teacher recs on the other hand are probably average and could be the weakest part of my application. I know this so I’m trying to get closer with some of my teachers before the school year ends.

Cost Constraints / Budget
Cost isn’t too much of an issue for me as long as I get some scholarships and financial aid. However, it wouldn’t make sense for me to go out of state unless I get into a super good school (better than UVA).

Schools

I don’t know much about how hard it is to get into schools so this is just wild speculation. I mainly just want to know which schools are matches for me (I would prefer if the school is located in or near a city). Is it realistic for me to aim for a top 20 school?

  • Safety: Vtech, William & Mary, George Mason
  • Likely: UMD, Uwash, UW-Madison, UVA (Only saying UVA here because I heard they automatically accept the top percent of in-state high schools, idk how true this is)
  • Match: Georgia tech, Umich, UNC, UT Austin
  • Reach: Usc, NYU, Emory, UCLA, Cmu, Berkeley
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  1. Budget? always the first question. Don’t say ‘my parents say anything is fine’ unless you are clear that they are willing to spend $80,000/year for your college.

  2. Why, precisely, do you think that your LoRs will be weak? Students sometimes think that friendliness or a strong personal relationship is what makes a good LoR, but a good teacher will have a good idea who you are as a student without that.

  3. I don’t think that UVa or W&M are a safety for any NoVa kid (ok, except maybe from TJ), but given your rank I would say that UVa is very likely. W&M also- but slightly less so, only b/c they look a little harder at fit than UVa does.

  4. You absolutely do not need to be a business major to get into an MBA program. The good programs will want you to have worked for a couple of years, and used those years to clarify exactly what you want from an MBA (it’s how you will choose which MBA would suit your goals best). Fwiw, MBA programs like engineers very much!

  5. Re: engineering: you need to decide if that is your path, and if so you may want to add/drop some schools from your current list. For engineering in-state, Va Tech is a Likely, not a Safety, and is definitely the star compared to UVa (note that W&M doesn’t offer engineering- they have a 3+2 program, where you go to another uni for the engineering). GaTech is a serious reach for engineering. Emory doesn’t offer it. Etc.

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You are an extremely strong applicant - congrats on all your hard work and accomplishments.

I agree with collegemom, the first 2 things you need to do are:

1)decide definitively if you are going to apply for engineering or not - this will significantly affect your college application list.

2)quantify any and all budget constraints including if you have none and you can pick any full pay private you are accepted to ($60,000.00+ tuition and about $20,000.00 for room/board per year so that’s roughly $320,000.00). It sounds like you have a general idea that it is not realistic to go out of state unless it beats your in state options. My parents gave me a similar guideline: Harvard, Princeton, Yale, or a BSMD … if not, then nothing out of state was acceptable from their point of view. I remember I really liked Stanford, but that was not an acceptable option for my parents at the time.

Once you have these 2 pieces of the puzzle in place, informed people on here will be able to help you formulate a great list.

I do think if you just apply arts and sciences instead of engineering, the world is your oyster and you are competitive almost anywhere. If you apply for engineering, the universities become much more competitive and that would place certain high end engineering schools into the far reach category for almost any applicant.

So …. figure out if you want to apply for engineering.

Then … try to pin down your budget a little more specifically, and come up with a list of colleges that “beat” your in state Virginia options. Until you figure out the engineering question, you will have to do this for both scenarios, engineering and arts/sciences/business. You may already understand this: some universities offer a business major and you have to apply directly to the business school while in high school. Some other universities offer a business major but you can’t apply to it or know if you will be accepted to it until you are already on campus as a general studies or arts/sciences student at their university. Still other universities do not offer any specific business major and the closest thing they offer is economics - this is common at many LACs liberal arts colleges.

Trying to formulate a usable list is a fool’s errand in your particular case … until you lock down the engineering and/or the business major question.

Good luck!

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Major-wise, if you know you ultimately want a business career, but want an engineering background, consider industrial/systems engineering, supply chain, or similar major that will give you a STEM/business mix in undergrad. As just one example, here’s the GT version of this major - possibly the top program of its kind: Bachelors | ISyE | Georgia Institute of Technology | Atlanta, GA This field can be a great way to get a highly-marketable ABET-accredited engineering degree that also involves the application of business principles.

It looks a bit like you’re assembling your list by rank. There are so many strong STEM schools that “T20” really isn’t as meaningful as US News would like you to believe. Consider terrific schools like WPI, URochester, CWRU, and Lehigh, all of which have business programs as well as engineering, as well as some programs that combine both
https://ibe.lehigh.edu/
https://www.wpi.edu/academics/study/industrial-engineering-bs
They all give merit aid as well.

Have you looked at Olin? It’s a very small, project-based engineering program; and there are entrepreneurship opportunities like this one that’s offered in collaboration with neighboring Babson https://www.olin.edu/case-studies/affordable-design-and-entrepreneurship-ade All admitted students at Olin get half-tuition merit.

I wonder why you have Emory on your list, which doesn’t have Engineering, but not Rice, which does. (It can’t be an aversion to Texas, since you’ve got UT-Austin on your list…)

VT is a fantastic in-state option, but it is not a safety. There have been several threads about highly-qualified in-state student who did not get into VT. You should get into VT but it’s not a sure thing.

Since you’re looking at CMU, also consider its next door neighbor, Pitt. If you apply right away when the application opens in August, their rolling admissions could put an acceptance in your pocket early on, in addition to maximizing your chances at merit aid. There’s no better safety than an early acceptance!

You’re a very strong candidate; if you apply to a good range of schools, you’ll end up with great options!

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You are an excellent student, congratulations! That said, in today’s college application climate, none of the colleges on your “match” list are matches for an out of state applicant. There will be thousands of students with stats like yours (and better), who also apply to these schools. If you peruse the current threads on CC for accepted students to these schools, you’ll see what the stakes are for OOS applicants. Additionally, if you need scholarships, it will be difficult to get anything substantial from these colleges, as you are competing with many other high level students.

You have excellent in-state options in UVA, VT & W/M, however going for engineering is competitive for all those schools and again, you’ll be competing with other high-level students for those spots. VT and W/M will not be a safeties for you in engineering. Being from NOVA also makes getting into your in-state options more competitive.

I agree that you need to get a solid budget together. You can’t rely only on getting financial aid & scholarships, as that is not an exact science. You can run the NPC calculator for each of the colleges on your list to get an idea of cost.

Finally, you list is very top-heavy. Those applications require significant time to complete, and I wonder whether it will prove to be overwhelming once you sit down and start going through them.

I’m sure you’ll get great advice on here. Props to you for reaching out early!

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The list provided by @aquapt is very solid, given your interests. You may want to take a look at Cooper Union as well. Rose Hulman is another one I’d take a look at.
If you want scholarships and a big college experience then look at Alabama’s STEM path to MBA.

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UT Austin can be removed-very little financial aid for OOS

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Seconding this. There are several publics on this list that offer little to no aid for OOS students… Gtech, any UC, UMich, UT. These will cost $55k - $80k as an OOS student.

But the OP is asking in plenty of time to get some guidance! Good for you! Once you answer the questions asked in previous posts, we can help with refining a list for you to research and discuss with your parents. :grinning:

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Congratulations on a competitive profile. I will only address the California UC’s which you have categorized as Reach schools. The UC’s are test blind, have capped OOS enrollment and offer no need based FA for OOS students and merit aid is in low amounts plus highly competitive. Regents merit scholarship amounts at UCLA are $2000 and $2500 at UCB.

Projected OOS UC costs are now hovering around $72K/year to attend.

Here are the OOS admit rates for 2022:
UCB: 8.6%
UCLA: 8.9%

The UC’s have their own GPA calculations which only includes a-g courses (Core requirements) taken the summer prior to 10th through the summer prior to 12th grades. OOS students only get extra Honors points (weighting) for AP/IB or DE/CC UC transferable courses taken during this time. HS designated Honors classes for OOS applicants are not weighted. At the end of Junior year, calculate your 3 UC GPA’s using the calculator below:

https://rogerhub.com/gpa-calculator-uc/

UCB Freshman profile 2022:

GPA of middle 25%-75% students

UC Capped Weighted GPA: 4.17-4.31
UC Unweighted GPA: 3.86-4.00
UC Fully Weighted GPA: 4.25-4.61

UCLA Freshman profile 2022:

GPA of middle 25%-75% students

UC Capped Weighted GPA: 4.21–4.33
UC Unweighted GPA: 3.95-4.00
UC Fully Weighted GPA: 4.40-4.73

UCLA does not have a Business school for Undergrad but offers Business Econ and Econ as undergraduate majors. If you are also considering Engineering, you need a direct admit into the program to actually pursue this major at the UCLA and UCB. UCLA does not consider alternate majors in their application review but UCB does consider alternate majors as of Fall 2023.

UCB starting Fall 2024, will offer a direct admit into the HAAS Business school but details have not been posted yet and you should assume it will be highly competitive.

Best of luck.

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You need to have a very frank talk with your parents about money, and run the net price calculators on your schools (other than the in-state publics). Can your family easily afford 85K/yr for 4 yrs for college? Would the extra 200K that you would save by going to U Va as opposed to that private T20 that you might get into, not matter one whit to you or your family? You have to realize that you might not win any merit scholarships, that T20 schools mostly don’t award merit money, only fin aid, so you really need to know whether you would qualify for fin aid, and how much your parents have set aside for college already for you.

I’d say that U Va is at the top of your list, you have a very good chance of being accepted there, and it’s most likely to be your best option. If your family would qualify for enough fin aid to make privates affordable (and that’s a big if - cost of living in Northern Va is high, so I would imagine that your family’s household income, in order to live decently there, is probably high enough that you would get little to no fin aid), then I think that you could probably get into many T50-T20 schools. With a carefully crafted application strategy, you MIGHT get into a T20.

Engineering is tough. So many people slog their way through it undergrad, and then wind up not using it at all, wind up going into other fields. Do you really want it? You’re already not planning to go into it, even before you start. If you’re absolutely sure that business is your future, why not major in it undergrad, instead of planning for the MBA? You sound like someone who might not need the MBA at all, might go on to start your own business, and the undergrad degree would give you the background in pretty much everything that the MBA would, so that you’d understand accounting, marketing, etc. enough for running your own business. I’d only plan on an engineering major if you want to go into a business that is engineering-based, so that you’d be able to have some understanding of the technical aspects of the business that you’d be running, or if mechanical engineering is your obsession, and it is what would make you happiest as an undergrad.

Honestly, in your position, unless your parents are so well off financially that the cost of college doesn’t matter at all to them, or so poorly off that you’d qualify for enough fin aid to make a generous private cheaper than UVa, I would only apply to the in-state public safety that you’d be very happy to attend, in the unlikely event that you didn’t get into UVa, and apply to U Va early decision. You’ve clearly worked very hard in school to achieve so much, could certainly benefit from a T20 school. But if you and your family are one of the many who are in that huge “in-between” area, financially, such that the cost of private college is burdensome or out of reach without big fin aid, but you won’t qualify for big fin aid, then you are very lucky to be in-state for such a fine school as U Va.

If you really love mechanical engineering, and don’t want to apply ED to U Va, consider adding RPI to your list. It’s very good for mech E, as engineering goes it is 2nd tier, gives generous merit money that often brings the cost of attendance close to that of your in-state flagship, has been known to then even match your COA at your in-state flagship including the merit you might have been awarded at your in-state flagship, upon appeal. But it’s less of a full experience socially than U Va would be, since it tends to attract a male, engineering-obsessed student body (70:30).

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Congratulations on all of your efforts in high school! It bodes well for continued success in college and in life.

Others have made some key points (particularly about needing to know what your family’s budget is after all grants/scholarships are received). But I don’t have a very good sense of what you’re looking for, apart from being in or near a big city.

How do you feel about the importance of sports? Greek life? Do you prefer to be in an environment where everyone is amazing which pushes you harder, and you’re trying to compete for the best opportunities? Or do you prefer to be among the stronger students and are more likely to have plum opportunities presented to you? Do you do better in smaller classes where it’s hard to hide or do you do better with the anonymity of large classes (i.e. 100s of students)? Are there any particular interests that you’re hoping to do in college (whether a continuation of debate or similar or trying something entirely new)? Would you like to study abroad and, if so, for how long? (Study abroad options for engineering can be pretty slim.) Anything you can tell us about what you’re hoping to get out of your college experience would be very helpful in offering suggestions.

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Financial aid can vary widely. As others have said some schools, including the universities of California, have almost no aid for out of state students. Some schools (particularly the most famous private ones) have only need based aid. “Some scholarships and financial aid” is definitely not assured, and in some cases not likely.

This makes a lot of sense.

To me there are two things that stand out: One is that you have superb stats (I also like your ECs). This will open up options that you have earned through your own hard work. Secondly, your in-state public schools, particularly UVA, are excellent.

The first thing might be to figure out how good your chances are for UVA. I would expect that your guidance counselor would have a good sense for this.

UCLA and UC Berkeley are both excellent universities. However, they would be full cost for you as an out of state student. One thing that you might want to discuss with your parents is whether they are worth it. Personally if you are comparing them with UVA at in-state prices I would be skeptical unless something between $250,000 and $300,000 is easy for your parents to pay out of pocket. The same is probably true of most of your other out of state public universities.

The other thing that comes to mind is to wonder whether somewhere like MIT or Stanford would be worth a shot. Clearly they both would be reaches. They have no merit aid at all, only need based aid. You could think about whether you would want to attend either of them (MIT in particular is very academically challenging – you need to make sure that you want to work very hard for four full years without much of a break). If you would, then you might want to either run the NPC or see if your parents are okay being full pay. Georgia Tech however would not be all that different in terms of rigor or ranking or the strength of its engineering program.

One thing that occurs to me with regard to founding clubs: How much this matters is likely to depend upon how successful the club is. Having 30+ members participate weekly in the chess club is quite good, and suggests that you have been successful. One thing we did when I was in high school was set up a tournament between the top five students and five faculty members. If you have 30+ students participating you might be able to make this a larger student-faculty tournament. Another thing that we did was contact a nearby high school’s chess club and take them on in a friendly tournament.

Tennis, donating $25,000+ of goods, and internships are also quite good. You might want to Google “applying sideways, MIT admissions” and read the blog that it takes you to. However, it sounds like you are already doing pretty much what it would recommend. I would try to avoid doing too much. Whatever you do you should strive to do it well.

I think that you are doing very well.

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You are an excellent student! I recommend you take the 4th year of Spanish instead of APES…colleges seem to really prefer the max foreign language available. U Wisconsin out of state is no longer a match school for anyone - has gotten a bit dicey so maybe more like a low reach. Michigan out of state is reach for everyone. You’re getting great advice in the above posts, and will land somewhere great if your list remains balanced. In other words, no reach is “too reachy” for you (though each is statistically unlikely just because of the number of strong applicants) BUT spend more time crafting great applications to the likely/safety schools and then have fun with reach applications after that. Good luck!

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Financial aid/scholarships are very unlikely, but obtaining in state tuition starting in the second year is easily obtainable with proper work/planning. I wouldn’t remove it ‘just’ because of cost. If you apply and are accepted to their honors programs it could be very appealing.

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Consider adding USC (South Carolina) as a likely. You would trigger merit and they have a top, well funded international business major along with engineering options.

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Thank you so much for all the advice. I’ll try to answer all the questions you had.

  1. Budget - I had a long talk with my parents last night about college tuition. I also have a twin brother with as strong if not a stronger profile as me, so paying for both of us at the same time would be tough. My parents said they would only pay at max 100k for me and my brother combined per year for all college expenses (tuition, room and board,supplies, etc). The only exception is if one of us gets into like a top 5-10 school. So a lot of it depends on where my brother goes, but I can say for me my budget is around 50k for all expenses. And of course, as I said in my original post, it only makes sense for me to go to an OOS or private school if its better than UVA.

  2. I just thought my LoRs are weak because I don’t talk to my teachers much about what I do outside of school. I also don’t try hard in any of classes, because most things come easy to me. My teachers probably just think of me as the smart kid who slacks off, but still gets good grades. But I’ve been actively trying to participate in class and become close with my teachers.

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Thank you for the advise! I’ll definitely make sure to look at these schools and majors.
To answer your Emory question, I was looking at Emory because of its business program. Specifically I saw it Engineering/BBA dual degree program with Georgia tech, where I spend 3 years at Emory for my business degree and two years at Georgia tech for an engineering degree. I’m not sure how useful a dual-degree is and whether its worth all the extra work/one extra year in college tho. Either way, I’m not sure if I can even go to Emory anymore because of its high costs. Also Rice is on my list, I just didn’t include in my post.

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@ parentologist Thank you for the insight. And yeah my Parents also really want me to go to UVA, but I really want to go to a school in a city and far from home to experience new things. I’ll definitely at least EA to UVA and if I don’t get into a good school at a low cost, I’ll just go to UVA.

@ AustenNut As for what I’m looking for in a college (other than being in a city) is mainly I want it to have good STEM or business programs and to have good prestige. I’ve also been into college football my whole life, so I would really love it if it had a good football team (hopefully that football isn’t Alabama because I’m a massive LSU fan). But if the college doesn’t have a football team thats perfectly fine. I prefer to be around stronger students and an environment that pushes me. I’m fine with any type of weather, but obviously warmer weather would be a bit better. Other than that, I don’t think I have any more preferences, as long as the total college costs is under around 50k.

Thank you to everyone who responded so far, your advice has been super helpful and has made me think a lot about college over the past couple days. I definitely have to rethink which colleges I should look to apply to. Before this I’ve been living in my own bubble thinking scholarships or financial aid (which I don’t even think I qualify for) would allow me to go to any college I got into. This has really opened my eyes and I’m very grateful for it.

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Unfortunately, you might not be able to "just go to UVA " as an instate student . Or Virginia Tech in engineering for that matter. They are not a given even for very strong instate students. Good luck to you.

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Regarding your interest in both engineering and business, GTech has a very solid business school itself and an Engineering and Business minor.

With your excellent academics and ECs, you have a reasonable shot at merit, although by no means guaranteed. When it comes to merit, GTech places the most emphasis on service and leadership. They want kids who will contribute to campus life and continue to contribute to society at large post graduation. So I see that as a reasonable application for both your interests and the potential to meet your budget.

Edit: Oops. Posted before I meant to… I agree you are lucky to be a VA resident since you have such strong in-state options. But a quick look at the UVA and VATech results on CC show that you need a more likely school on your list just in case. Whether that is in-state or an OOS with a good chance of merit, please take time to find a couple of more likely schools where you could be happy and will meet your budget. Once you have that, I encourage you to take a shot at more prestigious schools and competitive merit.

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