<p>I’m a B/B+ student in core classes; mostly A- in electives, but they never count in the GPA at engineering schools. I want to be successful in mech engineering school, not be weeded out. I’d like Cal Poly SLO/out of state, but hear that 680 SAT M & R don’t cut it. My 2 AP grades are 3, and I’m in 2 new APs this year. What engineering school could I be accepted into that’s not going to flunk me out?</p>
<p>^^^ Michigan Tech would be a good match</p>
<p>Hello, everyone on this thread. I really appreciate that it’s here. I’ve been reading it for a few months and have decided to jump in. </p>
<p>My D is a junior this year. She is a very interesting and talented kid, but for lots of reasons hasn’t always gotten every duck in a row. Here’s our situation in a nutshell, so people can know what we’re all about:</p>
<p>3.6 or so GPA UW, more like 3.5 in only academics. She’s very artsy and takes at least 3 art/music classes a year. Our HS doesn’t have a lot of APs or honors, but she’s taken them whenever she could, even if it meant getting a B. She has one C in 9th grade science, but it was an honors class.</p>
<p>No test scores yet - anticipated mid-high 20s ACT. Mid 600s SATs, I would guess. She has some test anxiety and is very interested in test-optional schools.</p>
<p>ECs are mostly in arts - lots and lots of band, orchestra, choir, theater, Irish dance for 7 years, one season of HS swim team, tons of activities and interests on her own. She’s doing more leadership and community service now and looking for a regular job, too.</p>
<p>Honors - not too many, not too many available here except for the really intense go-getters. She’s been in honors choirs, gotten excellent scores in regional and state music festivals, had a few little writing pieces selected for local kudos. </p>
<p>We live in Wisconsin, but have family in Massachusetts. She’s looking all over the East and the Midwest. We’ve visited Lawrence U, Bard College, Carnegie Mellon U. I would classify those as match, high match and reach (she’s focused on arts at CMU, of course). We went to a CTCL fair this month and she talked to Hampshire, Clark, Goucher, McDaniel, and Kalamazoo, all of which she’d love to see (we’ll be in MA at Thanksgiving, where she’ll probably also visit BU). There are others she’s reading about - our first cut besides admissions standards is always whether there is really thriving arts, particularly music, and languages/study abroad. She’d like to be near a decent sized “community” (doesn’t have to be a city), and hasn’t decided about the big/small school choice yet, needs to look at a few more. We’re Jewish, so preferably not a Christian/Catholic school.</p>
<p>In all, she’s a very typical kid for this thread, and I look forward to chatting with you all about our common journey through college search and admission.</p>
<p>We’ve done this before, have an older daughter at Tufts, who was very different, very focused, a 4.0, major award, 30s ACT, etc. type. My husband and I don’t have many parent peers where we live - most families only look at the Wisconsin schools, which are great, I know (shell have at least one as a safety), and most teachers and GCs aren’t familiar with what’s out there nationally, either.</p>
<p>OK, that’s enough! Now you know pretty much where we’re at, and we can just start talking. Best of luck to all of you!</p>
<p>
[QUOTE=JAJdude]
I’m a student lol, but I think I fit this mold perfectly.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ah, yes. That was indeed laugh-out-loud funny. lol</p>
<p>Hi EmmyBet! Your daughter sounds more than a bit like our son–a performing arts type who also loves languages and international studies, who’s bright and basically good at school, but as you say, “hasn’t always gotten every duck in a row.” (I like that.)</p>
<p>Your list of Eastern schools sounds good. You might also look at Skidmore, Sarah Lawrence, Muhlenberg, and Ithaca College–all schools with strong performing arts, in or near either medium to large cities (SLC and Muhlenberg) or cool college towns (Skidmore and Ithaca). </p>
<p>Of those, Skidmore is a bit reachy for B+ kids, but not unattainable. The other three would be roughly in the match range. Our son is applying to Skidmore and Ithaca, but not to SLC or Muhlenberg (because they didn’t have the specific languages he was looking for). </p>
<p>Bennington would fit the bill except for the “near a decent sized community” part–it’s pretty isolated.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Your list–and Nightchef’s additions–are excellent. Consider looking at Drew (test optional; artsy; pretty; and a half hour train to NYC); Ursinus; Hobart; and Union. I think she is well above the average at Drew, Ithaca and Goucher.</p>
<p>If she reaches 600+, as you think, she should probably not use the test optional route, as they will presume below 600 (but I think she will like the spirit of such schools).</p>
<p>If she does even better, maybe Oberlin? If she does worse, do not despair as there are many good options discussed here and on the 3.0-3.3 thread.</p>
<p>You may want to factor in ease and expense of air travel for trips home.</p>
<p>I have appreciated the tone of this thread a lot. Those are excellent suggestions. I have been curious about Drew, and on a NY trip we’ll probably take a look at there and also Muhlenberg (closely - thanks for the heads up on languages). I’ll suggest she read about Union and Ithaca; Skidmore did sound good to her, although Bard a bit more. She spent 2 weeks this summer at music camp in Oneonta and loved that area. She has loved everywhere we’ve looked so far, so soon she’ll have to start making some kind of hierarchy. I think she’s starting to lean a teensy bit toward intellectual over totally artsy. I’m not sure why she loved CMU so much - partly it was because the info session was a really hard-sell approach, I think. Although the campus is beautiful and inspiring, and in a wonderful part of the city.</p>
<p>The advice about the test scores was VERY helpful. That makes sense to let the schools know that she’s at least above a reasonable minimum. Of course, she has to get there first - she’s funny with tests.</p>
<p>I must admit that as much as I’d love to see her enjoy a new part of the country I feel happy whenever she likes a Midwest school, just because of the travel. Our other daughter being in Boston at least has had her pick of flights and pretty easy access. I know some of these places are pretty crazy for flying. Plus there’s all that stuff to transport! But we’ve been driving back and forth from here to the East for almost 30 years, so what’s a few more? </p>
<p>About artsy kids with B+ GPAs - what do you all think the general reaction from schools is when it’s clear one subject (in our case science and sometimes math) is clearly the weak point? We know a girl at Macalester that was awful in math but wonderful in everything else; it seems Mac just let her off the hook on math, and now she’s flying high with all of the things she really is great at. That seems like logical college thinking to me, since college is where you do start to build on your strengths and finally can let go of things that you don’t like or aren’t important.</p>
<p>My last question can of course apply to any kid with whatever strngeths or weaknesses they have. The tippy-top schools as we know expect them to be great at everything they do, but this is the B+ students’ thread. As people have said, a B+ GPA either means lots of As and Bs, or many As, some Bs and even a couple of Cs. I would think an adcom would take those very differently.</p>
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<p>That’s when you repeat the mantra, “It is what it is.” I’ve seen posts on CC to the effect of “How can I explain my low grade in AP Bio?” It is what it is. AP Bio was really hard and you weren’t very good at it. Not really another explanation required. Probably deadly for a pre-med but not for an English major.</p>
<p>My hope and belief is that schools will give an artsy kid a pass on math in admissions. However, check on math requirements while at the college, as many LACs have “core curriculums” including math. At Ursinus, outside Philly, a CTCL school, the guide told me they have a “math for liberal arts” course to satisfy the requirement without stressing kids like your daughter out. </p>
<p>If your daughter is not comfortable being in a very small minority, remember that some LACs in states with large Jewish populations (PA for example) have only 1 or 2% Jewish students–not because of bigotry and not to say that the schools are not welcoming, but you should be aware if your daughter is used to a different enviroment.</p>
<p>If she liked the Oneonta area, both Hartwick and Alfred get high marks (other than for isolation).</p>
<p>The Midwest is great, but your artsy daughter might love the opportunity for weekend trips to NYC, Philly, DC and Baltimore, which many of these schools arrange.</p>
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<p>Finding a school that otherwise fits and also has a strong Jewish environment is very tricky. If the child is “arty”, Goucher may fit-a very nice Hillel and Kosher food availability (if that matters).</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>We’re not really observant, although both kids had Bat Mitzvahs and are proud of that. They have grown up as a minority religion in our rural town and being at a college with more Jewish kids would be nice, but not essential. After being the only one here all their lives, even 1-2% Jewish would be a huge improvement!</p>
<p>My older daughter hasn’t found religious affiliation a big deal at Tufts (about 30% Jewish), either as a benefit or as an “in your face” problem. They just both would rather not be in an openly Protestant/Catholic community and don’t want religion to be a required part of their education (except in the learn-about-the-world way).</p>
<p>I went to a Common Core university (Chicago) and did pick and choose my math and science classes around my real interest in English and Art. So I know even under the most rigid core requirements personal taste and ability are respected. I just wonder about admissions. The guy at Lawrence was really honest with my D about trying her hardest, doing what’s right for her, and being honest about what she wants. </p>
<p>I appreciate that this thread seems to live in the real world - where nothing is “make or break it” and we don’t dissect numbers like there’s a magic key to Nirvana. Having so many nieces and nephews and kids of friends now in the college/post college phase, it’s more clear to me all the time that nothing is ever “make or break it.” Young people take all kinds of paths to where they want to be, and where they want to be naturally changes. </p>
<p>But getting into a school that first time is such a big moment, and emotionally can be so high or so low. Those emotions can really last. And I feel, having gone somewhere that really did fit me and gave me that transforming college experience (not perfect, not all wonderful, but true, real growth in a place where I felt at home), I do wish it for all of these kids.</p>
<p>Beautifully said.</p>
<p>If your daughter needs safeties, the 3.0-3.3 parents thread started by Ready to Roll is also a very supportive group and a welcome change from the CC crowd who view 2100 SATs as a tragedy</p>
<p>My DD is exactly like many here: artsy, with strong English/Social Sci APs and grades, and regular math/science with B and a couple Cs. As someone said, it is what it is. Our list looks exactly like Emmy’s; we’ve visited SLC, Muhlenberg, Ursinus, Drew, and others. </p>
<p>I’m becoming comfortable knowing that she’s going somewhere great, despite the fact that she won’t get in everywhere, and, hey, she only needs one yes and will only take one spot.</p>
<p>I think someone has mentioned splitting off this thread into particular topics, and if anyone wants to start one on “B+ artsy kids” or whatever, please go ahead! I’m too new at this to do it!</p>
<p>Anyway, thank you MSUDad. I see this website as an opportunity to share some ideas and have some company in this process, and your post says it all. We’re all going through it, and we will be fine. It has its scary moments, and it’s serious. But there’s lots of support, lots of choices. </p>
<p>I’m curious how your D feels about being “artsy.” My D sometimes will say a school seems “too artsy” (even though that seems to be her perfect atmosphere! She said it about Skidmore, comparing it to Bard, and I think at that time she was feeling more interested in the intellectual stuff she was hearing about). So I’m careful not to say, “You’ll love XYZ, it’s nice and artsy!” </p>
<p>And she’s ambivalent about structure and requirements. At the CTCL Fair she said she wondered if she could use more “discipline” (by which I think she meant the institution telling her what she needs to do) rather than less, but then when she talked to the Hampshire rep she got more of an idea of what a “creative” kind of program might be like and saw how that could be exciting. I also told her that she has a couple more years to mature and will know better next fall how much external structure is right for her.</p>
<p>How was SLC, in your opinion? Eventually we’ll take a trip to the NY area, and I’ve wondered how much I should be suggesting it to her - it has a lot in common with Hampshire, program-wise. But you hear such violent opinions and rumors about it.</p>
<p>Emmybet, I think some think of artsy as " Yay! No math and science requirements and strongest department is English!"; others as “lots of kids taking theater and music”; and others as “lots of kids smoking dope; more emphasis on vegan entrees than sports; and no preppy clothes evident.” These are not mutually exclusive, of course, but could explain why a kid in the first 2 groups might find the third “too artsy”.
And many kids focus way too much on what the tour guide is like, which can be very misleading, especially at a school like Drew or Muhlenberg, which have both very strong theater departments and kids just focused on getting into med school.</p>
<p>Excellent point! </p>
<p>I’m just really grateful my D wants to be well-rounded and knows she’s not quite settled yet. If I were to categorize her, I’d say “Humanities” - I find it hard to believe she won’t end up in art, music, theater, writing, English, languages, maybe even philosophy. Possibly history, but probably not so social-sciencey. I think she’s mostly excited by a place that has possibilities and isn’t into pigeon-holing.</p>
<p>Here’s another thing I wanted to say to the B+ family: At the Colleges That Change Lives Fair, it was SUCH a wonderful feeling to see my D’s face when EVERY school told her their typical GPA for entry was between a 3.2-3.5. She just glowed. I know she’s worried. But there were 40 wonderful schools of all kinds and at table after table she found out she would be a perfectly appropriate candidate. We all know how scared these kids are, and that experience alone was worth the 2 hour drive we took to go. </p>
<p>I highly recommend checking their website and finding one of their fairs. Really good stuff. And they are very kind to schools not on “their” list; they’re proud of being the schools Loren Pope chose, but they know that the main goal is to help people find all of the wonderful but often unfamiliar schools in this country. They are determined not to be their own elitist group, and that impressed me.</p>
<p>The good news is that there are far more excellent options for B+ students than people think.
The bad news is that it is much harder to learn about the private school options in detail, because they tend to be small schools which few students from most towns have attended; few GCs know anything about; and few books or websites offer much information concerning.<br>
Even CC college-specific boards and visit reports are often lacking.
And I wish fewer of them were so isolated–I would worry less about my child feeling too confined by senior year in a small school if it were near a good city.</p>
<p>I agree. I looked at small isolated schools when it was my turn, and even when the programs were amazing and the students terrific and the campuses were beautiful, I felt stifled just visiting. My D1 felt the same way (although she also found out she didn’t like a true city school, wanted a “collegey” campus, so we looked only at suburban schools with great access). </p>
<p>But thousands of people have loved the schools where it’s your world for 4 years. And my D2 might be just fine. Small isn’t so much the issue as isolated, I think. She’s said as long as there’s a real town she thinks she can live without a city - just the basics, good stores, actual restaurants, a theater where some outside shows might come through. Being able to take a weekend trip (i.e. being within 2 hours) to a “real” city would probably be enough. </p>
<p>But you’re right - we’re talking about four years. Except for D1 they’re going so fast, and with study abroad, it’s over in a jiffy, so maybe nothing would really be torture. There’s also the financial aspect - I liked the advice from someone here who said Why go to undergrad in Manhattan when you have no money and are studying all the time? Why not aim to get your first job there and really enjoy it?</p>
<p>And really, how often did I go to Chicago proper when I was at U of C? Maybe once a month (if I were there now it would be more often - the busses are way more convenient). But that trip was always a lifesaver for me, to clear my head, see “real” people doing “real” things, plus do big-city museums and events. My D in Boston is having the same experience. I know some rural schools have valuable connections within the community. Also there are people for whom head-clearing might mean a hike in the mountains. So I guess it’s a case of knowing yourself. My kids do like “civilization.” I’ll let you know how D2 feels after a few more visits.</p>
<p>All kids have their own views, just as we do. At Penn, like you, I did not make enough use of the city in retrospect (I had no money and the campus had a lot of activity). As an adult I love being in a suburb of a major city, to get both peace and quiet and city excitement as needed.
I do think that NYC, like Boston, is a great college town even without major $. In addition to cheap theater tickets for students through campus and <a href=“http://www.tdf.org;%5B/url%5D”>www.tdf.org;</a> and the incredible street scene; if you go to sites such as <a href=“http://www.goldstar.com%5B/url%5D”>www.goldstar.com</a> you see a ton of discounted or free events in music, comedy, off Broadway theater, etc, open to all, but with the best deals often on the osrt of late night or weeknight shows which I wish I were not too old for!
Re theater coming by, Drew, in addition to being a perhaps 40 minutes by train from NYC, has one of NJ’s top professional theaters right on campus, in addition to its own productions—<a href=“http://www.shakespearenj.org”>www.shakespearenj.org</a>, which mixes Shakespearean plays with revivials such as Amadeus and Noises Off.
MSU’s list sounds perfect for you, along with Goucher and possibly Vassar/Union (for unknown reasons, there are few good LACs within 2 hours of NYC)</p>