<p>"Earlier today, Consumerist reported on a town in Michigan that is footing the bill for recent high school graduates to attend public universities and community colleges. Little did we know that was small potatoes compared to a program brewing in Tennessee." …</p>
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<p>A few interesting “concerns” have been raised. One is that this would impact attendance at state universities, as students would select free CC (for the first 2 years) over a state university. For example, choosing Dyersburg State Community College over the University of Tennessee at Martin. </p>
<p>Another is a concern about its impact on socioeconomic diversity at the state universities. </p>
<p>Finally, should the focus be on 2 year or 4 year programs?</p>
<p>I really hate the way the issues with paying for college are often addressed by politician and interst groups not focused on what the real problems, and holes in the system are. Right now, the US has done an excellent job in making sure that most every high school graduate has access to a low cost community college. The money needs to be directed, IMO, in forcing these colleges to get it together so that those kids going there have the options needed to better themselves in offerings at those colleges, and for those wanting to go on to a 4 year degree, having courses that will give them good odds in transferring to a junior program. I won’t address the issues with those taking a less academic, vocational route that I do believe CCs should also provide as that is not an area I know much about, though I do agree that it is an important mission of a CC. But right now, a reason CCs get such bad names is because too many are not doing a good job in course availability, academic support, rigor of course, preparation to the next level up. Some standards need to be implemented there and money directed as the carrot so that schools work on this, and not just give it lip service. It should be a serious mission to get those kids deemed on track to transfer into a 4 year school for a bachelor’s degree well prepared to do so.</p>
<p>Instead of just dumping more money on top of what’s already out there for a community college, focus should be on honing what’s out there and also addressing the issue of those kids who do not have a way to get to a local school. Cost of CC is usually reasonable in that it can be covered by PELL for those who are very low income and so qualify, and by Direct Loans for those who are not PELL eligible. But if there are no good public transportation options, and a student does not have friends and family able to driver them, and a car is not in the picture (cars are VERY expensive to own), that is a major stumbling block. Some sort of organized, official ride share system should be put in place at the CC for those truly in such a predicament.</p>
<p>Then money needs to be directed for those kids who finish CC with junior standing and have no state school within commuting distance to get that bachelor’s. Exception and priority for aid for such transfers is reasonable and something I think should be a focus. </p>
<p>Just dumping more money on top of PELL, state low income grants in the picture, DIrect loans, tax (overlapping) credits and deductions without directing it is a waste, IMO.</p>
<p>Existing Tennessee CC fees appear to be about $4,000 per year of full course loads.</p>
<p>The big question with this plan is, do Tennessee CCs offer the courses needed to prepare students to transfer to universities? It does look like there are many expected courses in the transfer equivalency lists at UTK, but do the CCs actually offer all of the courses frequently enough (especially with the likely increased demand from the price reduction)?</p>
<p><a href=“http://registrar.tennessee.edu/transfer/agreements.shtml#equiv”>http://registrar.tennessee.edu/transfer/agreements.shtml#equiv</a></p>
<p>The most important component should be an articulation agreement between the CCs and the 4 year public universities in TN. Does that exist?</p>
<p>Yes they do.
<a href=“http://registrar.tennessee.edu/transfer/agreements.shtml”>http://registrar.tennessee.edu/transfer/agreements.shtml</a></p>
<p>Capital ($$) will also be spent to build up the CC infrastructure (buildings and instructors) to handle the expected increase in attendance.</p>
<p>Of course this means additional funds made available to the CC’s will not be available for the state universities.</p>
<p>“The plan also calls for reducing the amount of Hope scholarships for freshmen and sophomores at state universities to $3,500, a cut of $500 a year. Juniors and seniors would receive $4,500.”</p>
<p>This just doesn’t seem fair to the kids who decide to go to a 4 year college especially the ones who are already there and have planned on the higher amount. </p>
<p>As a Tennessee resident, I am really upset about this. This is completely unnecessary and punishes students like me who actually need every penny of the HOPE scholarship to be able to afford state and public schools. While my family is upper middle class, they have two other kids to put through college and we were really counting on the HOPE which has already been cut from $6000 to $4000. I received full tuition and then some at my college, but I really needed the full $4000 to help buy books, food, and room & board. I have numerous friends who are in the same boat. Leave it to the government to screw up what was imperfect but good enough. At least in my area, people take advantage of, and trash anything free. Giving these people something for nothing will do nothing but harm to them, us hard working students, and the community. The last thing we need is more people depending on the government. Our community college is already extremely affordable. It starts at $600 per class, but if you’re low income they’ll give you enough grants to cover all but $60. I know, I went there for two years during highschool. All my low-income african american friends there were able to do so for free because they were easily able to obtain enough scholarships and grant. It also gave them a sense of pride, being able to somewhat earn their own education. I really don’t see why there was any need to make CC free. I hate this state right now.</p>
<p>I apologize for my rant, but this just really irks me. I’m so tired of big government coming in and ruining what was just fine without them.</p>
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<p>While you may have some valid criticism of the change, wasn’t “big government” already there in the form of the state universities, community colleges, HOPE, and other government-funded scholarships and financial aid?</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus Yes, but giving a scholarship or grant to hard working students and providing educational institutions is one thing. Those reward and encourage those willing to work to better themselves. In my humble opinion, giving two years of college for free to absolutely anyone who cares to sign up for classes is another. Even current students who pay a small amount or are on scholarships will often drop courses midterm or just never even bother to show up. After all, it’s not costing them anything but a grade, which many of them do not even care about. They already had a system that worked pretty well. CC was/is affordable to anyone who cares enough to put in the effort to apply for grants and scholarships. The demographic they seem most concerned about helping, low-income african americans, already has no trouble earning enough scholarship and grant money to completely fund their entire degree; even at a our local public. All they have to do is put in a little effort. By erasing the need to even care enough to apply for scholarships and research grants and whatnot, I think they are doing a disservice to both the target demographic and the students who actually work hard. Cutting back the HOPE scholarship, even by just $500-1000, is just the icing on the cake. It makes no sense to me.</p>
<p>@southerncharm95 You really should check the numbers before you decide that your entitlement is being cut to increase someone else’s. How many African Americans will benefit from this new booty of entitlement? And why is your “hard work” more deserving of government subsidy? Further, if your family is really upper middle class, why should you be subsidized at all? </p>
<p>I really believe most people have no problem with “big govt” or entitlement spending as long as they personally benefit. Most people are also comfortable with redistribution of wealth - just prefer wealth to be redistributed upwards beacause those at the top are more deserving - supposedly, having worked harder. This is the justification for tax spending and corporate welfare. </p>
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<p>Whatever your viewpoint on the matter, the complaint about “big government” is irrelevant, since “big government” was already there; it is now just changing its priorities and incentives (in a way that you apparently do not like).</p>
<p>It seems to me that their best route would be to offer all grads the same amount of money and designate that it can only be used at in state (in general if they are merely hoping to keep talent in state or are worried about increasing enrollment) or state colleges (specifically) rather than dictating that it must be at 2 year schools.</p>
<p>Then let the student decide where it is best to apply the funds for their situation.</p>
<p>^^^ The new system would be close to giving about the same amount, as CC would be around $4k a year in tuition and the first two years of Hope is $3.5K. </p>
<p>@southerncharm95 Another way to look at it, plenty of folks share your issues, middle class but for many reasons are struggling to pay for college. Those same people can also take advantage of this new benefit, but staying at home and going “free” to CC for the first two years. It’s not targeted at low SES/URMs, but at the state as a whole. They feel the % of the workforce with college degree’s is too low and this is an effort to raise it, even if it’s just AA degrees. </p>
<p>Of course, that raises the question of the real value to having an AA degree…</p>
<p>To ucbalumnus point, this isn’t a typical “Big Gov” problem, as this money was to be targeted for education already, it’s just a matter of how it’s being spent. An example of “Big Gov” would be the current federal administrations push for education reform, such as “forcing” common core standards or using the new college scorecard to reward/punish colleges. Think “top down management” vs. “local control”. </p>
<p>Southerncharm raises a concern about people signing up for classes and then dropping them or not attending. This might not cost them anything, but it would be a waste of resources and class space. I think opportunity is a good thing, but I hope there would be some restriction on how many classes a student can drop without an excused reason (medical, family move, etc.). It’s one thing to drop a class that you are paying for, but another to use public funding. I believe many financial aid awards are contingent on passing a certain number of units a semester, and hopefully there will be some sort of requirement for this too. </p>
<p>The focus on funding tuition at community colleges is good, but it does seem “punitive” to not include the first two years of a four year college. Some students might be in commuting distance of one and that would give them the option of attending at a similar cost to a CC. </p>
<p>Did some quick research (thank you College Navigator):</p>
<p>Tuition at most CC’s is around $3,600+ a year.
Tuition at most state Universities is around $7,200 (+ or - $500), with the exception of UT-Knoxville, which is $11,100+ a year.</p>
<p>So “free” tuition at a state University would cost about 2X that at a local CC. </p>
<p>That makes sense Gator, thanks.
One of the criticisms of CC’s that I have seen here is the concern about possible lack of motivated peers. Perhaps this legislation will make CC’s attractive to good students hoping to save some money . I know of good students who have attended them and with their savings gone on to finish 4 year degrees. For some students, a CC is a smart financial decision. </p>
<p>“While you may have some valid criticism of the change, wasn’t “big government” already there in the form of the state universities, community colleges, HOPE, and other government-funded scholarships and financial aid?”</p>
<p>“Get your gubmint hands off my Medicare!” Anyway, why should Tenn subsidize upper middle class families in the first place? </p>