In all due respect, I don’t entirely agree with all of that. For one thing, on this forum, there is often a perception that if a program is bigger, it is less selective. However, one must examine acceptance rates, not the size of the program. The acceptance rate for the MT studio at NYU is very low. Acting is a bit higher than for MT, but that is true at many schools.
Saying that they give “no money” is not accurate. Do they have the best financial aid compared to others schools? Probably not. But that doesn’t mean they give NO money. For one thing, they do give need based aid. They also have merit scholarships combined with need. The school is very expensive. I get it. Often the amount of aid is not enough for many people. But this is not the same as saying “no aid.” I know many students who have received some financial aid at Tisch. My own kid got a scholarship for $20,000/year for all four years, and then some additional smaller scholarships in senior year from them. I’m not saying that is the typical amount. But it is not true that they give NO money. In fact, that scholarship amount was higher than the amounts offered to her by CMU, BOCO, Syracuse, Ithaca, Penn State, and Emerson.
I have never heard that the dance is not good or not leveled properly. I’d love to hear from very recent NSB families about that, if any are here and can comment? When my D attended, each year they took ballet, jazz, and tap, for example and for each year/grade, there were four levels of each discipline. There was an audition on day one to be placed into the right levels. My D came in with years of dance and was placed in challenging dance classes. I have not heard that this has changed, but would like to hear from people who actually attend about this, not from those who don’t go there or have a kid there, just to get an accurate assessment.
How do you know they take a “LOT” off the waitlist? Schools like NYU accept more students to yield their targeted number and if they don’t yield that number, they go to the waitlist. However, I have not heard any figure in terms of the number who came off the waitlist for the MT program, or what the percentage is of those who were admitted from the waitlist (percentage is more accurate than the sheer number).
Again, with BOCO, the size of the class doesn’t indicate the level of selectivity.
Current families at Tisch, feel free to update this information.
@NeensMom, my D doesn’t go to UArts, but she was accepted there and we went to the accepted students day two years ago. The location is fantastic: it’s in the heart of Philadelphia on a street lined with theaters nicknamed “The Avenue of the Arts.” (Of course, if you want a traditional college campus, it may not be for you! But my D is a city girl and loved it.) The dorms are actual apartments with their own kitchens and bathrooms.
Everyone seemed very warm and friendly. There are a ton of performance opportunities, and there’s a collaboration with a professional theater or group in which the senior MTs work on new musicals (I’m sorry I don’t remember what professional organization the collaboration is with, but it was impressive.)
The main thing I remember is that there’s LOTS of mixing of the majors - it’s not compartmentalized. Students are encouraged to take classes in other majors and explore lots of interests. I talked to one acting major who took classes in ceramics and lots of filmmaking classes and ultimately decided she wants to be a filmmaker, and an MT major who wrote a play that was being performed at the Edinburgh Festival. There’s also a lot of collaboration: acting and MT students can work on projects for filmmaking and animation students, lending their voices and singing ability etc. A lot of students also find work at the many professional theaters near the school.
@DramaQueen219 has a daughter there - definitely PM her if you haven’t already!
obviously, all opinions I post on this site are our own. My d has a very good friend at NYU NSB (sophomore) - very unhappy there - says she has a new dance teacher every three weeks, and none of the kids in her class can dance. This may be true, it may not - but before I shell out $80k a year I would look into it. Especially since @NeensMom was concerned with UArts being a true triple threat program.
NYU is notorious for giving very little financial aid. Do some people get financial aid - yeah probably - but A LOT of people are disappointed by the aid compared to the price tag. But that truth will be revealed when a person gets their aid package so… Just a warning since @NeensMom was unhappy with the UArts financial package if her D did get into Tisch she would more likely be more unhappy with NYU - but who knows…
It’s a large program (Tisch is a large program) and they do take a lot of kids - a fact not an opinion. So chances for acceptance are higher than some other schools unless you apply NSB only and then acceptance would be similar to a more selective program - so numbers-wise the chances of getting into NYU all studios is higher than a lot of the programs we discuss on this site that at the end of the day are looking for a class of 15-20. And because of the large class size and price, they do end up taking a lot off the waitlist - this is something I hear from a lot of people and it also makes sense - big program, expensive, not a lot of aid, people can’t afford it and they move to the waitlist.
This is what I hear from my research of former and current students in the program - other people may hear different things - obviously, this is a forum that people come to share information - and nobody should take only one person’s opinion about a program, they should gather information and decide for themselves.
And in full disclosure, I know very little about BOCO - this isn’t one we looked at - They do take more than the very small 15-20 in total that some of these schools take - so again just numbers-wise your chances of acceptances have to be a little better - this is an assumption on my part based on math and nothing else.
I realize we are all posting what we know. Still, I think information from someone who attends or whose kid attends the school is closer to what it is like than one who doesn’t.
I entirely disagree that because a school takes a bigger class (be it NSB or BOCO, for example) that it is less selective. Acceptance rate is the comparison tool, not the size of the program.
The point about the acting studios having a higher acceptance rate than NSB (MT) at Tisch is similar to at a lot o these schools where the odds are a bit better (not easy!) for acting than for MT. But again, one must examine the acceptance rate, not the number of slots in the program.
Indeed it is an expensive school and some may not take the offer due to cost and not enough aid, understandably. But again, that doesn’t always equate to going to a waitlist or taking a “LOT” off the waitlist because they accept more students than the number of spots in the class (this is often a misconception I read on the MT Forum too…that if someone turns down an offer, that they go to the waitlist). Unless you know the numbers that come off the waitlist for the MT studio at Tisch or the percentage off the waitlist (even better), I don’t think it is fair to say that they take a “LOT” off the waitlist. I will add that NYU has ED and EDII and so there are many kids who get accepted that way and are committed to attend. My D had so many friends at Tisch who got in ED and so those slots are never going to be available to anyone on a waitlist. My D did not apply ED even though it was her first choice, because I wanted her to be able to visit all of her schools before making the decision and I thought we would do that in junior year, but we were only able to visit half of them because she decided in winter of tenth grade to graduate high school a year early and so she was applying to college in her junior year and turned 16 during the process. Not all these MT programs have ED and so remember, that a number of slots are accounted for at Tisch through ED and are committed to attending.
I’d be wary of a student who says that “none of the kids can dance.” I’m sure the dance skills vary in the class, but I know many who have entered Tisch for MT who came in with years and years of dance training, including my kid. That doesn’t mean everyone, but surely some of the students, as is true at many of these programs. I’m sorry that the student is unhappy at the program (and believe you), but this points out to me that when we visited programs, we talked to many who attended, not just one, because you could end up talking to the unhappy one at the program, which may not be indicative of a majority of students. Recently, I spoke with someone who had two students who transferred out of UMich MT and out of CMU MT, and we all know these are highly regarded programs. At most wonderful programs and colleges, there are some who feel the fit is not right and opt to transfer.
I don’t agree that BOCO is easier in terms of chances necessarily, just because it is a larger program. You can be a larger school and have a low acceptance rate. The acceptance rate is the number to go by, not the size of the program in terms of selectivity numbers. I’ll just add that if one program accepts 3% and another accepts 6%, I don’t see any significant difference in the odds of getting in…these BFA in MT programs are highly selective and the odds are simply low all the way around.
Just a gentle disagreement with @DivaStageMom 's second-hand info. I respect that you’re repeating what you hear @DivaStageMom - and we all hear various things about various programs that may or may not be just one person’s experience.
If someone enters NYU / NSB as a strong dancer, perhaps they would not be challenged sufficiently because NSB does not eliminate movers from their applicant pool. I have heard this about other programs, dance is usually the 3rd priority of the triple threat.
My NSB sophomore D was a decent dancer in HS but not a “true” dancer coming into the program. She’s had a very different experience with dance at NYU - consistent and really wonderful teachers. Her freshman ballet teacher also teaches dance at Julliard and that first year class was formative in helping her move from “decent dancer” to “dancer” . She has found the leveling to be appropriate and helpful. When she comes home to LA she goes to classes at Edge (alongside industry professionals) and she can tell how well she’s getting trained at NSB by the levels of classes she can now take there. So we have some “independant” validation that her dance training at NYU has been excellent to date.
Guys…We all know all too well how selective getting into any MT BFA is! That’s why our kids apply to 20 schools and their friends apply to 4. With multiple people on this forum whose kids have talent, experience, and desire with ZERO acceptances I find it simply ridiculous that anyone would classify any of these programs as “not selective” or would use that as a reason to turn down one of those programs. Even the Conservatories that take 60 freshmen have 1500 or more applicants. That’s insanely selective!
I could not agree with you more!! Every one of these programs we have on our threads is selective and are amazing programs. Acceptances have so many variables, numbers alone don’t tell the story. And coveting the most selective schools is not always the best idea. I am not going to talk down on any programs on social media. But I do have a little bit of insiders knowledge on the granddaddy of exclusivity, The Juilliard School. As amazingly fantastic as it is, there is a downside (like with every program!). I’ll answer a private message about it, if the info is really needed.
@CaMom13 - I was responding directly to someone who in a prior post was concerned about the dance at a school her daughter was accepted to - I contacted a person from that school and she said in that school if you were a really good dancer you could take classes with the dance department - that is #4 in the country - so I was comparing this to NYU where my d has a friend with a different experience - but obviously if anyone is reading all this back and forth and curious I would suggest that they contact some current students from NYU and find out for themselves - this forum should just be a starting point not a place to make a final decision.
@soozievt - My use of the word “selective” refers to math - A highly selective school - gets 2200 pre-screens to yield an acceptance of 30 or so… Your chance of getting in is about 1% - highly selective. A school that auditions lets say 1000 (non-prescreen) for 100 spots would yield a 10% acceptance and therefore be less selective - so schools that accept more, and audition less are less selective - says nothing about the school, or the talent of the people who go there - just math… So I believe that BOCO would be less selective than say CCM - math wise - the talent level in the school may be comparable or even better. Neither of these are schools we applied to so I am going only by numbers.
About waitlists - again math - people on another forum got waitlisted to BW - they seem to have a large waitlist for possibly IDK, the possibility of 3 spots somebody mentioned… chances of getting off the waitlist are slim - they do not select “a lot” from the waitlist. NYU Tisch is a big program - and it is expensive so numbers-wise you have a better chance of getting off the waitlist. The math on that just has to work out - so compared to BW they take “a lot” off the waitlist - semantics. Some of these programs we compare are soooo tiny so even if 20 people got into NYU off the waitlist that’s A LOT! 20 people is larger than some of these entire programs!
This isn’t my opinion of NYU - I think it’s a great school, ideal location, its a perfect program for people who want both academics and the arts. But if you are price conscious and want challenging dance you may want to do research before you spend the $$. Do research - please do not take my opinion as the final word on this! I am not an expert on NYU and certainly do not claim to be.
@NeensMom we have spoken privately but I am posting here so other can benefit. My D graduated MT from Uarts in 2019.
Pros:
MT and Acting take acting classes together first two years. 10-15 students per class.
All freshman required to take 2 semesters of piano.
Top 5 dance school in country. All classes leveled and students can take classes in school of dance. By senior year my D was taking 8 classes per week (you are allowed to audit if you have too many credits). She took traditional dance and then Partnering, choreo (they learn choreo from a particular show just like at an audition and have to do it in 10 minutes), aerial silks, etc.
Private voice all 4 years with coaching added junior year.
Gender and ethnic neutral casting.
Fringe festival is a huge festival annually in Philly and is a professional credit. My D did 3 shows with them.
2 2019 grads are in the tour of Rent, 1 is the lead in the Sponge Bob tour. My D already had an agent but others go offer in showcases (they do New York and LA).
Off campus housing for second year is way cheaper than other cities and will save you half off R&B.
The Gen Ed classes are super interesting. Science is “Observing Humans,” which involves actually observing humans. This ties in nicely with acting training.
Cons:
The food. Truly awful.
Price. They have a huge endowment and have money available so if you appeal you will get something.
They do a lot of original material so if your D wants to do Hairspray or legally blonde, not gonna happen.
I am sure there are more cons so if anyone has questions, please ask.
@SingerDancerMom - I agree - all these programs are INSANELY selective! So strangely when a program takes 30 instead of 15 - it’s like OMG - that’s a lot - which is INSANE - its the crazy math we are dealing with every day! In addition to MT programs my D also applied to schools like Vassar and Wesleyan with a 15% acceptance rate that to the outside world is a highly selective school - but to everyone on this thread is like wow great odds!! Right - I don’t think any of these schools we are discussing have a 15% acceptance rate - that is the insanity of this process!
@CAmom13 - I hope we can all use this forum to share information and as a launching point for people to ask smart questions. I hope that sharing something I heard from another student didn’t offend anyone on this thread. It is certainly not the final word on the school.
@DivaStageMom I’m not sure what to say that I haven’t already said, but I simply disagree with you, respectfully. I also put more stock into comments about a school by those who have first-hand experience there and not second-hand hearsay.
It is clear your D’s friend at NYU/Tisch is not happy and that is too bad. It happens at most colleges or programs. I think it is a gross generalization to say, however, that none of the students can dance. I believe there is a diversity of skill levels when it comes to dancers in the program. As my D attended Tisch, and had more training in dance than in any other area prior to college, and I believe was a true triple threat, and she had many friends there who also came in with years of dance, that there is no way that nobody there can dance. That said, I must say that even though my kid came in with strong dance skills, now that she is a professional in the MT world, dance has been the least important skill she has had to use. She never will be a chorus member at 5’3" (nor does she care) and many shows are not even that dance heavy. Singing and acting skills have proved to be more essential, and are typically the first cut in an audition (if you are attending agent submitted auditions).
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I’m sorry but your numbers are not right. Where did you get these numbers? On the one hand, you mention a school has 2200 pre-screens to accept 30 students. Then on the other hand, all of a sudden, a non-prescreen school only auditions 1000? That is not true of NYU/Tisch. Why do you have them as having less than 50% of applicants than the other highly selective school? Further, their acceptance rate into NSB is not 10%. I have no idea where you came up with that these schools that are larger audition LESS applicants?? The actual math is that all the schools we are discussing have acceptance rates in the single digits to their MT programs.
I’m sorry, but again your math is not right. For starters, I don’t know where you are getting these numbers of how many come off the waitlist. Unless you have factual numbers, it is conjecture. Also waitlist movement at any particular schools varies from year to year. Further, even IF a program took 20 off a waitlist and another program took 3 off a waitlist doesn’t then follow that the odds are better at the program that took 20! That’s not how odds work mathematically. As an example, and not based on any certain schools, if one program has 100 students on a waitlist and 20 are offered admissions, that’s a 20% chance. If a school has 15 on a waitlist and 3 are offered admissions, that is a 20% chance.
First, you say it is NOT your opinion, and then you say not to take your opinion as the final word. But you have offered an opinion based on hearsay, not direct knowledge of the school. Your child doesn’t attend, you don’t work there, and your child hasn’t applied even. I’d put more stock in talking with those who attend or have attended or have had a kid attend. I am not an expert either, but my kid attended, and I am a college counselor who has had several students get accepted and attend Tisch as well. You are saying that it doesn’t offer challenging dance and that was not my kid’s experience and she danced 13 hours a week her entire life before attending Tisch. In fact, when she applied, there was an optional advanced dancer audition for the MT studio. I am sure there are less trained dancers at Tisch too but that is likely true of many of the fine programs out there. Yes, it is an expensive school! But in one post, you stated that they give “NO money” and I felt compelled to respond because that is not a true statement.
NYU/Tisch is not for everyone, which I would say about any college or program. However, I do believe it is well regarded in the industry and getting in for MT is extremely selective (single digit acceptance rate). As well, many of my kids’ peers she attended with are having tremendous success at the highest levels in the theater, TV/Film, and music worlds. In any case, it is not easier to get in there than most programs. Not only is the acceptance rate for MT extremely low (which is what the math is about, not size of class), but it is an academically very selective university and academics counts 50% of the admissions decision, and in this regard, is harder to get into than some other highly selective BFA programs where the academic component is not as selective and/or doesn’t count as much in the admissions decision.
Anyway, my point here is not to argue, but I know many people lurk and read these forums and accurate information can be beneficial or correcting inaccurate information can be too, as some of this discussion is not simply an opinion, but includes errors in facts , numbers, and/or is hearsay. I say this with respect.
@soozievt - honestly I don’t know how this conversation started but let’s just end it. I believe I was responding to somebody who was settling into a certain school because she assumer her D would not get into NYU and BOCO and she was interested in dance… I was just trying to say hey maybe you have a shot at those schools - and my d has a friend who doesn’t think the dance at NYU is good (this was a concern she expressed in another post) so just something she should look into.
But in fact, all these schools are highly selective - so much so that when a school accepts 50 and not 12 it seems like a lot of people get into the school. when a waitlist actually moves it seems like a lot people get off the waitlist - we are dealing with crazy numbers nobody outside of these forums understands. All of the schools are crazy competitive and none are easy to get into - and like another person just said that’s why our kids apply to 20-30 schools. So when a school has a 2% acceptance rate instead of a 1% - its “less selective” - it’s insane! Obviously, they are all insanely highly selective!
In terms of NYU and dance - I don’t know what to say - I passed on an opinion of a current student who wasn’t happy with the dance. This is a forum where we share information to help each other through the process - it’s not a court of law - with first-hand information, second-hand information and hearsay… I was sharing an opinion I heard - If somebody is interested in NYU they should look into this themselves - don’t just take this one student’s opinion. I do feel that the school is a high priced option and while I do not want to offend anyone - if dance is important take it for what you will and do your research.
@DivaStageMom, I agree with your advice to @Neensmom to wait and see all her results before making a final decision. And I don’t mind if you shared what you know of NYU through others. I replied because I felt compelled to correct inaccurate information on several things as I know people are reading to gather information and I had information between having a D attend the program at NYU and many of my clients have as well. Nothing more, nothing less. Indeed, people should do their research directly with the schools and programs, including current students and alumni. Please feel free to share, and I will too.
Re NYU- D is a freshman. I cannot speak to NSB since she is in an acting studio, but her financial aid package made NYU more affordable than an out-of-state public university she also liked. In addition, without appealing, she was awarded more aid second semester. We also completed an appeal letter and they more than doubled the second semester award. More importantly, D could not be happier at NYU. I am currently waiting to pick her up since classes have been moved online for a couple of weeks (and maybe for the semester). She is in a puddle. Best of luck to everyone this March!
Thank you for sharing, @yellahamma about your D’s experience. My D’s financial aid package at NYU was higher than all the other scholarships she received from her other BFA programs. I’m not saying this happens for everyone but it happened for your D and my D as well. So sorry about the school closure and online classes for all affected and it is particularly difficult for those who take these type of classes!!
