The 25-75% SAT range

Parent Cafe
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<p>At the non-elite LAC's, those with acceptance rates of 50% or greater, if sat scores are within these ranges would that be considered a match school.</p>

<p>Also if a NJ student was looking at schools in the midwest would geographic diversity be a hook. As an example D's scores should be about 600 each section and Lawrence University has a score range of 1190- 1390. Since Lawrence seems to have only 0-3 students enroll from NJ each year would Lawrence be placed in the match category. Lets assume everything else fits- strength of schedule, class rank etc.</p>

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<p>The answer is more complicated than SATs in a vacuum. You have to consider all of the factors that might result in an acceptance. The higher the SATs relative to the school, the less you will need in terms of a hook, legacy, top class rank, etc.</p>

<p>For an unhooked white applicant, I think that you need 75th percentile SATs at an uber-selective school for a match. At a school with 50% acceptance rate, probably 50th percentile SATs or above.</p>

<p>You have to figure that the bottom range of SAT score acceptances will go to "hooked" applicants -- something that offsets lower SATS -- race, socio-economic, athletics, outstanding ECs, top class rank, legacies, full-pay, Early Decision, and so an and so forth.</p>

<p>Having said that, you have to consider how the school is getting their SAT scores. For example, if they are giving merit aid discounts to 25% of the class, figure that their top quarter of SATs are being purchased and don't reflect the underlying scores of the applicant group. Likewise, you have to consider how much the school is driven by tuition revenue demands and how much a full-pay student might be favored over a financial aid student. Many factors to consider that require learning a bit about the particular school to really judge.</p>

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<p>Interesteddad-are the hooked applicants generally those below the 25% score? Again taking the schools with >50% admits if your score falls in the range why not place it in the match category. Especially if some other factor may help say -you are from NJ and they only get 3 NJ students enrolled. I guess what I am asking is would the 1190-1390 range for a NJ kid applying to midwest school be a safer match then a 1190-1390 range NE school?
By the way I agree with your other points - you have given me valuable things to consider.</p>

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<p>


Now we are dealing with those pesky hook/tip definitions. My take is it is a hook at schools that have as part of their institutional plan a commitment to encourage OOS applicants. At other schools it is merely a tip (but a good one if you are from an under-repped state. There are Texans EVERYWHERE). </p>

<p>Don't sweat the nomenclature. Lawrence is somewhere as a safety/match or a match/safety in your scenario as presented, and admission will probably depend on factors we aren't even discussing. Make sure the kid does a bangup great job of expressing nterest and affection and knowledge about the school and his/her role at the school. Make sure they feel that he/she has tried it on, and it's a fit. ;)</p>

<p>Not all the schools will neatly fit the 3 main CC categories - safety/match/reach. Heck, most of them won't. Kinda like a fatguy in a sports car seat. More often then not there's some lopover.;) Good luck.</p>

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<p>When our son was doing his research, he used the criterion of 75 %ile as equating to a match admission + reasonable shot at merit aid. The colleges he applied to fitting this profile were Case, RPI and Oberlin. He was accepted to all three and batted .666 in merit aid, with Oberlin College being the parsimonious one. For colleges who accept 50%+ of applicants, I would think that having an SAT score at the 50% %ile would constitute a solid match for acceptance provided other admission factors were comparable with most other applicants. I agree with other posters who believe that geographic factors play a very minor roll in the admissions process.</p>

<p>The corollary benefit to our son's particular strategy is the potential for greater academic success and benefits after enrollment. Friday he found out that he received an research assistant appointment with a favorite professor which will pay him $10/hr or about $50/week. While the money is no big shakes, he was thrilled for the opportunity to work with this professor. Six other top students in his department received simlar appointments and all who applied were offered the opportunity by invitation only.</p>

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<p>For the very selective LACs, an unhooked white kid's chances are pretty iffy even with high SATs, a top GPA, and OOS status. </p>

<p>For the rest of the very fine LACs in the universe, I think the guideline makes sense.</p>

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<p>californian- most likely D will only apply to schools with > 50% admit rates. If scores are higher then expected- would not be a shock- D may pick a couple more selective schools.</p>

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<p>Our high school guidance office does not use the word "match" for the middle category of safety/match/reach. Rather, they call this category your "50/50" chance category - highlighting the, imo, correct perspective that "match" does NOT equal sure thing. I think all of us here on cc know that, yet there is a tendency to think of "match" as highly likely.</p>

<p>Long way of saying, I think that the scenario you describe, tom1944, puts the school correctly in the "50/50" category - not a reach, not a safety. The notion is - apply to a few of these 50/50 schools and you should get into half of them, or better.</p>

<p>Another way of looking at it is, what category would a school be if the student fits its admit profile and/but has a 1200 SAT when the 25%-75% range is 1190-13xx? AND - critical piece of information - the school has an admit rate >50%. It wouldn't be a Safety, imo. And it wouldn't be a Reach. What's left is "50/50 chance", or Match.</p>

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<p>"Make sure the kid does a bangup great job of expressing interest and affection and knowledge about the school and his/her role at the school. Make sure they feel that he/she has tried it on, and it's a fit."</p>

<p>I really think that this is the key with your "match" schools. There are only so many places. I know for a fact that more students accepted at LU than they expected this past cycle. Visit and make sure that it is really a place you want to attend. Then go for it. That applies to many schools.</p>

<p>One comment I got when I wrote to admissions after son had been accepted (and I was amazed in the end it was his first choice), was "we knew he was a Lawrentian." It shut me up.</p>

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<p>Tom, I have nothing substantial to add to the excellent advice given, except to say that this is one of the most difficult aspects of the process. You are not just gauging chances, your child is determining how many apps are "enough". The answer is not just a matter of statistics (if it was, this would be easy!), the answer also involves how much of a chance is the kid willing to take and how much your family can afford to pay. I think that you are on the money with your assessment. The caveat is don't fall into the trap of thinking that match equals admission - that is what safeties are for.
Personally, I thought of a match as where my child had a 50-50 chance, but of course that means she would get rejected from 2/4 matches. Often people don't really get the 50% failure rate.</p>

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<p>I want to emphasize the importance of expressing interest. Being from NJ can cut either way: LU could think "Oh good, geographical diversity", as you are thinking--OR LU could think "Well, why would she want to come to Wisconsin? How do we know that she has a serious interest?"</p>

<p>Also, don't forget that "acceptance rate" and "middle 50% stats" look at different groups of students.</p>

<p>Acceptance rate is based on all who apply, while the middle 50% statistic looks at those who actually choose to attend. So, it is quite possible for a school like LU that acceptance rates for SAT > 1390 are much higher than the rates for those in the 1190-1390 group. For a hypothetical example:</p>

<p>SAT > 1390: 40 apply, 40 are accepted, 5 attend.
1190 < SAT < 1390: 40 apply, 23 are accepted, 10 attend.
SAT < 1190: 20 apply, 5 are accepted, 5 attend.</p>

<p>Overall: 100 apply, 68 accepted, 20 attend.</p>

<p>Then you have an overall aceptance rate of 68% (as reported by College Board), but in your D's range the acceptance rate is only 57% (23 out of 40). And, with your D apparently near the bottom of that middle 50% range, her implied acceptance chances in the hypothetical example would likely be less than 57%. </p>

<p>So I would consider Lawrence as no better than 50/50, looking solely at SAT data. If she applied ED, though, her chances would apparently go way up. Almost 100% of LU's small number of ED applicants were accepted, according to the College Board data that I looked at.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the great information. ADAD I think your example is right on the mark. It will be part of our analysis when deciding where to apply. I believe we will not require aid but if any is offered will be glad to accept it. Price will be one factor considered when making final pick. So if school 1 is full price 40k and school 2 is 35k less 10k in merit my D will be asked/told to consider what she/we can do with the extra 15k. It will not be a requirement to attend school based only on price but would be wrong to to factor cost in.</p>

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<p>ADad's comments are correct as to reading the SAT scores. The geographic can be a slightly favorable factor, but not heavy enough to bring up the chances considerably. There are also a number of other tip factors that can influence the decisions more drastically in the smaller schools because it is more difficult to get the diversity these schools want. Schools like that often take into consideration the major, area of academic interest, sex of the applicant, and ECs. A small school that is top heavy with premed applicants, for instance, will be looking harder at kids that do not have the premed profile. There may not be sufficient lab space for all of those kids. A school with too many English, humanities majors, will be eyeballing those in the other disciplines with more interest. The school will take a hit on the SATs to some degree to get the balance they want.<br>
My son's friend applied to some fairly selective LACs that used to be all girls' schools and are trying to get a more balanced ratio. He got into all of them, whereas I know a few girls with stronger academic profiles who did not. It is a problem for the smaller schools when the M/F ratio starts to fall below 40/60. It has traditionally impacted the admissions picture for both male amd females when that occurs. I know that at some schools, this has become a problem that is of great concern. Schools that have engineering/ math type programs, on the other hand, will give females a bit more consideration even if the scores are not quite as high as the average males' there.</p>