<p>Because they have already demonstrated moral fitness through their hard work ;)</p>
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<p>You seem to assume that being low income and working hard are mutually exclusive. How, exactly, does helping “these people” obtain an education harm them? I understand you think it harms you, although you’re already receiving “full tuition and then some,” but how does it harm low income African Americans? And how do you know low income families are having “no trouble” funding their entire degrees? The “Tennessee Promise” Initiative seems to give that opportunity to ALL high school graduates; it doesn’t single out the African American ones, so I don’t understand why you brought race into it. However, if you truly object to people receiving something for nothing, you could give back all of your aid and go get a job. Imagine the sense of pride you’ll have…</p>
<p>Being African-American, I can assure you I don’t just get financial aid because I’m black. </p>
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<p>The state objective is to increase the % of the workforce with college degrees. SES status doesn’t play a direct role (though indirectly this does help lower SES to a larger degree than middle class families, simply based on their “greater need”). If you make your workforce more appealing to businesses, then more businesses will move to the state, causing economic benefit to all levels of SES. The state is trying to be economically competitive. </p>
<p>And yes, some pols want to be re-elected…funny that…</p>
<p>I agree with Pennylane2011 that some restrictions should be put in place. We don’t want “career” students that take classes for several years without ever earning an AA. Simply not paying for dropped classes could be one solution.</p>
<p>I think the fundamental problem here is that it presumes that everyone should go to college and many here seem to think that everyone should go to a 4 year college. Basic economics would suggest that if we have a glut of college grads (whether AA or BA) you will just have more college grads flipping burgers and being unhappy. </p>
<p>I know a great many highly successful people who ‘gasp’ did not go to or finish college. It is not for everyone. Think of all of the basic services that we all use that have no need of a college degree. Why would we spend money to have a plumber or electrician or mechanic get an AA degree. Much better that they get the vocational training they need to get THOSE highly paying jobs. </p>
<p>When the government starts ‘paying’ the price tends to go up and the quality tends to go down. If the state is going to shell out, they should have some strict standards AND there should be strings attached to give back to the state. (similar to going to a service academy) Better, IMO that the state do a better job of creating job opportunities by making it easier to do business and keeping taxes under control. Growth helps people all along the socio-economic scale to improve themselves. </p>
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<p>I dont even know where to begin in response to your post :-? Whether you realize it or not, your post comes off as entitled, and a bit racist. You mention that you are upper middle class, then you rant about not being able to afford school because you need the additional 5k for room, board, etc. If you are truly upper middle class, then why is 5k going to make or break you? And why should we feel sorry that your parents have more than one kid to put through school? If you were upper middle class, then surely your parents have enough income to pay for instate tuition, room and board? Now regarding this new legislation, I find it hard to believe that Tennessee specifically passed this to help low income Blacks. You act as if Blacks are the only people who are lower income, which is laughable. I assume they passed it to help lower income in general, which means EVERY low income student can benefit. Now there may be some valid points as to why this is a bad idea, but acting as if blacks are stealing ‘‘your’’ money is not one of them. And given this post, I find it hard to believe that you even have the äfrican american friends that you reference.</p>
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<p>This is just WRONG.
I’m not going to bother responding to the rest of what you said because, well, it makes my brain hurt on so many levels. </p>
<p>Oh, btw, this white Hispanic got almost entirely need-based (not merit-based) grants to go to college and I excelled there. So much so that I’m in a top grad program where I now have a merit scholarship. But I guess I’m not one of “those people” and clearly that made all the difference when given “something for nothing” 8-| </p>
<p>I apologize for coming of as entitled and racist, I am not. You don’t know me, my family, or our financial situation, so I would appreciate it if you would tone down the snarkiness. Yes we’re upper middle class, but faced with paying for my great-grandmothers extensive health and assisted living bills, we really can’t afford college for three kids. I have an extremely smart younger sister who got into Georgia Tech this year and I told my parents I’d go to local-public-U and pay or earn every penny of my tuition and living expenses so that they could afford to send her there come fall. The scholarship I won helped a lot, but that still leaves 10K a year or so that I was counting on the HOPE scholarship and a part time job to cover. I would love to not need it, but that’s not the case in my situation. I’m extremely grateful for HOPE because without it, I’d have to work 20+ hours a week on top of double-majoring in two STEM degrees, double minoring in Japanese and Music Performance, and trying to stay at a 4.0 GPA for med school’s sake. </p>
<p>@partyof5 I’m not “acting as if blacks are stealing my money.” I really, really don’t appreciate the racist label, how dare you just assume something like that of someone you don’t even know. FYI most of my friends are African American actually, including two of my besties. Upon re-reading one the article links, I realized that they are not reducing the HOPE, but simply redistributing the same amount of money so that you have $500 more your junior/senior year, and $500 less your freshman/sophomore year. It also has absolutely nothing to do with making tuition free, so that is no longer part of my issue with this bill.</p>
<p>^ Girl, bye. </p>
<p>@Torveaux</p>
<p>The funding is for CC and Vocational schools. My bad for not being clear, it’s doesn’t have to be used to earn an AA.</p>
<p>My D is looking at colleges in TN…I will be sure to tell her that being black means that colleges will just throw money at her. And her high achieving black friends at school must be doing something wrong as they weren’t “easily able to obtain enough scholarships” to go wherever they want. SMDH.</p>
<p>I understand that this does not just benefit low-income African Americans, but in my knee-jerk reaction post, that’s the only concern that came to mind. I know it will probably help many who truly deserve it, but I’m honestly concerned that it will end up hurting many of the low-income African Americans in Tennessee. Here’s an excerpt from an article of something Walter Williams said (he wrote “Race and Economics” I highly recommend it) and he’s black, so don’t go shouting racist.</p>
<p>“Williams says other programs designed to help the poor – like welfare payments – have wrecked the lives of millions of black people. He likens the welfare state to a “drug pusher” that keeps people dependent and in poverty.
“The welfare state has done to black Americans what slavery (and Jim Crow and racism) could not have done … break up the black family. Today, just slightly over 30 percent of black kids live in two-parent families. Historically, from the 1870s on … 75-90 percent of black kids lived in two-parent families.”
Why does the welfare state create illegitimacy?
“(Without welfare,) people would decide, ‘I’m going to go out and get a job, I’m going to live more responsibly.’” And that would include getting married before having children, something the welfare system discourages.
I believe the creators of the welfare state had good intentions, but good intentions aren’t good enough. Even if deficit spending were not bankrupting America – which it is – America should end these programs.”
Where I volunteer, I see first-hand the tragic effects of what welfare has done to the low-income African American population. You don’t know how heartbreaking it is to work with children who are bright-eyed, eager to learn, and excited about the future…and then see the older kids and high schoolers who’ve lost all of their eagerness and feel doomed to the same future as their parents. Programs like this have truly ruined them, and it makes me so angry that they’re just going to continue shoving them deeper, and deeper into a hole of poverty. If they really want to help the poor, I wish they would fix the broken elementary, middle, and highschool school systems in many of the impoverished areas of Tennessee. I’ve personally seen many teachers (all races) treat these kids like trash, like animals, and by the time they’re in high school, they already have a dull look in their eyes, hate schooling (most drop out), and are involved in gangs, drugs, smoking, drinking, etc. To prove this, we rank as some of the worst public schools in the country. They lose their hope for a bright future, and the circle of poverty just begins all over again. I know this one girl from the background I mentioned, who I mentored for years. It took forever for me to be able to pull her out of the mindset that without government help, she couldn’t be successful. She had no confidence in her ability to work and dig herself out of her situation because all her life, her single mother had depended on welfare programs and government handouts to survive. She now has a part-time job, received a full scholarship to the local public I’ll be attending, and even has sponsors through the public’s program who will help pay her living expenses. I’m so, so proud of her. She works hard, truly wants to better herself, and is now mentoring several highschool students herself. That kind of student I have no problem giving free tuition to, she earned it, and I have utmost respect for any low-income African American in my area who takes responsibility for their life and works hard to better themselves, because it’s so rare to see here. Why did they have to just hand out the free tuition? At the very least, they could make it so that all students who wanted free tuition could earn it through a work-study program or by volunteering…just some way where they would have to earn it. Just giving it out is not helping them at all. How are they going to learn that hard work begets success if everything is handed to them on a silver platter? That’s setting them up for failure IMHO.</p>
<p>That’s just one point, another point is that, as I mentioned before, I’m concerned that people will just abuse the system and waste resources, filling up classes that have long waiting lists of students who actually want to learn, only to drop them midterm or not even try. It’s already rampant at the community college I went to, I can’t imagine what it would be like if tuition was free.</p>
<p>I understand that these aren’t the only students it was intended for, but they matter too, they make up a significant amount of Tennessee’s community college population, and this is just more bad news for them IMHO.</p>
<p>@romanigypsyeyes Yes it was ignorant of me to make it sound like this is true everywhere in Tennesee, I was just speaking for my city, my area, and my community college. I’m not talking about you, or any other demographic but the low-income african americans in MY city. Here, students like you are the exception rather than the rule, and “something for nothings” have already done so much damage to them and their families. I’ve researched this extensively, I work with these people every day, and I witness it in my city every day as well… I know what I speak of.</p>
<p>What does them being black have ANYTHING to do with this?</p>
<p>@beachlover15 Because they are the ones who get hurt by programs like this IN MY AREA. Please think before you speak. I understand it’s probably different where you live, but this is the deep south, and even African Americans who move here from the north are shocked and dismayed when they see the broken families, the mentalities, and the ruined lives of many african americans here. You have to see it to understand I guess. </p>
<p>I’m sorry if I offend so many people, but these are people I’m passionate about, this is a subject I’m passionate about, have studied and researched extensively, and these are my honest opinions on the subject. If you disagree, please do so in a respectful and logical manner, and think before you attack me just for going against your opinion. </p>
<p>@sseamom I never said they could receive free scholarships to any college they wanted. Just the local CC and the local public. Again, this may only be in my area, I can’t speak for everyone else.</p>
<p>Southerncharm, my D also works with low-income African American children, and she has seen the opposite of you, even among parents on welfare. If anything, the parents want MORE for their children-to stay in school, to get post-high school educations, and although they may not be sure HOW to do it, they support their kids as they aspire to more than they have. And most would like to work. There’s a cap on welfare you know. The days of life-time welfare are long over. In my state it’s 5 years. So I don’t know where you’re getting that “these people” just take take take forever. They CAN’T.</p>
<p>My state also has several community colleges that offer free tuition to low-income youth from certain impoverished schools. One program is funded with private donations and is called The 13th Year". It’s been around since 2008 and I have not heard of kids wasting time or money of thinking of it as another handout. Instead, it is motivating kids who might not have thought of college at all making that decision.</p>
<p>Many 4 year colleges offer need-based aid. All the student has to do is get in and show up. How is the TN program different? Some kids grow up with parents who hand them everything they want on a silver platter. Isn’t that just another handout? Or is it that “these people” don’t deserve anything while the silver platter crowd does?</p>
<p>Considering that a college education, free or not, is perhaps the best way to break the cycle of poverty. </p>
<p>Kudos to Tennessee!</p>
<p>Fascinating. We’ll be touring the deep south this summer as my D plans to attend college there and teach the children of “these people” once she graduates. I won’t lie, my H, who is black and whose parents left the deep south to get away from the overwhelming racism they encountered, is concerned about the reception we’ll get as a multiracial family.</p>
<p>Having done some “extensive research” of our own, though, we’re pretty sure that “these people” are not all layabouts with no ambition, have their hands out for everything, etc. We’re also pretty familiar with the role centuries of racism can play in keeping people from realizing their potential. </p>