<p>apple2pie/ i seriously don't see why comparing same colleges from both schools is such a hard concept to grab on.</p>
<p>if we had only two colleges just like so many other top 15 schools (CAS and Eng) SAT median would've been much higher. So what you're basically saying is we should've just stuck with those two colleges and not create any extra #1 colleges in the nation (ag and hotel) if it wanted to be more prestigious. i don't buy that. it lowers median SAT but i guess we will live with it. </p>
<p>and for highschool seniors, it won't help them thinking cornell would be easier to get in than other ivies unless they're thinking of applying to Ag or Hotel because our CAS and Eng is as hard as any other lower-ranked ivies to get in.</p>
<p>and yes, i guess Agricultural's admin standard would be lower just like UPenn nursing's admin standard is lower, thus lower SAT.</p>
<p>Correction- we have 3 number one schools in the nation. Architecture, Ag, Hotel (Duke has zero), and one number one school in the ivy league-engineering.</p>
The only undergraduate rankings I'm aware of are the Gourman rankings. They were last updated in 1997. Not exactly very acccurate. </p>
<p>Brown man, department rankings matter relatively little at the undergraduate level. Although my university does extremely well in the National Research Council rankings, I would not say it provides a better education than, say, Dartmouth or Williams (despite its propaganda about academic rigor). In fact, as far as attention to undergraduates goes, I would say it's behind both. </p>
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[quote=patlees88]
Seriously, know your place. I could understand if a HYPS student has an attitude like yours, even if that would be really annoying and would seriously make that person not the most attractive person to hang out with in real life.
Ah. So you'd say there's a chasm between HYPS and Chicago while claiming that Chicago and Notre Dame provide exactly the same education? That doesn't make very much sense at all. :confused:</p>
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They were last updated in 1997. Not exactly very acccurate.
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<p>Schools change very, very slowly. The NRC ranking of 1995 is probably still mostly accurate.</p>
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Brown man, department rankings matter relatively little at the undergraduate level.
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<p>Where there are top departments, you have top faculty, top grad students, top facilities, top research, top library holdings... and if the school has a strong undergrad (like Cornell and Duke), then undergrads have access to all of that. It pays to go to a school with top departments in your areas of interest, even if you are just an undergrad.</p>
<p>The only undergraduate departmental rankings are NOT the Gourman Rankings. Even if this were so, as kyle said, departmental reputations change slowly. There are plenty of other sources. Check out US News, and other magazines that have rankings for certain majors (i.e. businessweek for business, etc) which are usually produced annually. I do not buy your statement that undergraduate rankings don't matter. They surely do indicate the strengths of a school's department relative to that of another school's, and consequently show that Cornell is extremely strong at the undergraduate level.</p>
<p>*note: for enrolling students, not admitted. thus numbers would be lower.</p>
<p>SAT midpoint:</p>
<p>Dartmouth (only 1 college) 1450
Columbia University (CAS, Eng, GS) 1435
Duke University (CAS, Eng) 1435
Brown University (not sure) 1430
Cornell (CAS, Eng) 1430
University of Chicago 1425
University of Pennsylvania (CAS, Wharton, Eng, Nursing) 1425
Northwestern University 1410
University of Notre Dame 1405
Johns Hopkins University 1385</p>
Schools may change slowly, but departments certainly do not. I can think of at least three professors in my department who have retired since I've been here (and another died). </p>
<p>One need only look at Duke for an illustration of my point. Roughly 10 years ago it was arguably in the top 3 for English. With the exodus of Stanley Fish and several other key professors, the department crumbled and is being rebuilt. </p>
<p>Take Brown as another example. A year ago, it had exactly one professor each in the "departments" of Egyptology and History of Math. The departments have since been combined, and several new professors have been hired.</p>
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The SAT's test very basic information. I'm pretty sure basic math is required to be a good architect. </p>
<p>Also, you assert that the specialty schools look for "other qualifications". What "other" qualifications could you have that would make you stand out for say Hotel Management for a HIGH-SCHOOLER? You worked for a restaurant? lol.
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<p>Why, that is exactly what they ARE looking for in Cornell's schools (beyond arts/sci and engineering). Evidence of interest and dedication to those specialty fields. Just like at Northwestern - would you say that it's a "weaker" school because the kids in the journalism school, the music school, and the theater school -- schools that are each premier within their given fields -- have lower math SAT's than arts/sci and engineering? How dumb of a conclusion would <em>that</em> be?</p>
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Schools may change slowly, but departments certainly do not. I can think of at least three professors in my department who have retired since I've been here (and another died).
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<p>When I mean schools, I mean all all the departments within too. Department quality changes slowly unless the university has the financial resources to completely overhaul it--spending millions recruiting professors, many more millions getting the classroom space expanded and the facilities built, more to staff the expanded department, tons more money to recruit the best grad students, etc. It's expensive to upgrade a department. Few universities have the resources to increase any one departments quality dramatically in a decade.</p>
<p>honestly I am starting to hate blue10is and EAD because what you are saying is sooo stupid i can't take it anymore. I am a big duke fan but you're making me hate it</p>
<p>a difference of 1385 mid SAT for JHU to 1450 for dartmouth means NOTHING. this shows nothing about the quality of the students- does the SAT show your quality as a student?!</p>
<p>To answer Wneckid99 question, ofcourse it does not! Your SATs are just a small part of you and if you judge a student by their SAT scores than a lot of Ivy League students would not be there. You have to look at the whole package and not just a certain aspect of a person's profile. </p>
<p>Secondly, and most importantly, i honestly feel we should stop the whole 'Oh, look at my college.. it is soo much better than yours' posts. Maybe it is just me, but i feel lucky when some people chance me and say i have good chances at places like JHU, U of Chicago, UMich...i just feel lucky that i may one day attend such fine colleges. Probably all the colleges listed in this thread are good in their own ways. Sure, some are more 'prestigious' than others. Doesn't give anyone the right to look down on other colleges! If it were so, students of Harvard could do that with anyone but i never see them doing that. </p>
<p>People should stop trying to prove their college's superiority by rankings, stats etc. I feel people attending Duke, JHU,NU, Cornell, HYP and other places should just feel lucky about the quality of education they are receiving .Remember, when you tell someone that your college is better than theirs, it may hurt them because they worked really hard to get in. Encourage each other. It will go a long way to help someone else.</p>
<p>Those rankings of matriculating SAT scores are truly meaningless and provide no insight into the schools background that are worth mentioning. To me, its just basic stats and numbers which have no significance really whatsoever to a person considering to apply for that college.</p>
<p>Phead, I mostly agree with you, except that to some extent, these average scores can say something about the incoming class, and many people find this important. One minor reason I chose Duke over U of M was because I believed at Duke I would be surrounded by (ON AVERAGE) slightly brighter and high-achieving people, and I would gain the most out of this environment. Agreed, this was a little more of a significant difference, and when you are comparing schools on that scale which are so close apart, the difference often becomes negligible.</p>
<p>Wneck kid I am sorry you are starting to dislike Duke so much. However, to my knowledge I haven't made any arguments about or even mentioned SAT scores on this thread. The overwhelming theme of my posts is schools such as Johns Hopkins and Dartmouth are peer institutions with Duke University and are extremely different environments, making ones choice more based upon the environment or program (as, for example, if you wanted to be a hotel manager, cornell might be a more logical choice over harvard). I am unaware of any bragging I've done in this thread, but if I've done so, please do not take it as a representation of Duke.</p>
<p>You separate Cornell's schools while you leave Penn all together.</p>
<p>You know what? I'm tired of arguing with people who feel the need to remove part of their school to make it seem like that most of the students can crack 1400. Guess what? Cornell still has the lowest SAT median of the Ivy League. It is STILL widely considered the safety Ivy and will continue to be that for many many more years.</p>
<p>apple2pie9 // Penn has both Wharton and Nursing stuck in, meaning they would cancel out each other and if you leave those two out (to make it only CAS and Eng), their median SAT wouldn't still differ by much (i'd actually think it would go down due to eliminating Wharton, just my guess). how big is this nursing college anyway?</p>
<p>and it won't be your safety in any years unless you are thinking of becoming a hotelie and apply for Hotel school. your chance of getting into either Cornell CAS and Eng are as good as any other lower-ranked ivies' CAS and Eng (most of ivies only have those two anyway)</p>
<p>so tell any of your friend who's so freaking surprised because he didn't get into cornell with >1500 SAT to shut up because he obviously applied to wrong college for his purpose. and that has happened and will happen throughout the years.</p>