"The Absolute Worst Campuses for LGBTQ Youth"

[OhiBro]

@MWolf

Do you believe that discriminating against a person based on the sexual orientation is right? You you think that calling out colleges which practice such discrimination is wrong?

Or do you live in the delusion that such discrimination is not happening.

As a parent of such a kid, I can, unequivocally and categorically, say that there is, and it is extensive and deep.

Besides, at least half of that list aren’t in the South, so what is your point anyways?

The polarizing “either with us or against us” undertone with which you ask if I support discrimination is the same tactic the author of the college Shame List uses. There is no middle ground, or tolerance of other points of view. Intolerance.

The author is trying to generate hate toward these colleges because that is where the money is. “Shame on you! Pay my $10,000 consulting fee and I’ll tell you how to fix it.”

He is actively surveying LGBTQ’s in the South to “learn.” Stay tuned.

@mtmind

Many of the bigoted schools on the list aren’t in the south.

And is it really “intolerance” to let people know which schools are exempt from a federal law prohibiting discrimination in education? Does “tolerance” require that a LGBTQ student (or any student) attend such colleges?

@warblersrule

Decidedly mediocre ones at that, with a couple of notable exceptions like BYU and Wheaton. No one is losing anything by scratching these schools off their list.

Both of these comments illustrate my points. These institutions are now brandished as bigoted, mediocre, and of little value, despite turning out some of the greatest people on earth.

And based on many comments in this thread, there is no reason to let people know which schools are exempt. Everyone already knows.

If there weren’t such political perversions of Title IX interpretations, this wouldn’t be an issue. Some people want the institutions to be liable for the actions of individuals. These religiously-affiliated colleges don’t want to be sued by a person claiming a culture of discrimination because everyone on campus carries a book that says mean things about gays. But the author divisively and hatefully characterizes the institutions as eager to discriminate.

@fladadK4Q

Read Leviticus 20:13. The hate is all on one side.

I don’t follow any religion, but read this to humor myself.

[warblersrule]

@OhiBro

Both of these comments illustrate my points. These institutions are now brandished as bigoted, mediocre, and of little value, despite turning out some of the greatest people on earth.

They’re not mediocre because they’re homophobic; they’re mediocre and homophobic.

Hardin-Simmons admits virtually anyone with a pulse and graduates less than 45% of them within four years. Roughly 1/3 of first year students fail to return for a second year. It could hang a rainbow flag from every building on campus, but that wouldn’t turn it into Rhodes or Sewanee.

I’m sure you could get a perfectly good education at many of these schools (I have a gay friend who attended Harding and has done well), but let’s be honest, most of them are not Notre Dame or BC.

[mtmind]

@OhiBro

These institutions are now brandished as bigoted . . .

They aren’t “brandished” as bigoted. They are bigoted. They have petitioned the government for a Civil Rights exemption which allows them to be intolerant of and discriminate against students/teachers/staff based solely on sexual orientation. That’s bigotry. It’d be inaccurate to portray it as otherwise.

@OhiBro

And based on many comments in this thread, there is no reason to let people know which schools are exempt. Everyone already knows.

I didn’t know. I was very disappointed to see some of the colleges on the list. I’m glad I know now, though.

@OhiBro

The author is trying to generate hate toward these colleges . . .

I disagree. The authors are trying to warn anyone who might be LGBTQ+ and/or opposed to discrimination against the LGBTQ+ community to stay away from these schools because they are intolerant and discriminatory, and therefor unsafe. I wish they’d go a bit further and take @MITPhysicsAlum suggestion to expand the list to include schools in communities and jurisdictions which are hostile to the LGBTQ+ community.

[ucbalumnus]

@mtmind

I wish they’d go a bit further and take @MITPhysicsAlum suggestion to expand the list to include schools in communities and jurisdictions which are hostile to the LGBTQ+ community.

You would want to make a table of the following, with respect to any of L, G, B, T, Q, or other minority group that may be subject to unfriendly discrimination:

College	College policies	Attitudes in the local area	Local and state government policies
Example College	Friendly	Friendly	Unfriendly
Some Other College	Unfriendly	Friendly	Friendly

Given that any of the three criteria may change separately from the others, those concerned about them may want to consider both the current state and the potential for change in each.

[Southoftheriver]

@OhiBro

The polarizing “either with us or against us” undertone with which you ask if I support discrimination is the same tactic the author of the college Shame List uses. There is no middle ground, or tolerance of other points of view. Intolerance.

No undertone here - I’ll say it clearly: there are no acceptable “other points of view” to bigotry or hate. To opine that there should be tolerance of those viewpoints is ridiculous. It’s not true there are “good people” on both sides.

[twoinanddone]

The criterion to be on the list was for the school to have applied for a Title IX exemption “for the purpose of discriminating against LGBTQ youth.”

Might there not be other reasons to apply for an exemption? Does the application for the Title IX exemption list ‘to discriminate against LGBTQ youth’ as the reason for the request? Does Yeshiva University care as much about whether an applicant is LGBTQ as it cares if they are Jewish and thus the school wants to discriminate against students from other religions?

I don’t think LBGTQ students would want to go to any of these schools but if they apply and agree to conditions (single sex dorms, chapel requirement, no sex before marriage, no gay marriage) I think the schools would let them attend. They know going in what it will be like (awful) but the schools set the terms for attendance.

[relaxmon]

I have no desire to engage further but if you click on the school name you will see anti-lgbtq specific actions each school has taken. In any case if you don’t find the list useful no need to keep hanging out on this thread. I posted because I thought it was useful and illuminating.

[MWolf]

@OhiBro

The polarizing “either with us or against us” undertone with which you ask if I support discrimination is the same tactic the author of the college Shame List uses. There is no middle ground, or tolerance of other points of view. Intolerance.

Excuse ME??? One side claims that LGBTQ folk are evil, unnatural and will go to hell, and you are telling me that I should be tolerant of them?

They are against LGBTQ folk, which include my child, so yes, it is very clearly them against us. I refuse to treat people who dehumanize my child with anything approaching politeness.

From my point of view, there is nothing to separate them from neo-Nazis. One group thinks that I am inferior because I am Jewish, and the other group thinks that I am inferior because I have an LGTBQ child who I support.

Basically, you are saying “yes, they want to deny basic rights to LGBTQ folk, but the LQBTQ folk are protesting this, so they are the same”.

@OhiBro

Both of these comments illustrate my points. These institutions are now brandished as bigoted, mediocre, and of little value, despite turning out some of the greatest people on earth.

I am curious, who are these people who graduated from these colleges who you consider “some of the greatest people on earth”.

@OhiBro

If there weren’t such political perversions of Title IX interpretations, this wouldn’t be an issue. Some people want the institutions to be liable for the actions of individuals.

Leaders are responsible for the actions of their followers. I know that it is fashionable among a certain set of “leaders” to deny any responsibility for anything that happens because of their own leadership. That doesn’t mean that they are right, it just means that they are failures as leaders, no matter what their followers believe.

When the leaders of a college announce that LGBTQ folk are all sinners and perverts, they are indeed responsible for any violence or hateful activity against LGBTQ folk by the students and staff of the university. In fact, that is the law.

These colleges are behaving in a hateful manner, and so should be condemned, loudly and publicly.

Bottom line, do you think that it is OK for college leaders to announce to their students that LGBTQ folk are all perverts who should be punished?

When they do, do you think that the leaders should be held responsible for any attacks on LGBTQ folk by students or staff at that university?

[ucbalumnus]

@twoinanddone

I don’t think LBGTQ students would want to go to any of these schools but if they apply and agree to conditions (single sex dorms, chapel requirement, no sex before marriage, no gay marriage) I think the schools would let them attend. They know going in what it will be like (awful) but the schools set the terms for attendance.

Sometimes, college students attend specific colleges of their parents’ choice, rather than their own choice.

[mtmind]

@twoinanddone

Might there not be other reasons to apply for an exemption?

Not really. Title IX isn’t about religious discrimination, it is specifically about sex discrimination. Schools receiving federal funds are required to act in a “nondiscriminatory manner free of discrimination based on sex, including sexual orientation and gender identity.” Title IX and Sex Discrimination.

[mtmind]

@ucbalumnus

You would want to make a table of the following, with respect to any of L, G, B, T, Q, or other minority group that may be subject to unfriendly discrimination:

I think something like that could be very useful. Maybe it would benefit from another option (Friendly/Mixed/Unfriendly) and perhaps a College Climate in addition to the College Policies (the two aren’t always the same), but conceptually it seems like a good approach.

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@relaxmon

I posted because I thought it was useful and illuminating.

I did too, so thanks for posting it.

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@teleia, the law exempts schools which have traditionally admitted only students of one sex, but the exemption only applies to recruitment and admission.

[Knowsstuff]

This thread is really disappointing to me. I am a father of a gay, Jewish daughter that went to 2 Lacs due to changing interests. There are many rankings, articles about which campuses are safe for Jewish students and which are not so much. Same with LGBTQ students. No one has to like this article. It’s just something the OP found useful. Like all rankings there are many more out there with more information.

When my daughter was deciding where to go sorta fit and educational goals were first and seeing clubs, activities and support for LGBTQ was probably second. If you have a gay child and trying to find a school look for these clubs, organizations to support them including counseling. Lots of schools have same organizations for the professors with students and a good clue your welcomed there.

At any school we looked at safety of the surrounding areas. I think as a parent you would be misguided by not doing so. There are community and police reports, public safety from campus police etc. Every school has some areas that maybe you don’t want to walk alone at 2:00 am and all schools we looked at had campus police or someone to pick up the student and bring them back to their dorm if they felt unsafe etc. So whether your gay etc or not This would come into the equation of selecting a school.

Again, we all probably used different lists, rankings, facts to make decisions on which schools are best for our children. This is just one.

[relaxmon]

The womens colleges had different views over time and some have not been great on trans issues. Currently I believe all the well known ones admit anyone who doesn’t identify as male (irrespective of gender assigned at birth).

[cquin85]

@MITPhysicsAlum

One is that it is used to justify violence. “He said - or even thinks - this, I felt unsafe, so I beat the living snot out of him. Entirely in self defense, you understand.”

Is this, as a practical matter, a real issue? I don’t think the typical goon rationalizes his/her violent actions beforehand by asserting that they felt “unsafe.” The context here is more focused on the typical aggressor.

[teleia]

Thanks! I was curious. Apart from religious colleges I would think that maybe single sex colleges might be problematic for LGBTQ+ students. I’d love to learn more as I’m helping an LGBTQ+ student in our community. I guess it will not be on this forum as my curiosity got my comment flagged.

Edited to add: I shared the list with them and they thank you.

[warblersrule]

@teleia

Don’t mean to derail the thread but I was wondering how single sex colleges deal with this sort of compliance. Are they open to anyone to enroll and are historically single sex (I’m thinking about women’s colleges) or maybe they belong to a consortium.

Most single-sex colleges are open only to women (referring not only to cis women but also trans women) at the undergraduate level, whereas their graduate programs tend to be coed (e.g. Bryn Mawr, Simmons). Attitudes and policies regarding trans students vary wildly from one school to the next, so this is something that should be examined on a case by case basis.

The single-sex colleges for men have historically been notoriously uncomfortable places for gay/bi students, especially Hampden-Sydney. This has been changing in recent years, but they still lag behind many peer institutions in this regard.

Some schools have given up their single-sex status entirely and gone coed. Deep Springs is a fairly recent example.

[cquin85]

That is exactly the point. Parsing definitions of this or that word in the name of fear of broader implications just serves to skirt around the issue. The idiot at the pro-life rally notwithstanding, it’s not been my observation that the progressive use of the term “unsafe”- and if we’re being honest that is the rub for many people - has led to routine instances of violence against others that otherwise would not have happened. I don’t see the armies of goons running around saying “I feel unsafe! Bam! Take that!” But maybe I need to get out more.

[Julmarmc]

I think this list does 2 things. It’s helpful for parents of lgbtq students and the students themselves (as someone else noted, parents sometimes push their students towards schools they want their child to attend)
It also serves to highlight schools that are continuing to preach hate and intolerance towards lgbtq people. That in itself is valuable. They should have a spotlight on them.
Also, many lgbtq kids are not gay, they are transgender and they face a much higher rate of violence. I appreciate any list that helps steer me in the right direction to help my kid.

[Knowsstuff]

Totally agree with your statements…