<p>"The latest agreement, signed in 1998, covers 10 years with a five-year extension. "</p>
<p>With all the rancor from the Columbia side I’ve read about on CC,( both CC posts and articles linked from the Columbia newspaper) has there been any discussion about what will happen when this agreement is up in 2008? Is there anything for a prospective Barnard applicant to be concerned about here? Any changes likely?</p>
<p>Any discussion/articles about this on campus? Or is it too distant still for that.</p>
<p>I have not seen anything in the Bulletin or the Spectator, but that is not to say that no one has written about it. It may be something too distant to think about, especially with people concerned right now about the Manhattanville expansion. </p>
<p>I know that some Columbia students have problems with Barnard students (or, more specifically, with Barnard students who say that they attend Columbia), but I think that the partnership is generally beneficial for both schools. Columbia and Barnard have some joint majors (I happen to be in one of those majors), and the relationship allows Columbia students who want to major in something housed completely at Barnard to do so and vice versa. A lot of building and re-building of programs would have to go on if the partnership ended, and I think both schools would realize that. </p>
<p>I don't know what Barnard would be like if we didn't have this partership with Columbia. To me, it would be a real shame to give up the relationship because it's beneficial to almost everyone. I love Barnard, but it would be much less exciting without the University relationship.</p>
<p>Monydad, the partnership with Barnard & Columbia has existed since Barnard was established in 1889. It is not going to change. </p>
<p>What does change with each contract renewal is specific details as to how the colleges share resources and financial arrangements between them. What does Barnard pay to Columbia as a fair share of its students' access to the Columbia libraries and athletic facilities? What does each college pay the other to compensate for cross-enrollment between schools? What courses are open to students from all schools? What are the procedures for enrollment & cross registration? What is the Columbia role in making Barnard faculty tenure and other hiring decisions? </p>
<p>It makes sense for these issues to be reviewed periodically, as certainly there are changing needs with changing times. As far as I know, the current arrangements for cross-registration are more open than they have ever been. Although covered specifically by agreement, this also may be a practical result of the technology allowing online enrollment, which of course makes it very easy to track class size in real-time, and eliminates administrative overhead as students make changes to their schedule in the pre-enrollment periods and first few weeks of classes. So right now, a Barnard student simply signs up for whatever courses she wants, with the exeception of the basic Columbia core classes and a few courses designated L for limited enrollment. </p>
<p>In any case, I think its unlikely that there will be any changes that would make any significant difference in the lives of Barnard students. The time when things were rocky was in the 70's and early 80's, when there was a real threat of merger between the schools. Fortunately for Barnard women, that didn't happen.</p>
<p>I don't know too much about this contract. But it seems to me that calmom is quite right.
The partnership between Barnard and Columbia has a long history, and unless something really drastic, which I can't think of, happens.. the relationship will not change. </p>
<p>The 2 schools are so integrated in all aspects that most undergrads find BC/CC/SEAS students part of the same larger community (social, academic, extra-curricular etc.)</p>
<p>The existence of this relationship since 1889 does not itself preclude consideration of this IMO. The nature of the relationship between the schools changed fundamentally in 1983 when Columbia College became coed itself; everything prior to that is definitely subject to reconsideration.</p>
<p>However collegegirl86 made some persuasive points. First of all Columbia also benefits from this relationship; the complaints of some students notwithstanding. Secondly, even if Columbia wanted to terminate this relationship the nature of the existing resource sharing means any separation would probably require extensive lead time to implement. Since this is not being discussed now, it seems unlikely that a separation could be implemented by 2008. Which means the 5-year extension would have to be implemented at least.</p>
<p>So I, at least, am satisfied on this point. I posted after I read the linked webpage & the question occurred to me. After consideration I don't think it's a real issue.</p>
<p>Monydad, the "complaints" of students is not representative of the student body as a whole. My daughter attends classes 5 days a week and has friends from Columbia as well as Barnard. My d. has not mentioned any issues or problems at all about Columbia, other than saying that she does not like to eat at John Jay. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that college students who are very active posting to this board are probably kids who don't have much of a social life at their college, and probably aren't very representative of the student body as a whole. I don't mean the ones who occasionally stop by to make helpful or informative comments -- we all appreciate hearing from them -- I mean the ones who seem to dominate the threads on their schools, and post frequently at many times during the day, and always ready to attack/respond to any comment they disagree with at any time day or night. I mean, if they had a lot of real life friends, they would be busy spending time with them, and not using the internet to vent their hostility or dissatisfaction.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Keep in mind that college students who are very active posting to this board are probably kids who don't have much of a social life at their college, and probably aren't very representative of the student body as a whole. I don't mean the ones who occasionally stop by to make helpful or informative comments -- we all appreciate hearing from them -- I mean the ones who seem to dominate the threads on their schools, and post frequently at many times during the day, and always ready to attack/respond to any comment they disagree with at any time day or night. I mean, if they had a lot of real life friends, they would be busy spending time with them, and not using the internet to vent their hostility or dissatisfaction.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Excellent point, Calmom. And one I do wish all prospective students and parents could be reminded of.</p>
<p>Frankly my own CC time does not support this perspective as a blanket matter. On the board of my own alma mater the frequent posters are usually very helpful and constructive- and if anything overly boosterish about their school. The comments I've read from Columbia students really stand in contrast to what I see elsewhere on CC. They seem to be the outliers, not the norm, for frequent student posters. And they seem mostly boosterish about their own school too-it's the other Columbia and affiliated schools they seem to have problems with.</p>
<p>Whatever their personal situations may be, to me that does not in itself invalidate their opinions. Or those reflected in linked articles from the Columbia newspaper, quoting students who probably never read CC.</p>
<p>So the comments are not immediately dismissable to me. They are damaging from 2 perspectives:
1) it leads one to think that there really may be some underlying tension between the schools, coming entirely from the East side of Broadway; and more definitely;
2) it leads one to wonder whether a possibly significant number of Columbia students are insecure, conceited pompous asses, overly proud and fixated on their own admissions letters, who my d probably would not be interested in hanging with.</p>
<p>In our case, d has already internalized this and still plans to apply to barnard.</p>
<p>Monydad, Columbia is a very big, very diverse school. It has all kinds of students, with all kinds of points of view. My daughter hasn't mentioned any problems whatsoever with Columbia students. She seems to have had a slightly easier time making friends with Columbia students than with Barnard students, but my daughter has always had a lot of male friends, so maybe that just reflects her own inclinations. I would guess that Columbia does have its share of conceited, pompous asses.... but they probably wouldn't want to hang out with my daughter, because my daughter has a very quick wit and extremely strong ego, so basically my daughter is not a very good target for bullies. </p>
<p>But the bottom line is that my daughter has found Columbia to be extremely challenging academically, and I think most of her energies this semester have been focused on mastering the nuances of her linguistics course. Her social life seems to be centered in the east village, so when it's time for fun, she probably isn't hanging around the Columbia campus worrying about what students there think of her.</p>
<p>East village is happening, no doubt. It's a pretty long trek to get there from Barnard, though.Offhand I don't see how this trip takes much less than an hour each way; 45 minutes at least. Either this is not likely to be everyone's routine answer, or they're going to be logging a lot of subway time. IMO.</p>
<p>But there certainly is a ton going on there.</p>
<p>Well, I guess my daughter doesn't mind the subway ride, though I think that travel time is more like 30-40 minutes than an hour -- it probably depends on time of day and I'll bet that by now my daughter knows what she has to do to take an express train. </p>
<p>I don't mean to imply that all Barnard students are hanging out in the village. My daughter wanted to attend NYU, but after being admitted to Barnard she realized that what she liked about NYU was the social life (and the fact that it didn't have a campus -- and that Barnard was better academically. She decided that she could have both -- (easy to arrange since she already had a couple of good friends at NYU). She introduced her Barnard friends to her NYU friends and now that just happens to be her social circle. I'm sure that other kids have different patterns -- some might like hanging around Morningside Heights; others might be going to Lincoln Center or the theatre district or to the museums every chance they get. </p>
<p>But the point is basically that there is not much reason for her to care what some Columbia students think. It might be different on a small, isolated campus where tension between rival student group could make things very uncomfortable, in the same way that if you live in a small town you probably care a lot more about what the neighbors think and everyone is much more aware of what everyone else is thinking. Think for example how hurtful it can be at some traditional colleges if a girl doesn't get into the sororities she has rushed -- if sorority life is very important on a campus, that form of social snubbing can make life seem unbearable. </p>
<p>Actually, when I was in college I lived in a dorm that had a reputation for being the refuge of hippies and "freaks".... I suppose we were looked down on by more conservative types.... it was freaks vs. straights, and we loved it. We even went to war with another dorm. (They came at night and stole something from our dorm, we bombarded them with water balloons). It never occured to me to be upset that the other students didn't like them, because I was more concerned about the us that I was part of, than the them that I didn't socialize with.</p>
<p>My second-year daughter has experienced no personal repercussions from the supposed "hostility" of some Columbia students. I rather think these negative reactions, when they occur, are jealousy-based! She has indicated that there is a good deal of (what she considers to be) good-natured ribbing of Barnard women (they talk fast, for example. Which is true!) in settings such as the Variety Show which is a huge thing that is poduced on campus every spring. Barnard students are in it along with students from all of the other schools at Columbia U. It didn't bother her at all...she said it was pretty funny.</p>
<p>As for where she "socializes", she has been known to go down to the theater district, to Central Park, to movies in Harlem, to Morningside Park...to museums, the planetarium and even took a tour of the Fed this fall. PLENTY to do around that town!!!</p>
<p>calmom is undoubtedly right- big diverse university, many types of students, many points of view. Presumably those students with large chips on shoulders will not be seeking to hang around with d, so less likely to be frequently encountered in any event. And that's assuming they actually do exist outside of CC.</p>
<p>On the other hand, not highly relevant here but,FWIW, IMO calmom is quite optimistic about travel time. Waiting for, walking to/from stations & ultimate destinations, switching between two trains can itself take 30 minutes, ignoring the actual ride times for the two trains. Using buses or walking instead of one of the train legs does not reduce the total elapsed time. Upper west to Lower East is not a direct route, unfortunately. Really is about as time-consuming a trip as one can have while staying completely in Manhattan.</p>
<p>P.S. by coincidence, just spoke with a current Columbia student. He'd budget an hour minimum for the trip. Much less for car service/taxi return- which costs $25 though.</p>
<p>I've made the Barnard to NYU trip by subway. It seems less than an hour, but I have traveled with friends and none of us had to be anywhere at a particular time. I may actually be an hour but just seemed like less.</p>
<p>Obviously, whatever the travel time, my daughter is quite willing to make the trip. She uses the subway. There is also plenty to do that is nearer to the campus, for those who aren't inclined to get on the subway. </p>
<p>I am used to commuting as is my daughter. We live in a small town that is a suburb of a big city and we are used to going into the city or to other local towns for just about everything we do. My daughter commuted to the city daily to attend high school. So in my eyes, and I am sure in hers, a 45 minute or hour subway ride doesn't seem like much of a barrier. What is a change for her is the very short distance between her bedroom and her classrooms. </p>
<p>It seems to me that these really are things that each kid will figure out for themselves. Because of the urban location, there is plenty to do at Barnard that is nearby; there is even more for students whose personal geographical range is larger.</p>
<p>i have a question how come some people go to barnard for the columbia degree, how does it help later on because employers will know oh barnard they give out columbia degrees too but its not like the student is FROM columbia... i've always wondered thats all..</p>
<p>If the employer is THAT concerned about the exactitudes of your degree rather than your actual competence, you probably don't want to work for them anyway. </p>
<p>Not that an employer should care, since Barnard students <em>are</em> from Columbia University. </p>