<p>Don’t forget that the Newsweek ranking of high schools is heavily based on the number of kids (as a % of graduating students) who take AP/IB exams. More kids taking exams, potentially higher ranking.</p>
<p>Our district doesn’t have a Newsweek ranking but I think that TEA (Texas Ed Agency) recognizes the number of students testing in some way. The district has had the data for results and numbers of students testing for at least the past three years. From what I can tell this has not been used to improve teaching only to determine that more students need to be testing.</p>
<p>Back to the original question based on the information in post 13 or anything you know about the law is this a legal requirement?</p>
<p>Do you have any ideas about what a respectable passing rate is for a school on AP exams? In one meeting I suggested that we should strive for 50% passing and I was told that that was unrealistic because the better students do to higher to cutoff for passing scores.</p>
<p>181818, I can tell you the actual passing rate at D’s high school. This is a public high school in a fairly affluent area. Taking the AP test is a required part of an AP course for all but a couple AP classes. The students pay for it on their own unless they qualify for free/reduced price lunch (less than 1% of students at the school qualify for free lunch). For taking an AP course, students get an extra half point toward GPA (i.e., on a 4 scale, A=4.5). 37% of the students in last year’s graduating class took at least 1 AP exam, and there were nearly 800 exams taken in total (over 20 AP courses are offered). Last year, 86% of the kids achieved a passing grade (3 or better). 65% had 4’s or 5’s. My personal opinion is that if at least 75% of the kids aren’t getting at least a 3, the school is failing in its AP mission.</p>
<p>mdoc: Wow! What are you doing to get such great results?</p>
<p>Our school requires all who take AP’s to take the exam. The school system pays the entire cost. If a student chooses to not take exam the final grade is dropped by one letter grade. Of course nobody skips the exam. It’s free and doesn’t impact their final grades plus gets you out of sch. for a half day. Lots of kids don’t pass the exams but they still get the extra 2 points (AP A=6 pts) gpa boost. It’s a gpa/classrank booster.</p>
<p>The school system supposedly does it so all students across the system (urban/inner city/suburban) have equal opportunities to take AP’s. With the budget crunch our state is facing and teachers being laid off throughout the sch. system, I’m really surprised someone hasn’t spoken up about all the money spent on AP testing.</p>
<p><<do you=“” have=“” any=“” ideas=“” about=“” what=“” a=“” respectable=“” passing=“” rate=“” is=“” for=“” school=“” on=“” ap=“” exams?=“” in=“” one=“” meeting=“” i=“” suggested=“” that=“” we=“” should=“” strive=“” 50%=“” and=“” was=“” told=“” unrealistic=“” because=“” the=“” better=“” students=“” do=“” to=“” higher=“” cutoff=“” score=“”>></do></p>
<p>181818 - You can check out this website and get the passing rates for each school in any district in TX. When you enter the district name, you get a list of all schools in the district. Just click on your school’s name and go down about 1/2 till you see AP/IB results. Note, these results are for 2007.</p>
<p>[2008</a> Accountability: List by District](<a href=“http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfreport/account/2008/districtlist.srch.html]2008”>http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfreport/account/2008/districtlist.srch.html)</p>
<p>According to this info, our school has a passing rate (3 or better) of 88%.</p>
<p>Our HS pass rate is in the high 70s. I seem to remember reading the Texas avg being in the mid-40s.</p>
<p>packmom brings up one of my problems with the plan. Why should TAKING the test be the goal? Wouldn’t PASSING it be better?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>See this:</p>
<p><a href=“less%20than%201%%20of%20students%20at%20the%20school%20qualify%20for%20free%20lunch”>quote</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That may help, it may not. At my old school, passing was at about 25% of about 150 tests every year (so only 25% of students got a 3 or above). The tests were required. Our school has more than 40% of students on the free or reduced lunch program, but most of them (well, I don’t think any of them except me) never took AP courses. So it may or may not be a factor. But living in an affluent area usually means better schools.</p>
<p>Grcxx3: Thank you for the link but I am having a hard time getting the information. I did click on my school and I saw all of the TAKS percentages but I didn’t see where the percentages were listed forl the AP tests. Can you help me with this.</p>
<p>Youdon’tsay: Tell me about it!</p>
<p>Applicannot: I don’t know what the actual percentage is but there is a realtively small free lunch percentage of the population so I think there is more to it than just that.</p>
<p>181818 - Can you send me a PM with your district/school and let me take a look?</p>
<p>18 - </p>
<p>“(b) The board may not charge fees for:…
(7) admission to or examination in any required educational course or program”</p>
<p>You answered your own question. The school board is not charging admission to the AP class nor the examination because the class is not a REQUIRED educational course or program. It is the student’s option to take the AP class over the regular class. The extra grade point for APs is apples and oranges to this question. </p>
<p>Again, this is not a state ruling but a local one. You can voice your concerns to your school board members but as you can see on CC every school charges the student at least a portion of the cost for the test (barring a low income waiver which is between you and the CB, not the school).</p>
<p>Interesting stuff in the link provided. Thanks. </p>
<p>Some think a really high achieving kid from a low performing school may get a bit of a boost in admissions at some colleges (if the high school’s profile is provided- make sure it is if it helps sell the story;)). This might have worked in my kid’s favor. Drumroll please…27% pass rate . </p>
<p>Woo-hoo!! Go Hooterville High! </p>
<p>Rah! Rah!
Fight! Fight! Fight!
We’re not really poor ,
we just ain’t real bright! </p>
<p>Edited to rhyme. ;)</p>
<p>California state law is pretty clear: if the test is required, the District must pay for it. Thus, AP tests are optional and not factored into the final grade.</p>
<p>18 - </p>
<p>What exactly does your student handbook state? Ours states they are “expected” to take the test meaning they should but they don’t have to. </p>
<p>FYI, I am from Texas.</p>
<p>Grcxx3: Thanks I got it figured out. The results were actually better than I thought about a 65% passing rate with only 16% testing, I guess this was the reason for the new rule.</p>
<p>Nunya: I actually received my legal information from a parent who got it from TEA. TEA initially informed this parent that the policy was legal but basically there could be no punishment for not taking the test because of the fee. This info was conveyed to me 3rd hand so it may have lost something in translation. Bottom line is TEA provided The Texas Education Code, Title 2, Subtitle C, Chapter 11, Subchapter A, Section 11.158 as the justification for charging and requiring the test not being permissible or at least enforcable. Later our district said that TEA said the rule was fine. From reading the law the only twp sections that seem to apply to this policy are listed in my post #13. From what I can tell this is a legal gray area that I’m searching for more information to clarify. To be clear I’m not arguing against the kids having to test just having to pay for it. I’m not arguing against paying if they are not required to test. It is the 2 together that makes this policy seem wrong and basically attaches a fee to obtaining the weight for the class. It just seems wrong to have to purchase the weight for the class. As of this year the language in the manual is supposed to change from expected to required. Last year’s manual used the words expected and required inconsistently in different parts of the manual and resulted in some loopholes for the classes in 09. At the last board meeting plans were made for money for testing to be collected at the beginning of the school year. No money, no AP weight. This argument has a history that I’m not getting into here but pretty much unless there was a strong community presentation to change this I don’t see the board changing their views unless there were clear legal grounds to. I expect we may see more opposition once the school year begins as it was very strong in the spring. While I don’t have a real problem paying the fees, and did consistently when it wasn’t required ,the fact that the teaching in some classes has been poor with little apparent efforts toward improvement is my issue. And although I’m okay with the fee provided I feel my kids have been given support to succeed I don’t think it is consistent with public education to impose this on all students who don’t qualify for free lunch. Of course I know it really doesn’t matter what I think it only matters what the law states.</p>
<p>Isn’t Texas having a problem with science and what they will teach their students?</p>
<p>Ok, clarify things for me. Why would you take an AP class but not take the test, other than for financial reasons?</p>
<p>Our school had many students taking the AP’s and not testing. Administration presumed they were taking these just for the weight and this along with the push from TEA to increase the number of students testing is what precipitated this change. There are a couple of reasons why students would take the class and not the test. One of the main ones being that the quality of teaching did not leave students feeling prepared for the test. Also many seniors already know where they are going to college so they know if the AP credit will get them any advantage at the college they will attend. In some cases if the credit will not transfer or if the student feels the need to take the class even if they got credit there really is no reason to test. Also, some classes are only offered as AP’s and some are only offer as an AP or a regular class. If a student wants to take a class such as calculus they must take the AP version. Many regular classes are not taught at a level that will adequately prepare a student for college. If the regular class does not provide the rigor that the student is looking for and the AP does but the student still doesn’t believe they are up to passing the test they may not want to pay for the exam. As I mentioned before the issue is not being required to test and is not that in order to test the student must contribute to the cost of the exam. The issue is the combination, REQUIRING payment and then lowering the effective grade (by not weighting the class) if they don’t pay.</p>
<p>Our school had many students taking the AP’s and not testing. Administration presumed they were taking these just for the weight and this along with the push from TEA to increase the number of students testing is what precipitated this change. There are a couple of reasons why students would take the class and not the test. One of the main ones being that the quality of teaching did not leave students feeling prepared for the test. Also many seniors already know where they are going to college so they know if the AP credit will get them any advantage at the college they will attend. In some cases if the credit will not transfer or if the student feels the need to take the class even if they got credit there really is no reason to test. Also, some classes are only offered as AP’s and some are only offer as an AP or a regular class. If a student wants to take a class such as calculus they must take the AP version. Many regular classes are not taught at a level that will adequately prepare a student for college. If the regular class does not provide the rigor that the student is looking for and the AP does but the student still doesn’t believe they are up to passing the test they may not want to pay for the exam. As I mentioned before the issue is not being required to test and is not that in order to test the student must contribute to the cost of the exam. The issue is the combination, REQUIRING payment and then lowering the effective grade (by not weighting the class) if they don’t pay.</p>
<p>
It’s Texas. My guess is they are taking the class for ranking points. I doubt if finances are the central issue to a large percentage of the “non-testers”. I have no problem with the “If you don’t take the test, it ain’t really AP” system.</p>