The Advantaged are now The Disadvantaged

<p>"You'll get by just fine. Many, many, many kids in the slums won't."</p>

<p>My goal is not to get by just fine. It's true that it's easier for me to get by than it is for a slum kid to get by. It would be easier for me to feed and clothe my kids than for a slum kid to do so, no matter where i went to college. But I'm comparing high achieving slum kids with high achieving privileged kids, and nothing else. They have to overcome their backgrounds, but we have other challenges to overcome. Again, you cannot compare them because you have not experienced both, and just because supporting one's family while maintaining grades seems much more impressive than getting straight A's, I would ask you not to make such a statement because you have no grounds other than "it's obvious, it makes sense". You seem to come more from the "slum" background, and you think that's harder. I am privileged, and I think this life is harder. But at least I'm not treating you with disdain or disbelief. Who is to say which of us is more correct or justified in their claims?</p>

<p>It seemed true that the earth is flat. It seems true (to you) that getting a perfect SAT score is a great intellectual feat... It's such a malleable, arbitrary analogy that it becomes essentually useless, as you can apply it to any thinking you wish to make suspicious.</p>

<p>It's not an arbitrary analogy. The current "thoughts" of today's society rank the challenges of the poor over the challenges of the well - off. Similarly, the thoughts of societies past have been completely incorrect in assumptions that seemed obvious. Not every Politically Correct statement (such as the assumption by the Catholic Church that the Earth was the center of the universe) is true. This analogy is not as broad or useless as you may believe it to be.</p>

<p>"I am privileged, and I think this life is harder."</p>

<p>Harder how? You'll get spanked for that B-? Forgive me, but I just don't see the absolute horror in this that would make it a "harder" existence than, say, homelessness.</p>

<p>Never having come even close to a life in poverty, you have no way to realistically compare the different pressures that come with the different social worlds you and me have moved within. Maintaining your class position by getting that perfect transcript and college is not as much of a hard, tangible pressure as constantly reassuring yourself of a roof over the head, I'd say... but then again, who am I to speak. Maybe rich kids have it harder than poor kids. Maybe the earth is flat. Hard to tell!</p>

<p>I believe that many think the challenges faced by a slum kid exceed those faced by a person of privilege because they are greater in SCOPE, and more fundamental, but not in difficulty or in psychological impact. In few words, rich kids don't have to worry about where to get their food, when the next paycheck will come in, whether they will get new clothes when they outgrow their old clothes. It's true that getting spanked for a B- appears trivial in comparison, only because it lacks that 'tangible, life or death' quality. But that does not mean our challenges are any less significant or essentially difficult to surmount. </p>

<p>I also believe that not every slum kid falls in the category of having to support his family, having to make sure he survives and is not murdered or raped by a local gang, worrying over whether there will be food on the table. Surely some kids are this way. But you exxagerate by casting the "on the verge of death" stereotype on all slum kids. I would argue that many of the successful slum kids live in far less horrifying circumstances than these. Perhaps they do have to be aware of when the paychecks come in. They could very well hold jobs after school, not be able to go shopping often, etc. The media favors stories of kids from very bad backgrounds who "make it" because of their sensational quality. But I don't believe that this is the norm for the successful slum kid.</p>

<p>Neither does every slum kid go as far as even applying for college. Yet you worry about us taking your spot? Outshining your difficulties in life? Jesus. Furthermore, it's not just a question of you as an individual student being unjustly denied something you perhaps perceive yourself entitled to due to hard work - colleges do, and SHOULD, seek to compose classes full of kids that aren't all the same, aren't all drilled in the same social elite world -- kids that have been to reality and can bring that into the classroom. Ultimately, it's a question of the public good. Not whether you perceive adcoms to be too un-appreciative of the hard, hard, life of toil and sweat you've lead.</p>

<p>Why must the real world be the slum world? Can't my world be the real world? Somehow, there is this opinion that privileged kids are pathetic because we don't have to support our families and our troubles are silly in comparison. But tell me, what advantage do we get by learning how it is to live in a slum? Is it so college students can prepare to live in slums themselves after graduating? People speak of things like "getting a glimpse of a different way of living", but what true advantage does this pose? You claim that I have no way of knowing what it is to be a slum kid even though I'm surrounded by them. So even if college is full of diversity, none of us will really understand anything other than our own experiences, following your logic. What's the point, then? You've contradicted yourself.</p>

<p>Let me say something else about the "real world". Everyone thinks that surviving the ghetto is such a macho, tough, gritty, balls - out thing to do, and sure it is. But is that the real world so much that we need to be around others who have overcome slum surroundings so that we get an idea of how difficult these challenges are? Isn't reality defined by the most common of circumstances? I don't think the majority of America lives in a slum. There are hardly any slums in the midwest. Many many Americans live lives separate from the slum -- perhaps the majority? I am not saying we should ignore the slum. I'm just saying that the slum is not truly the "real world", it's just ONE of many ways of life in the country, and a difficult one. Besides gaining an appreciation for these difficulties, what are the advantages of learning of the slum life?</p>

<p>Do you socialize with these kids? Are they in your actual classes? You can learn from, but not lay claim on, their experience - I see you doing the latter to some degree, but the former, it seems, not at all.</p>

<p>Your world is not real because 3 billion people (50% of the world's population, as I'm sure you realize) live on under $1 a day. An additional 1 billion human beings live on $2. Your world and world view are in the extreme minority, yet it seems to be all that you see. Now, the way things are shaping up, the West is in for a very rough time -- being blind to the atmosphere and attitudes of the marginalized will become a very sore Achilles heel for decades to come from now on, I imagine.</p>

<p>What advantage do you get? This is not a question of advantages. This is not a question of somehow making sure students all follow a 100% objectively "good" notion of what academic excellence looks like. Academia influences all other institutions of society - if it is mostly comprised of kids-cum-adults with absolutely no perspective but their own, hermetically sealed one, ALL of society suffers. Institutionalized racism is perpetuated, upper-class domination reproduced.</p>

<p>It's not all about you, and this pre-defined, sacrosanct ideal of higher learning preparing you for nothing but an occupation. Academia is much, much more powerful and outright scary than that.</p>

<p>On a side-note, the intelligentsia was instrumental in making the genocide against my people come to fruition. It was also, naturally, dominated by only a small cluster of people with very similar backgrounds. Academia is a powerful institution that can easily become a tool of oppression and validation of all kinds of henious injustice against the "others" - those marginalized away from the academic elite to begin with. See the racial cleansing of academia in Nazi Germany, or the Racial-Biological Institute in Sweden condoning sterilization of the "unfit". No gypsies ever admitted and walking in those hallways, nosiree.</p>

<p>Diversity in college and beyond is not just a PC catchphrase meaning to make adcoms look charitable and good. It is vital, absolutely vital, for democracy and social justice.</p>

<p>Shut up. Go be a socialist, ok? That's right, down with the elite! Darn academia caused the whole World War II, baby. You know, when it comes down to it, that academia is pretty much the worst thing in the world. </p>

<p>And you call me narrow minded? You're the one making blanket statements criticizing all "academia", all intelligent and upper class people. I haven't made any blanket statements about slum kids. So who's self centered and closed minded?</p>

<p>You take this way too personal. There is much you can do to change academia, especially from the position you are in. But it does have a potentially ugly face - and further contributing to the wall separating the working class from academia is contributing nothing to pretty it up.</p>

<p>"It's not all about you, and this pre-defined, sacrosanct ideal of higher learning preparing you for nothing but an occupation"</p>

<p>Oh, so it's NOT all about me?? Dammit! And here I was, thinking... </p>

<p>Sorry to be off topic, but that last post of yours.. wow. I'll let other people make what they want of that post criticizing the entire upper class of essentially destroying the world with their abominable institutionalized racism and discrimination and horrendous cum Nazi practices. So sorry, I apologize on behalf, k?</p>

<p>"horrendous cum Nazi practices", heh. Sounds like a good artsy porno BDSM movie title.</p>

<p>This is a question I truly want answered. Why is diversity important in colleges?</p>

<p>See my post above. Better rounded classes give better classroom dynamic and discussions, perspectives often lacking and desperately needed in academia (esp. in the social sciences -- see marginalized views, ethnocentric theories due to a lack of scholars with experience and involvement in underrepresented environments, etc), a way of combating institutionalized racism and making the future key positions of power less dominated by white upper-class culture, creating institutions better prepared to handle and serve an increasingly diverse world and workforce... it boggles my mind you'd have such a hard time understanding the grave importance of diversity in an educational system for a long time so closed off to a particular and small segment of the population.</p>

<p>God, I do hope you never ever end up in a position of power with that kind of attitude intact.</p>

<p>"Better rounded classes give better classroom dynamic and discussions."</p>

<p>I hear this one a LOT. OK, maybe true in certain classes in the social sciences. But what about physics, chemistry, biology, language, foreign language, research, mathematics, history (I can understand how diverse background could matter here), politics? Essentially, ALL of the sciences, ALL the mathematics courses, MANY of the language and lit classes, MANY of the politics classes ... I don't understand how diverse backgrounds help at all. If you're learning russian, it doesn't matter that you came from the ghetto. If you want to solve a second order homogenous differential, it doesn't matter that your parents didn't support you. If you're learning the technicalities of film production and film editting, who cares that gang headquarters were across the street? Do you think that inter-class tensions and the downfall of academia are always relevant to classroom discussions? Even in social science classes, this is not often the case. </p>

<p>"A way of combating institutionalized racism"
How? The ghetto kids in my class are basically all at the bottom, grade wise and study habit wise. Many come to school empty handed. In my first block, many come at the end of the period. Yeah, they don't have parent support. I understand there are difficulties, but these kids don't reduce racism. In fact, I think that they perpetuate the sometimes incorrect stereotypes that are already in place, that slum kids are poorly disciplined and not hard working. I wonder, if universities accept URMs who will struggle in classes as they have had few opportunities, at least initially, how will this improve race relations and make their 'image' better? </p>

<p>"making the future key positions of power less dominated by white upper-class culture"
What do you have against white people? (BTW i'm not white). Just the fact that you believe that there should be equal ratios of races in all positions indicates to me that you are racist. </p>

<p>"creating institutions better prepared to handle and serve an increasingly diverse world and workforce"
God, so many cliches and catchphrases and buzz words. Can't socially conscious upper class people do well in leadership positions? Can't a white person fight for improvement of slums, or is it only slum kids that can become leaders of reform that understand the plight of the colored? Are people truly so separated from each other that we can't even work towards bettering a situation if we haven't personally gone through it? </p>

<p>"It boggles my mind you'd have such a hard time understanding the grave importance of diversity in an educational system for a long time so closed off to a particular and small segment of the population."</p>

<p>Way to be condescending and closed minded yourself. If I am as "isolated and sheltered" as you say I am, you should not be surprised that I don't understand why diversity is important for colleges, right?</p>

<p>"Essentially, ALL of the sciences, ALL the mathematics courses, MANY of the language and lit classes, MANY of the politics classes ... I don't understand how diverse backgrounds help at all."</p>

<p>Perhaps you should sit in on a (community) college class, or pay more attention in your own. One, you are assuming scientific disciplines are pure and free from biases and perspectives - and you are fundamentally wrong. Take as an example the lacking knowledge of Labor Theory of value or experience with non-Western systems in economics. Take as an example the erred belief in the egg as "passive" to the "active" sperm, which required quite some decades of women 1) fighting their way into biology and 2) gaining enough collective clout for the observation of eggs being mobile to even be made and empirically proven. Take as an example the positivism that has effected all of the sciences due to assumptions made by the earlier Western canon (google "Cartesian split" and critiques of positivism and the scientific method). Different mindsets than the typical, white privileged one, can make a world of difference in ANY and every discipline. Academic progress DEPENDS on the ability to keep itself as least inbred as it can. Where would math in your country be today without the influence of the Arab culture?</p>

<p>Two, politics are the LEAST effective example you could've brought up. Me having lived in three different countries and three very different political systems has enabled me to help peers, and even professors, get a picture far more nuanced than they may ever have been exposed to otherwise - the same goes for when classmates from widely different cultures and conditions speak up about their experiences in class. It is an amazing resource, and colleges are well aware of how valuable it is in terms of academic progress and, ultimately, profit as the world globalizes. Have these developments gone over your head completely?</p>

<p>"If you're learning russian, it doesn't matter that you came from the ghetto."</p>

<p>Yes, it does. Some argue linguistics to be the most fundamental social science. Language is constantly evolving; oftentimes, more freely within marginalized groups less exposed to totalizing schooling of a standardized, approved, "official" syntax and dictionary. See Fanon on the tension between Creole and French. See the explicitly acknowledged differences between "cockney" and "Queen's English" in Britain, and how understanding the social meaning of this difference has helped Blair win elections by playing on an in-between language. Understanding the social politics implicated in language has definitely helped me grasp the flexibility and quality of language, and so learn 4 different ones easier.</p>

<p>"Do you think that inter-class tensions and the downfall of academia are always relevant to classroom discussions? Even in social science classes, this is not often the case."</p>

<p>Yes, it is. There is a larger point to be made which you seem to have missed, though: the research and schooling done within academia has wide ramifications for all of society. A homogenous academia makes for specific conclusions and, in extension, policies. See how an entirely male-dominated academia helped sanctify the oppression of women and uphold theories and policies we today consider absurd (the "scientific" notion of hysteria, or women becoming hairier as a result of being allowed to read books).</p>

<p>"How? The ghetto kids in my class are basically all at the bottom, grade wise and study habit wise."</p>

<p>You seem to have missed my point. More well-educated, influential URM:s at top universities make for insights and policies that will help ALL minorities materially and socially by making their voice less marginalized and their situation taken seriously.</p>

<p>"I understand there are difficulties, but these kids don't reduce racism. In fact, I think that they perpetuate the sometimes incorrect stereotypes that are already in place, that slum kids are poorly disciplined and not hard working."</p>

<p>Of course, this is a heavily biased view as you assume getting a good grade and succeeding within a system set up by the upper echelons for the upper echelons benefit is the only behavior that qualifies for "hard work". Many of my friends do not consider academia work in the true sense of the word. Many would find you and your lifestyle lazy and sheltered from reality. Many would not prioritize coming to class early, if it meant less hours at their work. Some frankly do not respect academia or see academic achievement as that important. You have been raised to see it as the supreme good - many alienated groups do not, and for sound reason.</p>

<p>"I wonder, if universities accept URMs who will struggle in classes as they have had few opportunities, at least initially, how will this improve race relations and make their 'image' better?"</p>

<p>Again; is it really the URMs that struggle with what you perceive to be proper but difficult material - or the material and school structure itself that is fundamentally flawed, biased and geared towards guaranteeing success for those already sharing its cultural assumptions and make-up?</p>

<p>"What do you have against white people? (BTW i'm not white)."</p>

<p>Sigh. I suspect much of what I just spent time typing will go over your head, if this is the only thing you get out of my posts.</p>

<p>"Just the fact that you believe that there should be equal ratios of races in all positions indicates to me that you are racist."</p>

<p>I believe a small segment of society dominating all of its key positions reproduces racialized educational systems, racialized legal systems (research Davis' and how, correlated to black people getting the vote, the black prison population grew and grew and grew; research the difference in sentence times for "black" vs. "white" recreational drugs), racialized welfare policies... You have an extremely oversimplified idea of what "racism" is and how it operates (and on whom's behalf).</p>

<p>"Can't socially conscious upper class people do well in leadership positions?"</p>

<p>Who said they couldn't? Haven't I urged you several times now to assume just that kind of position, and breed just that kind of consciousness and social responsibility?</p>

<p>"Can't a white person fight for improvement of slums, or is it only slum kids that can become leaders of reform that understand the plight of the colored?"</p>

<p>It is my sincere and firm belief that someone from your background can fight alongside with and help social movements, but will do more harm than good by trying to actively lead and define a cause they are not an organic part of - and indeed, one their class position is fundamentally at odds with. Only the colored have that privilege of definition for the causes of the colored: only women can define what the issues for women are, only men can define what conflicts over paternal rights look like, etc.</p>

<p>"Are people truly so separated from each other that we can't even work towards bettering a situation if we haven't personally gone through it?" </p>

<p>You seem to not even acknowledge there being a situation, or at least, you certainly don't support any constructive measures against it. Sharing a classroom with ghetto kids while simultaneously being indignated over them possibly getting admitted with lower scores than you does not make you a good candidate for that kind of betterment...</p>

<p>"Way to be condescending and closed minded yourself. If I am as "isolated and sheltered" as you say I am, you should not be surprised that I don't understand why diversity is important for colleges, right?"</p>

<p>Surprised, no, but it still boggles the mind you would be so far gone into your own little world.</p>

<p>This is a terrible post.</p>

<p>There is no college that totally caters to "slum" kids nor is there a college that caters 100% to the white and asian kids with advantage.</p>

<p>Colleges don't want to be stereotyped as "the rich white kid school," "the asian school," or even "the school for the disadvantaged."</p>

<p>Shut the hell up...please.</p>

<p>to add to that...i can guarantee you that 100% of people living in this world today have to face challenges. It's part of life.</p>

<p>& there is probably no situation where adcom sit around trying to rate and guess two different kids from two different backgrounds to determine who's been through more.</p>

<p>this is utterly absurd.</p>