There is no good reason to “lock up” the free flow of information. And no, some people using that info the wrong way is not a good reason. There may be a good reason not to publish the student-college list on the Internet, which I think is why Exeter is not doing it in their commencement issue this year.
I’m sure the BS will give you the info you seek if you call them. Publishing just opens a can of worms. Here’s the classic discussion:
@2PrepMom may know if there is another source for the Exeter info. I’m adding to this discussion by indicating that many schools are not publishing it in any public-facing way, but may give it to you if you ask as the Deerfield discussion pointed out. Choate published the college list in “The News” which is probably available from the website archives.
Deerfield actually said they were going to publish the student-to-college list in their newspaper as well, but them didn’t do it. I asked my DS why (figuring it was to keep anxious parents from obsessing over the list) but he said, no, that they asked seniors to fill out an online form to say where they were going, but a bunch of seniors just made stuff up and didn’t take it seriously, so they never printed it. Don’t know if that’s really what happened, but that’s what I was told.
Why would a school need the seniors to self-report? Doesn’t the CC office have that info based on working with each student? I know Choate requires that info and further requires each student to withdraw any open apps after committing to a school as a courtesy to classmates. I’m pretty sure no BS is OK with not knowing where each of their seniors landed. At Choate, anyway, that information is definitely collected in a non-haphazard way.
(However, I AM laughing at kids making stuff up. That’s pretty funny. When the college process first started, CK put an online university as his first choice in the Colleges I’m Thinking About on Naviance just to see if his CC was paying attention. Kids have a pretty wicked sense of humor.)
The college counseling offices know where the graduates are going. After all, they need to send final transcripts to the colleges for each student. However, they need permission from each student to publish the info. Personally, I think its silly to publish detailed college matriculation at the student level. The world doesn’t need to know where each particular student in going. Their college counselor knows, their family knows, their friends know. That’s all that needs to know.
The making stuff up thing - I think its a way for the students to push back on the stress and hyper focus on certain schools. They also tend to be protective of each other. Some students choose schools based on reasons such as family finances, merit scholarships, sports teams, or other reason not readily apparent. I remember threads on this forum questioning why graduates of Exeter or Andover were matriculating at certain schools considered not prestigious. Who needs that??
I think the student-college list was meant to keep the graduating class informed of the whereabouts of their peers, but since nowadays school newspaper is put online, it’s becoming public information which may not be appropriate.
College counsellors know because they send final transcripts, so student reporting may be taken as a consent, but apparently some students don’t take it seriously. I believe they can actually opt out.
Of course the school knows where each kid is going-- it was the student- run paper that was going to publish the list. The school itself clearly stopped publishing the actual list a few years ago-- so it was kids asking for the self-reporting-- and then kids making up ridiculous answers, so the idea was dropped (from what I heard). Apparently some of the made-up answers WERE pretty funny.
Ultimately, it is no one’s business where anyone goes to college (or even whether they go to college). Think of it this way: if every member of a given graduating class chose to attend their local state college, would that mean that the boarding school (Exeter, for example) was any less of a quality institution?
Of course not. Equating the very personal choice of university with the quality of education at the boarding school is silly. We are talking about individual choice here - those are made for all kinds of reasons.
How on earth would that be a realistic scenario for BS graduates? These are the group of kids who ventured out hundreds even thousands miles away from home for HS at age 14/15. Why would they unanimously choose to go back to their local state for college? Moreover, a significant number of BS families are upper middle class to wealthy, and therefore the hefty cost of elite colleges is less of a concern to them. Meanwhile, a significant number of BS students are on financial aid in BS (Exeter, for example) and some of them have a good chance of getting FA from colleges as well. The two groups of students are perfect candidates for top colleges, which are excellent academic institution with best facilities, world renowned faculty, great peers, and robust financial aid programs (sounds familiar? You guessed it. Just like an Exeter type of BS!).
If/when there are few to none Exeter students going to the highly selective colleges, most likely it’s the colleges’ choice rather than the students’ choice, which is almost equally unlikely. Highly selective colleges are routinely taking the top students as well as well connected students from elite private and public schools - Exeter, Andover, TJ, Stuyvesant…you name it. And those students are happy to attend these colleges.
I believe @london203 was just trying to make the point that where students matriculate does not determine the quality of the education they received at their BS. If every Exeter senior chose a state university (unlikely or not), that would not say anything about the quality of education at Exeter, it would only reflect those senior’s personal choices. Thus, matriculation lists don’t tell you much.
Exactly my point. But, then again, I am one who wants my kid to choose what is best for her – not go to a college for a name/reputation alone. I realize there is more than one “camp” as far as reasons for choosing boarding school. In my (admittedly highly unlikely) scenario, my real point was that college matriculations and/or acceptances should not be THE determining factor in deciding on whether to attend a boarding school. There is, in my opinion, far more to the decision process - especially given that you are discussing 14/15 year olds that may be very different people 4 years hence… with their own hopes/dreams/goals which can change drastically over that time period.
The follow-up point is that the “personal choices” reflected in the real matriculation from the HADES schools, etc., strongly suggests that chasing prestige is the norm. I am currently reading William Deresiewicz’s “Excellent Sheep”, trying to decide how much of it I agree with, and these stats, imho, do lend more credence to his argument. There is nothing inherently wrong in choosing one of the “elite” institutions of higher ed, but one would hope that one’s kid has been provoked at a good BS to move beyond, or at least recognize, the “sheep mentality” that WD describes. (In fact, he uses lots of quotations from students, alumni or professors, though I suspect that the “sample” is biased.)
Does WD address the situation where a student might wish to go another direction but is “not allowed” because of the “sheep mentality” of his family or country’s culture?
I am not being flippant, by the way! I am curious how an individual can overcome such mentality (if so desired). I have seen more than one discussion on CC where parents pressure kids to go in only one direction - despite the fact that the individual might wish to choose another path.
That’s a great question, @london203 and one I’ve always wondered about. One of my kids and I were just talking this week about a good friend/classmate who just graduated from an Ivy. This person had some academic success in college but very, very little social success and was unhappy with college in comparison to the boarding school experience. This is a person with some family but mainly cultural pressure to attend a very narrowly defined set of prestige schools. Child and I both agreed that we think this person would have been much happier with another choice of college, in terms of size and student body makeup, rather than choosing the college that fit her culture’s definition of what was prestigious/desirable. As this is a person I care about, it’s kind of sad, honestly.
Oh please. Are you all really serious about that infamous professor and his “theory”? If so, then let’s not kid ourselves. Kids coming out the nice bubble of their boarding school are mostly “sheep”, OK? Some of these sheep have more choices of which “bubbles” they want to move on to next, some have fewer. Some are picker and some are more compliant… No sheep has the ultimate freedom because their parents, their schools, their social circles and the value system they live in set the parameters and their “freedom” is within those parameter. To suggest a kid who chose Columbia is more of a sheep than a kid who chose Colgate is just ridiculous.
So let me get this straight @panpacific, because I am unclear on your statements. Are you saying that boarding school students have no choice other than that of attending prestigious and/or well known colleges? And that all boarding school kids live in bubbles? That they float from one bubble to the next? That is rather dismissive of all the individuals in those communities.
And no one has said that WD has the answer. In fact, @charger78 specifically said that he is “trying to decide how much of it [he agrees] with” the premise proposed. I have stated here (and on other threads) that I believe a kid should have a choice in where to attend school (boarding school AND college). There are many who disagree with me on this point. But, I do believe that my kid should be her own person and attain her goals in the best way SHE sees fit. I will not always agree with her choices, but I certainly support her and her right to choose. Simply put, I would hate for my kid to be the one @doschicos used in the example above.
@london203: I said what I said, which is not what you paraphrased. But, I will give up now. You have every right to make your choices in parenting your kids, and believe what you want/need to believe. So do I. Sometimes when we are too far apart in perspectives, arguing or debating wouldn’t get us closer.
Our kids’ generation faces a lot of stress and anxiety exacerbated by a narrow definition by many of what success means, in the face of ever increasing competition. To replicate, for example, a parent’s “success” in terms of college matriculation can be a heavy burden to bear. The acceptance rate at UPenn in 1980, as an example, was over 40%. I have seen/know many very stressed out kids. Kids on meds for anxiety and/or depression, kids with eating disorders, kids who cut, kids with alcohol and drug issues. These are kids from competitive public schools, private day schools, and, yes, boarding schools.
Another actual real world example: My other kid told me yesterday that a friend who just graduated from the local public high school is feeling badly about going to a LAC in USNew’s top 5. This is a school in our region that is an amazing school with a very happy student body, wonderful academics, and high marks for quality of life. This person didn’t get into the Ivies on their list and feels like this LAC is beneath them because “no one has heard of it”, which is not only really, really sad but not true.
As the mother of two so-called "Top Boarding School " grads ( or one Mother Ship BS grad and one Holy Grail BS grad- take your pick ) who matriculated to Ivy ( and one super " Gem " Kid who is matriculating to an awesome LAC next year )… your posts actually make me cringe @panpacific. You’ve managed to take my family’s reality and make it sound pedestrian and gross. I think you’ve probably made other veteran BS parents cringe a little bit, too…
Sane parents don’t have college admissions on their mind when they’re applying to BS… and the ones who do are THE SHEEP and THE PROBLEM .
Obviously you’re free to worship at any “Top” Boarding School/ College altar you wish and for whatever reasons you choose, but try not to buy everything (you think) these schools are selling… or you’ll start to sound a little bit naïve- and I’m being charitable here.
Yes- the “Top” BS schools ( you seem focused on ) are wonderful but not because of their Matriculation Lists. Truth be told they’re not much different than other BSs in the Top 30. So easy with the Exeter this and Exeter that malarkey… . It’s so insufferable that Exeter should either cut you a check or takeout a restraining order.
If you’re a parent who is counting Ivy League Schools on BS Matriculation Lists ( before applying ) you’re not helping your kid because you’re already waist deep in a swamp of meaningless pap.